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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Did not meet the challenge..
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Showing posts 76 - 93 of 93, (reverse)
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 01/05/2006 06:32:44 AM · #76
Bobby,
I for one do not think you should defend your pic, your intentions or anything. On the contrary, it is an awesome pic to say the least. What it did, and that is what it is all about, is it scored well. The voters, of which you had more than 400, decided the score and the high number of favorites. Let's face facts, we can learn from you how to take tiger pics(and more;-)).

I for one feel also if so many people complained DNMTC and yet you scored well, we should learn that in the eye of the voter, a great pic that may not(just for argument) meet the challenge, is valued higher than an average pic that clearly meets the challenge. And that is what photography is all about, taking great pics. We have guidelines and we have defintions and directives, these things may eventually close eyes for greatness just to embrace a fitting mediocrity. Almost every week we rape the challenge definition to screw "meaning" out of it but at the end it is everybody's right to submit what he likes and for the voters to vote on what they like.

Truely a great pic and excellent consistency in scoring well in the short time you have been on DPC.

Maybe I should try harder to find the magic formula, but in the mean time some of us can take this bitter pill.... ;-)(no promises!)
01/05/2006 07:43:27 AM · #77
Originally posted by sajin:
... If I recall correctly the brief was to photograph something gone wrong. Does 'the weather gone wrong' not apply? I thought it did. And yes, the good old tiger, expecting a nice sunny day to go out and bask, found itself in a snow shower - Oops - not what it was expecting. I rest my case!


So now your position has changed from when you made this comment approximately 24 hours ago on the image page?

Originally posted by sajin:
ok everyone...i know that meeting the challenge with this pic was a bit of a long shot...but...i got a great pic...and i wanted to share it with u



01/05/2006 07:48:32 AM · #78
emphasis on the word "bit"...it wasn't a classic oops, like stepping on a fresh turd or accidently dropping your christmas decoration...nevertheless i interpreted an unexpected change in the weather as a kind of oops...but anticipated that not all would agree with my interpretation or point of view...hence my comment
 01/05/2006 08:26:33 AM · #79
Ok. Got it...thanks.
 01/05/2006 09:06:23 AM · #80
Wow, it looks like the voters don't mind so much about DNMC.

I'm changing my voting habits now. If something doesn't meet the challenge in my eyes, it gets a one [1]. As a voter, I am the client, afterall. And the voter is always right.

Time for me to get off my wimpy 4 to 10 scale, lower my votes-given average and make my vote heard a little bit more.


01/05/2006 09:28:09 AM · #81
You could argue all of the ribbon winner's shots DNMC..Ooops implies a mistake, all are set-up..the ornament on a white background.where did it fall from? a beer in the air with a photographer's background and no feet or hands..where is the oops...now if I take this position should I be upset that there shots won? if there is no real attempt to make it really look like a mistake?
One of the dangers in this site is that scoring becomes more important than photography..I am not suggesting that people ignore the challenges, but if the connection isn't clear to you then vote it appropriately, but I don't think we should wake up the villagers and hang someone because the connection doesn't work for you.
Scoring high on this site is a popularity contest..Britney Spears is popular...porn is popular...Full House was popular..I keep this in mind every challenge...
 01/05/2006 10:49:50 AM · #82
Originally posted by bucket:

Scoring high on this site is a popularity contest..Britney Spears is popular...porn is popular...Full House was popular..I keep this in mind every challenge...


LOL - you've now ruined it for me, i never want to score high again. :P
 01/05/2006 12:05:40 PM · #83
If the challenges are to be kept challenging, the challenge must be met! But, my question is, how big of an issue is this? How many people do "keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly"?

Could we get a poll on this? That way we can see if it's a big enough problem to worry about.

For me, I saw the photo after the challenge, while commenting on another and saw the challenge met. It's not dead on, bang the viewer over the head met, but it is there. I would bet the poll would show a good percentage still keep the challenge topic in mind -- but were willing to see the connection here.

So, how about it? Can we have a poll on this?

David
 01/05/2006 12:23:19 PM · #84
This maybe should be in web site suggestions but here goes:

What if we had two lines under each picture.

First line: Technical Score
Second Line: Meets Challenge

The scores could be weighted as SC see's fit.
 01/05/2006 12:27:37 PM · #85
Originally posted by barndog:
This maybe should be in web site suggestions but here goes:

What if we had two lines under each picture.

First line: Technical Score
Second Line: Meets Challenge

The scores could be weighted as SC see's fit.


I suggested this before, and others did before me, and for some reason it garners next to no response..

I think that, is one of the few solutions
 01/05/2006 12:27:46 PM · #86
While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly.

This would imply the topic should be considered more than the quality of the photo or any other factor.

I think many voters do not follow this and that's the real issue here.
 01/05/2006 01:06:07 PM · #87
An issue that is not being discussed here, as far as I can see, is this: "Is 'meets the challenge' an on-off switch or a dimmer switch?'" As I see it, there are two ways of looking at it:

1. It meets the challenge; maybe in-your-face, maybe more elliptical or subtle, but it meets the challenge. Check that off and score the picture on its merits. If it does NOT meet the challenge in any way that satisfies you, score it 5-or-less (or whatever your system allows).

