DPC Mentorship - Gig/Concert - DPChallenge Forums

07/13/2005 04:27:47 PM · #26

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

Sounds great!

Questions:

When you say set contrast and saturation to minimum in camera...I always have everything set to 0 (Adobe RGB)...are you suggesting I set it to -2?

Also, (I know this is jumping the gun, but) what is the market like for concert/band photographers right now? Do you find it tough out there? What are your best venues for sales? Just curious...

One more thing...would you mind sharing a few favourite photos that you've taken as well as a few 'perfect' photos that others have taken? What are some famous 'band/concert' photos that we could study?

If you feel I'm jumping the gun too much with these questions, let me know!

Unfortunately, I won't be able to shoot this weekend...but I'll catch up!

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Most definitely -2!
As far as the market goes, I'm still at the beginning of my professional career, but it is TOUGH! The competition is fierce! Bands are very reluctant to part with cash, so I'm thinking that my road in is via magazines and agencies. I just spoke to someone today from Getty images who was impressed with my work, so I'm very encouraged today!
I did a recent photoshoot in a small local venue a couple of weeks ago: you can see the results here: //www.EyesOpen.co.uk/BOR/Page0001.html
I did get paid for this one... tough conditions though. The lights weren't great and the band weren't up to their usual selves. This is the kind of photography though that we're looking to accomplish over the next few weeks before we move to this sort of thing:

However, sometimes it's easier... these shots were all taken in small local venues:

07/13/2005 05:14:16 PM · #27

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

One more thing...would you mind sharing a few favourite photos that you've taken as well as a few 'perfect' photos that others have taken? What are some famous 'band/concert' photos that we could study?

Forgot to mention... we'll look at other people's gig photography in the coming weeks as part of our assigments!

Message edited by author 2005-07-13 17:14:45.

07/13/2005 05:18:50 PM · #28

bob,

what do you mean by keep checking the histograms? I don't understand what you mean when you say leave some leeway in the higlights??..

I would like to shoot this summer in the park thing they are doing here in Carlisle with daniel bedding field and some other bands...
How should I approach the promoters? I would hate to show up with my camera and ready to shoot the action and be turned away...

07/13/2005 05:21:59 PM · #29

opps double posted...I am the dunce of the class toady

Message edited by author 2005-07-13 17:22:38.

07/13/2005 05:30:39 PM · #30

Originally posted by Anni:

Don't worry about the double post! :-)

Good article about histograms here: //www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/histograms1.htm
In gig photography, your histogram will usually look like the diagram for 'low key' and you want to avoid clipped highlights wherever possible. This is a huge topic that we will spend more time on, but don't be afraid to ask any questions that the article raises. You need to find out how to show the histogram on your D70 on photos you have already taken.
As far as a photographer's pass goes for your Summer in the Park event, I will say that it's very difficult if not impossible to get a pass unless you are affiliated with some sort of publication. Over the coming weeks, we will discuss how to find publications to work with so you can get these elusive passes. I can only speak personally, and that's how I did it. If you want the bigger concerts, you need to work for bigger publications and so on. You can sometimes blag it if you go as a freelancer, but this is pretty rare and I say it's much better to be patient and give everybody genuine credentials. There are so many photographers who want access to the pit, promoters are becoming much more careful who they give passes to.

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

07/13/2005 05:35:40 PM · #31

Just a follow on from my last post... in most situations in life where you want something, you have to ask yourself what you're offering in return. If you want a pass to any kind of gig, you have to offer something to whoever is letting you in. If you're going to a large gig with big-name performers, there has to be a reason for you to be there. If your photos aren't going to get published, there's no reason for you to be let in. If you can think of a compelling reason for them to let you in, try it! It's all about publicity, and if you can prove you'll improve their publicity they'll let you in.

Joey Lawrence

PhaseOne P45

07/14/2005 01:24:15 AM · #32

Hey Bob
Thanks for the great tips
For other point and shoot people, I've found I HAVE to use my flash to get a fast shutterspeed in dark performance places. I did the following pictures with tapeing a small peice of standard white paper to my flash:

Of course, it was only a small, local place so I had the chance to ask the band first. There were no extravagant lights at the concert but the white paper did the trick. It didn't blind the performers and it kept the mood of the dimly lit theatre. I could then just bump up the contrast and work a bit with the levels in PS to get rid of the flatness the paper caused. (As well as other editing in certain images ;-p )

