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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Four DSLR's ! Which one is the best???
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 02/15/2006 08:05:58 PM · #26
Originally posted by Mephisto:

wooow 460 Eur!!! is it possible to buy a camera in the us via internet and then "import" it to europe???
looks like the us prices are sooo much lower then here in europe!!!


isn't bazz in Australia?
 02/15/2006 08:08:41 PM · #27
Originally posted by wavelength:
Originally posted by Mephisto:

wooow 460 Eur!!! is it possible to buy a camera in the us via internet and then "import" it to europe???
looks like the us prices are sooo much lower then here in europe!!!


isn't bazz in Australia?


ooops you're right *g*

but i guess it's nearly the same in the us, isn't it?
 02/15/2006 08:09:47 PM · #28
Originally posted by jdw91479:
If your not really looking to upgrade on the glass for awhile you may want to check out the Olympus e-500 or e-300. They just released press about the e-330 so the prices of the other two will probably drop quite a bit. They are on a different system for glass (four thirds mount) though, so right now there aren't many options and the ones that are out there are quite expensive. I got my e-300 with two lenses off eBay for about $610 usd.


Agreed, I wouldn't rule out Olympus

Also you might want to take a look at the Fuji Finepix S2 Pro (takes Nikon lenses)

IMO it's all about what feels right to you. I've owned Nikon and Canon equipment (let's not argue what level) and ultimately I use Nikon because it feels right in my hands and the button / knob placements just work for me. You just won't know if they are right for you intil you hold them. Picture quality wise though I don't think you'll have much to complain about with any of the cameras mentioned in this thread.

Personally I found it useful to look at the camera profiles on this site to see what other people have done with the cameras. It'll give you a good idea of the kinds of shots they are really capable of.
 02/15/2006 08:11:15 PM · #29
If your shooting for fun, just pick what's in your budget and feels good in your hands.
 02/15/2006 08:19:16 PM · #30
DIWA announced (several days ago) that they have selected the Nikon D50 as the "best of the best" digital camera system, giving the D50 the Platinum Award. See Steve's Digicams for details and other recipients.
 02/15/2006 08:38:08 PM · #31
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
If your shooting for fun, just pick what's in your budget and feels good in your hands.


About the best advice I have seen here yet. If its a hooby then hold them each, take a few shots and pick one. If you plan on going pro then your better off sticking with Nikon or Canon.

For me I wish the Minolta 7D had been out when I bought. Although I love the Nikon glass I'm able to buy the anti-shake feature being in the camera is pretty attractive.
 02/15/2006 09:13:10 PM · #32
It was the best advice that I was given not too long ago, and it can't be said enough. IF you can, try out ALL the cameras you're considering....if just to hold them in your hands.

For me, the Canon didn't feel comfortable...but tons of people have it! It's just a preference.

My dad shoots a Nikon D70, which I really liked but it was pricey (for me) and the controls were not as intuitive (IMO).

Seriously considered the Oly E500...fabulous price with two kit lenses. It was really tempting and felt good in my hands.

Ended up finding a better deal (luck of the draw!) on the Minolta 5D and really like the Anti-Shake as I don't like to lug a tripod around all over and most of my shooting is NOT studio set ups. Mostly outdoors or around the house stuffs. Liked the feel of it in my hands too.

It HAS to feel comfortable...you'll spend a LOT of time with it in front of your face ;-) Especially the first few months!! But the second important thing to me was intuitive controls. I didn't want to have to read the manual 80 times...it's hard enough switching to a DSLR as it is!! hehehehe.

Best of luck in your search! The right camera is out there waiting for you!!!
 02/15/2006 09:43:29 PM · #33
Two things - I was deciding 14 months ago between nikon D70 or canon rebel - the rebel one on several points, price being one. So i can understand you're not considering the rebel if it is the most expensive.

PMA is later this month, 2 weeks. Canon is going to announce many new things - one is a rumoured 3000D digital SLR for $500. Depending on what is announced prices on current cameras (all brands) may drop when the new stuff is announced - so sit tight for 2 weeks!
 02/15/2006 09:45:29 PM · #34
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
PMA is later this month, 2 weeks.......