2. How "well" does it meet the challenge? A great picture that meets the challenge weakly (in your opinion) deserves a lower score than an average picture that meets the challenge head-on.

As I see it, approach one fosters more "creative" photography, approach two encourages more literal, less-risky photography. It would seem that DPC voters as a whole favor the second appraoch. In other words, each voter has a comfort zone in a given challenge, and the best-scoring images are the ones that overlap the most comfort zones. The end result is that there's a tendency (not an absolute one) for high-scoring images to repeat the same themes and approaches over and over again, whether because they have proven to do well in the past so shooters consciously incorporate them into their images, or because the voters simply gravitate towards the tried-and-true.

I tend to fall in the first camp; when I have satisfied myself that an image DOES have a challenge connection, I vote on photographic and artistic merit. I will sometimes give a "bonus" for extraorinarily deft/original handling of the topic, but I don't "deduct" for a weak connection; I'm painfully aware that what seems weak to me may be obvious to someone else, and I give the benefit of the doubt.

Robt.
 01/05/2006 01:16:35 PM · #88
Originally posted by Megatherian:
While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly.

This would imply the topic should be considered more than the quality of the photo or any other factor.

I think many voters do not follow this and that's the real issue here.


Id have to disagree with you there, I think most voters do follow that but why should the topic overshadow great photography. I like Bear's #1 way of looking at it. If I deem that it meets the challenge I usually take away my presumption of how well it does and then vote on the pic. Of course that being said, the ones that are great AND meet the challenge perfectly are going to get the better scores from me.
 01/05/2006 01:25:53 PM · #89
well it's a tough job, but I guess I'll do it... I'll go through the challenges before anyone votes and pull all the ones I don't think meet the challenge and then you all can vote on the left overs. Since we can't all agree on what DNMC is I guess you'll all just have to take MY opinion on it :þ
 01/05/2006 07:32:13 PM · #90
Originally posted by Megatherian:
well it's a tough job, but I guess I'll do it... I'll go through the challenges before anyone votes and pull all the ones I don't think meet the challenge and then you all can vote on the left overs. Since we can't all agree on what DNMC is I guess you'll all just have to take MY opinion on it :þ

and if you do a lousy job, we can always tar and feather you *g*
 01/07/2006 04:49:22 AM · #91
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
When I have satisfied myself that an image DOES have a challenge connection, I vote on photographic and artistic merit. I will sometimes give a "bonus" for extraorinarily deft/original handling of the topic, but I don't "deduct" for a weak connection;

Nice and sensible. I think a lot of people don't really do that or they find it difficult to decide how to structure their vote ... or are just plain in a hurry. One of the best threads I ever saw on this was this one which suggested a two vote system. One vote for the photography and one vote for the challenge. Yes, there's a lot of coding work to do it, but as a concept, I've not seen better.

In simple terms, there would be 2 voting boxes, 1 for Meeting Challenge the other for Photographic Merit. Your challenge score would be the average but the stats would report all three values so you can see what the voters really thought about your submission. You would start to see a pattern in your results, whether it is "meets challenges but unexciting photography" or "great pic but DNMC". All the guessing is gone.

It's about providing a tool for the voter to make that determination between good shot and does/doesn't meet challenge easier. It makes assessment and therefore voting faster and more accurate - with the substantial bonus of providing feedback to the photographer which the current system doesn't do.

The current system leaves the photographer in a void without any feedback on what they need to do to improve. We know that the level of comments is way too low to do that. Gosh, it might even stop all the anguished DNMC threads.

Oh, then what would we do?

Brett
 01/07/2006 08:25:26 AM · #92
Originally posted by KiwiPix:
In simple terms, there would be 2 voting boxes, 1 for Meeting Challenge the other for Photographic Merit. Your challenge score would be the average but the stats would report all three values so you can see what the voters really thought about your submission. You would start to see a pattern in your results, whether it is "meets challenges but unexciting photography" or "great pic but DNMC". All the guessing is gone. ...


IMHO, those that submit a "pretty" picture and shoehorn it into a challenge are NOT going to be surprised by DNMC. They already know it is a stretch, if it fits at all.

A double voting system will just add more chaos and confusion...I can see the forums really lighting up then. "What do they mean DNMC?" or "Why did people score this so high on DNMC?" or "Does a 10 on DNMC mean I still like the image...does a 10 mean, etc...".

No matter what you do, the interpretation of a challenge is going to remain subjective and what meets the challenge for some will be questionable to others.

The blatant DNMC entries are usually easy to spot. Example, for the 'Mammals' challenge a beautiful sunset or gorgeous flower shot are submitted. Unfortunately, even in those strong DNMC scenarios I would wager the sunset pic (if truly a wonderful image) would still place highly. Dual-vote system or not, it wouldn't make things any clearer.
 01/07/2006 09:10:07 AM · #93
It's a fabulous image and the title could have been:

"OOOPS I Entered This In the Wrong Challenge"

:)))
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