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

07/14/2005 05:04:08 AM · #33

Joey, I checked out your camera and you seem to have a bit of a blessing and a curse there!
Once upon a time it was a very nice bit of kit, a professional tool going for $1300. Good quality glass, and it looks the business as well. Shame that it's weaknesses were shooting in low-light and a total lack of manual settings. At least it has spot-metering, which I'm assuming you've been using? Focusing in low-light seems to be one of it's biggest weaknesses, so well done for the shots you've got so far! I guess there's not much more you can do to push the limits of that camera, so we'll just have to work on improving your portfolio and composition.
The reason why your gig shots have worked so well is that you keep everything simple... you have the performer in the shot but very little else to distract the eye. Your timing is also good, it's obvious that you've caught some good chemistry in your shots. However, in all 3 of the shots you posted you've cropped off hands... I catch myself doing this every now and then but you MUST guard against this. Hands are one of the most expressive parts of a performer, and it does jar when they are inadvertantly cropped off or chopped in half. You need lightning quick reflexes for this, but it helps if you bear it in mind. Did you grab many shots of the other members of the band in that gig? Also, I think we can forgive your zoom blur in PS given the limitations of your camera, and it does look very effective. All of us with DSLRs must try this effect in-camera!

A note for all the group... I just want to clarify the first assignment. It was a long post, but the overal gist is that I would like you all to investigate your local small music venues, approach them and start using that venue to build your portfolio. Hopefully by the end of the weekend! Please don't start getting too ambitious just yet... if you want to shoot the the big names you must be patient. As I mentioned, the first step is to find a publication. To do that, you need a good portfolio. Let's take it a step at a time. Your enthusiasm and passion must be harnessed!

Fleximus

Canon EOS-50D

07/14/2005 05:11:19 AM · #34

Good pics Joey and a good point about the hands Bob.

I am creating a folder in my portfolio to put my images in. I will start by putting a few of my previous images in there.

07/14/2005 07:51:51 AM · #35

Great pics Joey! Looks like you have made a grand start.

I am really excited..I phoned the promoters for a event comming up in august and said I was a freelance portrit photographer looking to break into event photography. I got a pass to the pit! Of course I said that she could have first pick of my photos at no charge to promote or do what she liked with them. She is wanting to see my porfolio so far with the fee I usually charge for an event. She says that they are always looking for good event photographers, expecially local ones.

Soo what to do now. I have no idea how much to charge for the future.

I don't have to worry too much about lighting too much because it is outdoors during the day...

eeekk help.

07/14/2005 08:18:14 AM · #36

Originally posted by Anni:

Excellent news, is that for the gig you mentioned earlier? Honesty is always the best policy, and it's good that you were straight up with the promoters. how are you showing your portfolio? Do you have a website? As far as cost goes, are you based in the UK? Surely lighting has to be an issue... even during the day most events will use some lighting otherwise they look awful. What kind of music is it? Anyone big? Congrats though!

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

07/14/2005 12:28:33 PM · #37

I picked up a copy of 'Digital Photographer' today, which I recommend to everyone in this group (UK only). There's an article about gig photography, focusing on festivals... the advice is pretty consistent with what I've been advising, I'm glad to say!
I'll sum the article up here:
Go to festivals, you'll have loads of photos you won't get anywhere else. Make sure you have plenty of storage.
The pit is really tough to get into, Glastonbury get over a thousand applications (and I got one, woohoo!). If you don't have a pass to the pit, shoot the less popular bands earlier in the day by the front barrier (I told you so!). Many of the pros started off this way (I was doing this last year, and is how I got my passes for this year).
Don't shoot right in front of the performers, the mike will get in the way of the face. Empathise with the music, think about how your photos reflect the energy of the music. For example, go in close for jazz, use wide-angle and get in close for rock.
Don't shoot the obvious stuff, find the quirky stuff for your reportage shots. Dusk is the worst time for bands, unless you're on the stage and can catch the sky.
The article goes on to say that you should do anything for the right shot, describing how he evades security to get on stage, but you'll see lots of conflicting advice on this. You may want to go back next year, so be careful who you upset.
If you want to go pro, it's up to you to contact picture editors but this is extremely competitive and you need a lot of perseverance and tenacity. It doesn't pay a lot, about Â£150 plus minimal expenses (I thought it would become more... damn!).
Don't do it for the glamour, do it for passion. Discover new bands. More and more people are doing it now, discover what makes you different.

So, not much different to my advice folks!
I've had a look through some of this group's portfolios and there are some great photographers here! I am going to emphasise though that I will not encourage anyone to rush ahead... I did get myself into photographers' pits last year but in hindsight I should really have waited until I was really ready for those opportunities.
Also think about all the local bands in your area who really need help with their image... they could be the big bands of tomorrow. The music business is all about image, and your photos could REALLY help your local community. I really get a kick out of working at a grassroots level in my community, and your work can become highly appreciated. I'd love to use this group as motivation for you to all work at a local level helping the bands that are starting out. There's loads of excitement and enthusiasm there, and you may end up making lots of new friends. At the very least, you're putting something into your community which is becoming rarer in today's culture.