I'm so going! Friend has a friend who is a cannon rep. Says its a must see. :)
 02/15/2006 10:20:24 PM · #35
Originally posted by Mephisto:
I'm going to buy a dslr soon, but wanna wait until summer (money issue ;/).i found four affordable quotations on ebay and now i'm just interested, which one affords the best price/performance ratio? just hope of your experience ;P

1) Nikon d50 with 18-50mm lense and 1gb kingston sd for 619 EUR

2) Konica / Minolta Dynax 5D with 18-70mm+1GB Kingston for 669 EUR

3) Pentax ist DL DA with 3,5-5,6/18-55mm for 665 EUR

4) PENTAX *ist DS with AF 18-55/3,5-5,6DA for 759 EUR


Trying to get back to the original poster.

If summer is when you are buying you should just concentrate on trying different cameras whenever you can. You will definitely prefer one by the feel of it. So many new things may be out by then!

For me..I really like the underdog and like some of the technology offered by camera makers OTHER than Canon and Nikon...

However...

I am a practical buyer and realized that Canon and Nikon offer the widest range in overall systems...meaning lens, flash, and technology upgrades.

Just to underscore how important trying cameras out is....

I was all set to buy the Canon 1ds Mark II. I had saved about $10,000 over 2 years for a pro system. BUT... I had only shot with the Canon 1Ds and the Nikon D1x but the Nikon did not have big enough files and some other issues. I thought....Canon..here I come.

THEN I started another job where they had the new Nikon D2x. I was given this camera to use for a weekend assignment and WOAH!!! It just fit. I mean...in 15 minutes I had great control and the camera just felt right.

When I came home and downloaded some of the files I had...they looked great! I was impressed and confused at the same time. What do I do. I was planning to get the Canon but..the Nikon just felt better.

I tried the Nikon D2x several more times just to be sure and...well, obviously by my sig you see what I did. I dropped my camera savings on the Nikon system...but...I would probably be shooting Canon if I had not had the chance to work with the Nikon beforehand.

DSLR purchases are big deals. You are buying into a company as much as a camera. Bobster makes a great case for his choice. Brent makes a good one for him. Obviously several other users have made their decisions.

I just like taking photos and having the equipment that works for me...that is the best way to feel good about your purchase long term. It's hard to make a bad DSLR decision on technology alone...all the brands you are looking at will take photos better than what 95% of the general poulation will ever need.... but you can make a bad fit and feel decision.

Hope this helps some :-D

Message edited by author 2006-02-15 22:22:07.
 02/15/2006 11:24:30 PM · #36
Originally posted by Artyste:
You can't go wrong with any one of these cameras.

The DS being the highest priced kind of surprises me though.. but that's europe for you, Pentax has always been over-priced over there.

For me, having no former lenses or anything putting me on one brand, I would put the cameras in this order:

D50 - Fantastic lens line up, wonderful quality, great build, and easy to find accessories for worldwide.

Pentax Ds - Some of the best lenses ever made, full backwards-compatibility with old lenses going back decades, brightest non-pro viewfinder on the market, solid build.

KM 5D - Anti-shake is pretty cool, but can eat up battery power and heat up the sensor, causing added noise if used too often. Great image quality. Lens mount uncertain right now, but Sony could do good things.

Pentax DL - As entry level as you can get for a dSLR, but has all the added bonuses of the DS, just fewer options. Viewfinder not as bright.


I heard the Pentax DL2 won't be available in Europe. Weird.
 02/16/2006 01:04:08 AM · #37
Originally posted by idnic:
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
PMA is later this month, 2 weeks.......

I'm so going! Friend has a friend who is a cannon rep. Says its a must see. :)


PMA or the new canon? The 35D (it's rumoured name) is soooo gonna be be mine! $1500 I assume... i hope. A 2gb card and a strap. A new bag too maybe, but that can wait. I hope it uses the 511 battery, or i need to get 2 more of them too. I'm not made of money, just like to spend it LOL

One reason in favor of canon is a wide range of dSLR bodies, and new ones quite often so the upgrade path (via new or used) is there.
 02/16/2006 01:26:56 AM · #38
Hello all. I need your advice on which wide angle lens to get for my Canon EOS 10D. I currently have a 35-135 lens. I heard Sigmas are pretty good. Does anyone have an opinion on Sigma's 17-50mm lens? Thanks in advance for your comments.
 02/16/2006 01:52:39 AM · #39
Make your own decision, based on your own needs of portability, flexibility, photography style etc ... but do it as an informed choice.

