Helpful comments - I don't get it.

08/18/2005 03:33:49 PM · #1

My absolute fave in the Time Capsule was "1957" by KaDi. ( I could spend lots of time explaining why).
It barely made the top 50!
What I don't get is, 21 people voted that it was a bad photo. Aren't you supposed to comment if you vote "Bad Photo"?[

Message edited by author 2005-08-18 15:51:35.

SandyP

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF 200mm f/2.8 USM

08/18/2005 03:40:06 PM · #2

Ooooooh. . . you are so right! That picture is awesome! Somehow I missed that one when I was voting!

My opinion of why too many other people didn't share our views on that picture was because I've noticed that only in very rare instances do dpc voters give high scores to high key pictures. There are exceptions, but generally, they don't do that well. I love that picture, and I personally think the high key adds to the effect of that era, kind of like the neon diner or something.

You think that could be it??????

Olympus 50mm f/1.8 MF Normal Zuiko

08/18/2005 05:07:27 PM · #3

I guess.

Voting takes a lot of time and effort. If something isn't immediately appealing, it may get passed over or judged quickly. There are a lot of subtle things in that pic.
Is it better to try and assess some of the pics carefully than to do them all poorly?

emorgan49

Olympus E-5

08/18/2005 06:41:06 PM · #4

Olympus 17mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko

08/18/2005 07:00:14 PM · #5

For discussion:
Here's the re-sized "original"

Here's the context of the car show

I was interested to see the variety of responses during the challenge to this photo--a sort of love it/hate it thing.

I would welcome discussion on any or all of the following:
1. Comments - what more could some of the people have said than "over bright"?
2. Processing - Basic challenge rules altered how I might have processed this and led me to a personal discovery. What would you have done differently using either Basic or Advanced rules?
3. Shooting - Challenging light conditions and not much prep time. What would you suggest to be better prepared or get better results given similar circumstances?

I have entered (and commented or not) on enough challenges to think that 30 comments is great! I was flattered my photo evoked such a response. I know that one gleans what one can from what is offered--and I have learned much here.

I offer my image up for discussion because I think it would be a fine practice ground for discussion of how we can improve as commenters and comment receivers. (Plus, I've only posted a challenge photo once a long time ago for discussion in the forums--I'm braver, now.)

ubique

Olympus PEN-F

08/18/2005 07:01:32 PM · #6

Originally posted by emorgan49:

It's a very bold and effective image in my view, and deserved better than some of the obviously UNhelpful comments it got.

charmayne

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

08/18/2005 07:25:42 PM · #7

I'm only one vote and certainly everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I loved this image! Thanks for posting the original as it does look like difficult basic rule post processing. I would be interested in any comments from the experts as to how this could have been better exposed originally, or better edited afterwards. I do, however, like the result and think you created a fantastic image!

08/18/2005 08:43:18 PM · #8

What to do differently? - Nothing.

10 reasons:
- the overexposure is like a memory... we don't remember lots of details
- chrome, two tone paint, and fins...thats 1957 to me - no details needed
- MM, silkscreen effect Andy Warhol...pulling us back to 1957 through the sixties
- "MM" is a manican...she was a doll!
- the guy is half 'out of the picture' ...aren't we all?
- the guy looks like he's from a different planet...
- the guy's colour is reflected in MM's face...its her makeup, its an illusion - thats what makeup is.
- he looks a bit confused...will he ever really be part of this picture?
- the lips and the car roof
- the 'expression' on MM's face...this is not a 21st century woman.

Further processing might lose some of these effects.

I'm not obsessed, I just thought this was much better than many that were voted above it.

Ken

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

08/19/2005 06:48:22 AM · #9

Bump.

(Is everyone all talked out?)

mandyturner

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

08/19/2005 07:05:13 AM · #10

I liked it! I love high key and I think that this picture is great!

Bud

Canon EOS-550D Rebel T2i

Sigma 18-250 f/3.5 - 6.3 DC OS HSM

08/19/2005 07:12:32 AM · #11

KaDi,

Great photo... Not to oversimplify, but you can not please all the people all of the time. I think you did a terrific job with what you had to work with. Some of the issues raised about your photo are personal preference issues. The thing about photography is they tell you to learn all the rules and then they tell you not to be restricted by them:)

Great job, great photo, it deserved a higher score IMHO.

Keep up the good work.

Firsty

Fujifilm X-E1

Fujifilm XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 OIS

08/19/2005 07:39:13 AM · #12

just had a quick play with the small orignal you posted

used highlight/shadow adjustment (not sure if this allowed in the basic rules)
then used hue/saturation bumped up red and magenta and lowered green
incressed contrast with USM
then slight sharpening with usm
and saved

this is adifferent take on your shot, But I still like your entry a lot

Olympus 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6 Zuiko Digital ED

08/20/2005 09:51:32 AM · #13

Awesome!

This would have scored higher, but I like the entry better.

bcoble

Olympus E-300 EVOLT

08/20/2005 10:10:17 AM · #14

Originally posted by Firsty:

just had a quick play with the small orignal you posted

used highlight/shadow adjustment (not sure if this allowed in the basic rules)
then used hue/saturation bumped up red and magenta and lowered green
incressed contrast with USM
then slight sharpening with usm
and saved

this is adifferent take on your shot, But I still like your entry a lot

I did not vote in this challenge however I totally agree with what Firsty did with the photo. I like that version better.