But if there are any large music festivals in your area, GO! Make sure your insurance is good though and check the fine-print.

RobotBanjo

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

07/14/2005 12:30:45 PM · #38

Ah, sorry everyone! I really am part of this :) I was just out of town. I here's my information (sorry it's soooooo late)-
Canon EOS 20D
Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM
Canon EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 III
Please excuse anything stupid I say or do, I'm REALLY niave when it comes to technical jibberish! ;) Glad to be on the team, though, I've learned a million and half things already.
I'm going to some concerts later this weekend, hope to get some pics!

Sigma 28-105mm f/2.8-4.0 Aspherical for Canon

07/14/2005 12:34:02 PM · #39

Originally posted by NightShy:

No probs, I would really like people to speak up even if they think it's a daft question... I want to be as supportive as possible and I'm sure everyone here feels the same way.
What concerts are you going to? Are they small or large? (I hope they're small, as you may all have gathered I'm trying to build things up slowly! It's also very hard to get good shots at a large gig as part of the crowd)

Rooster

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

07/14/2005 12:53:09 PM · #40

Originally posted by BobsterLobster:

Hi Rooster,
I've never come across a Sigma 22-200mm lens... f2.8 implies it's fixed aperture... sounds like a lens that everybody would kill for if it was any good. I've Googled it and not come up with anything, can you post a link to the lens specs somewhere?
BTW, may I suggest that everyone modifies this thread settings so they can watch it or have email alerts when it's updated?

sure. gonna have to be later 2nite when I'm at home. Mighta left out some specs tho on it... perhaps. Will get the link out to this group asap.
peace

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/14/2005 01:43:38 PM · #41

I just had a pm from a member here asking about finding a suitable venue, so I thought I'd put part of my response here:

I'm definitely talking about bars/pubs rather than outdoor venues.
Go for a walk in your local neighbourhood where I'm presuming you have some bars/pubs and see if there are regular gigs at any of them. Like I said in the thread, favour those that have a lighting rig for the performers, but stay with small bars. Go in and have a chat with some of the staff/owners if you're having difficulties.... you never know, they might need photography for other reasons! When you find a suitable venue, speak with whoever is responsible for hiring the bands and promoting the gigs, and offer your photos in return for free admission. You may want to get a business card done with a link to your website to hand out. Gigs should also be listed in your local newspapers, and you should buy them on a regular basis to see what events are happening in your area, such as small local music festivals which are unmissable for any photographer. There are often forums on the internet for musicians from your local region, do some Googling and see if you can find any of these forums. Get chatting and post your photos which should create a bit of a buzz and start earning you some money through commissions (but bands are not as generous with photographers as they are with musical instrument shops!). You'll also get a feel for the up-and-coming bands to watch for and the venues to go to.
I'm not sure about other countries, but in the UK you're never far from some kind of venue where bands play, even (especially!) in the middle of God-forsaken countryside. Perhaps America might be different, and you may have to go to a busier area to catch some live music.

Let us know how you all do!

Edit: Pretend you're a musician and you're looking for a band to play with in your area. Where do you go? What do you do? Or pretend you have a band and want to play... what do you do next?

Message edited by author 2005-07-14 13:44:50.

gaurawa

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

07/14/2005 02:08:09 PM · #42

Thanks Bob for all this information.
I have another question. When you said we should carry a business card, should the card be designed with some sort of gig. photo ? or will any other photo do ? By any other I mean portrait/still life ?

07/14/2005 02:17:12 PM · #43

To be honest, I really think this is your judgement call. I would personally use a card with a portrait on it, which covers most situations. You've got some lovely people shots on your photo-a-day website, but none on your website! I'd get a people category on your website and use one of those. Or you could use your night-time SF shot. But really, your photography is so strong that you have so many choices here. Anyone else have any opinions on this one?
The card isn't essential though... I've not used one yet. But there are times when I wished I'd had one.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

07/14/2005 02:35:16 PM · #44

Originally posted by BobsterLobster:

Originally posted by Anni:
Great pics Joey! Looks like you have made a grand start.

I am really excited..I phoned the promoters for a event comming up in august and said I was a freelance portrit photographer looking to break into event photography. I got a pass to the pit! Of course I said that she could have first pick of my photos at no charge to promote or do what she liked with them. She is wanting to see my porfolio so far with the fee I usually charge for an event. She says that they are always looking for good event photographers, expecially local ones.

Soo what to do now. I have no idea how much to charge for the future.

I don't have to worry too much about lighting too much because it is outdoors during the day...

eeekk help.

Excellent news, is that for the gig you mentioned earlier? Honesty is always the best policy, and it's good that you were straight up with the promoters. how are you showing your portfolio? Do you have a website? As far as cost goes, are you based in the UK? Surely lighting has to be an issue... even during the day most events will use some lighting otherwise they look awful. What kind of music is it? Anyone big? Congrats though!

I am going to show the promoter what I have on my porfolio here. I don't have a portfolio anywhere else. Maybe someone could suggest somewhere that may look a bit more professional. The council and the newspaper is promoting this event so it is no big promoter, but I am sure if she likes what she sees from this gig, they will want to use me.

Yes I am based in the UK. I asked a photographer friend in the US what she charges for events and she says that she puts in proposals for events.

Ummm...I only know a few names on the bill the main headliners are: Daniell Beddingfield and Girls Allowed.(where do you buy earplugs again? heh)

When I said that I wasn't worried about the lighting, what I ment was that I am not concerned about low lighting which you would get from an indoor venue or night time show. I would suspect would be a tad bit more difficult than in midday.

I m going to take in all I can before AUG 7 and hope that I do a good job...

Message edited by author 2005-07-14 14:35:48.

colda

Nikon D800

07/14/2005 02:45:35 PM · #45

Originally posted by BobsterLobster:

Edit: Pretend you're a musician and you're looking for a band to play with in your area. Where do you go? What do you do? Or pretend you have a band and want to play... what do you do next?

If you want to hook up with a local band go to some rehersal studios and look at the notice boards, I used to manage a band, we would have jumped at the idea of a photog that would have supported us and given some freebies.

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

07/14/2005 02:51:04 PM · #46

I am now wondering if Gig photography is the right thing for me. My husband and I are not keen on the bars and pubs around here filled with northern chav scum. (red necks if you are american). I also have a two year old son so I can not get out to pubs and clubs on a regular basis. I know I wouldn't be there to hang out with the punters but I would still feel uncomfortable going to these venues by myself. I am only 5'3 and would have very expensive equipment as well.

As for being in the pit at this pop in the park thing.I know I am not ready for it. I know there is no way to even prepare for it. I have experience of what limits I can push my cam to and what it can do, but never with special lighting in a fast paced environment being elbowed by the pros.

I say all this, yet I am excited by all the possibilites that it can bring...my god my 2 loves music and photography could I even ask for anything more...oh yeah you get paid for it as well!!??

anyway don't want to bring the mood down I am just a bit nervous.

RobotBanjo

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

07/14/2005 02:51:41 PM · #47

Originally posted by BobsterLobster:

What concerts are you going to? Are they small or large? (I hope they're small, as you may all have gathered I'm trying to build things up slowly! It's also very hard to get good shots at a large gig as part of the crowd)

They are very intimate and small, just locals at a small cafe.
I'm going to shoot a bit at my brother's band practice, too. Would that be a good idea or no?

07/14/2005 02:58:30 PM · #48

Good God, you have a really huge break here, I had a look at the event here: //www.carlisle.gov.uk/carlislecc/main.asp?page=937
Is there any way you can beg, borrow or steal a 70-200mm F2.8?
I contact councils and newspapers all the time for events such as this one, and it's usually like knocking your head against the wall. You really want to grab this opportunity.
IMO, you must get a decent website together ASAP... a DPC portfolio is just not professional enough. I'll have a think about how you can do this quickly and cheaply. Have a think about what you would put in your portfolio... limit it to about 15 photos at the most. Are there more photos that you haven't uploaded? What I don't understand is why the newspaper aren't pushing their own photographer? Although the stage will be well lit, I'd still be very nervous with your current equipment, the D70 is very noisy at high ISOs, and you don't have fast glass. You may be lucky if the lighting is very bright, but sometimes I struggle at ISO1600/3200 keeping the shutter speeds down to 1/125. And this is during daylight. Midday is actually quite a tough time to shoot, as the outdoor stage will be covered very well in the eventuality of rain, and the lights won't show up as well as they do when it's dark... in fact you can get your shutter speeds faster at night when the lights are brighter. Are you in the market for a new lens right now?
Well done on getting a good break though,
Bob

Edit... forgot to mention that Â£150 for 1/2 day is usually a good rate, not cheap not expensive. That's why I was surprised when I saw this is what the top pros get paid.

Message edited by author 2005-07-14 15:02:45.

07/14/2005 03:01:22 PM · #49

Originally posted by NightShy:

Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
What concerts are you going to? Are they small or large? (I hope they're small, as you may all have gathered I'm trying to build things up slowly! It's also very hard to get good shots at a large gig as part of the crowd)

They are very intimate and small, just locals at a small cafe.
I'm going to shoot a bit at my brother's band practice, too. Would that be a good idea or no?

The gigs sound ideal! Band practices are really tough though... lighting is what makes for good band photos, and rehearsal rooms usually look awful made worse by very poor light. It might be a good time to start experimenting with bouncing flash though, and catching the right moment.