TooCool

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

08/20/2005 10:32:19 AM · #15

But 6 people did comment on why they didn't like the shot. I was gonna add a comment to the shot too but KaDi wouldn't have checked it off as helpfull so I didn't bother. When I looked at the title of this thread I figured that was what the thread was all about. I don't get it...

Message edited by author 2005-08-20 10:33:16.

coolhar

08/20/2005 12:37:30 PM · #16

From your context photo I can see that the car is a Pontiac Star Chief, not a Chevy as indicated in the Photogrpaher's Comments. But no biggie because the portion shown in your cropped entry was virtually identical across several GM brands, could have just as easily been a Buick or and Olds.

conglett

Nikon D70

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

08/20/2005 01:03:25 PM · #17

For some reason voters have a real aversion to overblown parts of an image. I submitted an image for the minimalism challenge that had small overblown parts, which I thought actually added to the effect.

Not that I would have changed it, I like it the way it is. I think there are appropriate uses for blowing it out from time to time. :-)

I like the effect of KaDi's processed image over the original - it gives it edge.

08/20/2005 01:28:03 PM · #18

Originally posted by TooCool:

Please note that I didn't start this thread.
Also, I don't consider the statement "too bright" to be helpful....if someone indicated why they thought the brightness detracted or offered a suggestion about how to process differently I checked the comment as helpful.
Why do I check "nice shot" as helpful then? Because it makes me feel good.

TooCool

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

08/20/2005 02:14:20 PM · #19

I'm sorry KaDi, let me elaborate as I didn't mean this to be about you but about a response to commenting.

[MHO]
The original poster pointed out that 22 people didn't like your photograph and did not comment as to why. When I look at your comments recieved there are 6 people at least that DID point out why they didn't like your shot. Now if one of these 6 people see this thread and feel like they were brushed off by the OP, maybe next time they won't even bother to comment at all. Also if one of these 6 people see that you didn't bother to check off their comment as usefull but did check off 'nice shot' as useful they may not bother to comment next time.

Too bright is a valid observation. They didn't offer up suggestions, but they did let you know what they didn't like about the shot. Nice shot is also a valid observation and equally not as useful. Why is it a nice shot? They didn't offer any qualitative reasons. Personally I would and do appreciate both comments!

I believe that threads such as this are not really all that helpful as they don't entice people to comment. I believe they actually have the opposite effect.
[/MHO]

That's the point I was trying to make. I guess it got lost in the translation. :-)

Message edited by author 2005-08-20 14:16:16.

08/20/2005 02:47:26 PM · #20

TC,
Gotcha.

I'd like to say that I'm very happy with my comments. Watching the 30 comments roll in over the week impressed me. I think people are commenting more than they have before.

I also wouldn't have started this thread, but I did receive a PM from the person who did and told him I didn't mind. I had hoped that a fruitful discussion would ensue--my suggestions were posted in my first post to this thread.

As for discouraging people to comment, I'm unsure. When I first started visiting the site it took me awhile to learn how people comment and what type of comments are well received. I learned a lot of that from similar discussions in the forums.

I don't mean to discourage the folks who made simple statements from commenting. I would like them to consider the value of their comments and would also like to encourage them to say more. I usually leave such comments unchecked for about a week or so--then I go back and tick them so they don't have a bad ratio of comments made to comments helpful. All comments are helpful in some way--even if, as in this case, I know that several people found my image too bright for their tastes and were willing to say so. If those were the only comments I got, then I would have to re-consider my participation in the challenges.

(Also not usually ticked by me: fuzzy, OOF, too dark, too grainy....unless they come with other thoughts. After all, there's a big difference between "Too dark because I can't see detail in the shadows" or "Too dark because flowers should always look like the day is sunny and bright" or "Too dark. Who do you think you are, Joey Lawrence?")

One more thing, I really appreciate all those who have contributed their thought on this image. I didn't come looking for accolades, but have garnered them nontheless. I'm thick-skinned and will take the most severe comments in stride--if you've been holding out because other people liked this image and you're afraid to put your opinion forward, don't be. I, certainly, will not shoot you down.

{STORY} I took a writing class taught by a graduate student. She was having trouble getting students to critique their own and others work. So she had some overheads made of essays (some from our class and some from another) and projected them anonymously. The first one up was mine. The class was fairly silent--murmurs of "that's good" "I like the part about..." and "there appears to be a typo" Impulsively, I raised my hand and asked if I could be a little harsh--the teacher didn't give me away but tentatively said "sure." I started in ripping the subject, the arrangement of the argument, the word choice, the lack of logical flow, the sentence structure, and so on. I went on for a minute or two. The class was in shock! What sort of horrible creature was sitting in the room with them? Then I told them it was my essay and they were all just puzzled.

{MORAL}You need to be your own worst critic. You need to be prepared to hear the things that people say or think about your work or you'll never improve. Nothing is ever "finished" it's just set aside as you move on to other things.