Go to dpReview's Side-by-side comparison, put all 4 cameras in the mix and compare all the features that are important to you and then go to the shop and handle the two you like the most.

Brett
 02/16/2006 02:42:05 AM · #40
Put the cameras in your hand before you buy. I like the ideas behind the Oly line, but it dosen't fit my hand or feel comfortable. And rembemer that once you buy that body you are committed to that line for all lenses, flashes, ect.

And while choosing which brand to buy based on what the big budget pros use is a bit like buying a car based on how the line does in formula one racing, I would point out that at all major news and spoting events the vast majority of long lenses are white, that means there are more Canon's in the group than all the other brands combined.
 02/16/2006 03:20:47 AM · #41
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
I would point out that at all major news and spoting events the vast majority of long lenses are white, that means there are more Canon's in the group than all the other brands combined.


While thats true please keep in mind that all manufacturers do or have produced white/cream/beige lenses in the past.

And seriously man, thats the lamest reason in the world to select an entry-level camera. Unless of course your planning to upgrade to a pro model body and have a quite a few thousand to spend on glass.

bazz.
 02/16/2006 04:18:11 AM · #42
Originally posted by Mephisto:
first of all thx everyone for the great feedback, i will sleep some nights, before i decide ;P

Originally posted by sir_bazz:
At those prices that you listed the Nikon D50 looks like great value.

Funny that in our country the Pentax DL with kit lens is equiv of around 460 euro which makes it the best value by a long way.

Even the DS, if you can still find one, is only 553 euro with a Sigma kit lens.

They are all capable of taking great pics so it's primarily a value for money thing.

cheers,
bazz.


wooow 460 Eur!!! is it possible to buy a camera in the us via internet and then "import" it to europe???
looks like the us prices are sooo much lower then here in europe!!!


I live in South Africa and have a Pentax *istD.
I love the camera and there is excellent glass for it available on the internet.
I recently bought the Sigma 10-20mm lens for it - WOW!
I do all my camera shopping on the internet, and save about 40% on SA prices.
Go to www.bhphotovideo.com and check on their prices before buying in europe.
Good luck with whatever you choose!
02/16/2006 05:43:00 AM · #43
Some would assume I'd tell you to get the 5D, because that's what I've got. But I won't. I'm very happy with my 5D, but that doesn't mean it's the right camera for you. All four cameras are decent, and you can get good lenses for all of them.

The correct answer to your question about which to get is something only you can answer - because you are an individual, with your own body and your own way of thinking. The only way you can answer your question is by picking up each of the cameras you mentioned and trying them out. Then you can answer some questions for yourself about each camera...

See whether it sits comfortably in your hands, or whether it is awkward to hold. Is it too heavy for you? Too light? (One of my friends was considering buying a film Dynax 5 from me, but decided not to because it felt too light to him!) Are the handgrips comfortable, and will they stay that way if you are photographing for a few hours?

Try the controls. Pretend you are going to take a shot on full manual. Is it easy to set the settings you needs? Do the controls make sense to you? Does the camera feel like an extension of your hand/eye/brain? If it does, then you've answered the question about which one you should get! Do the menus make sense, are they easy to understand and navigate through? Does the camera have enough settings to give you artistic control, but not so many that you feel overwhelmed?

There will be advantages and disadvantages for each of the cameras you mentioned, but compared to the question of whether the cameras feel comfortable for your hand and your brain, the relative differences are really not that important. If the camera isn't comfortable FOR YOU to use, then there isn't a "killer feature" that will redeem it.

Why did I get the K-M 5D? Because I already had collection of Minolta bodies, lenses and other accessories built up. And why did I have Minolta bodies and lenses? Because when I tried out cameras of a few different brands, the Minolta felt like it fit me like a glove - it was comfortable and instinctive for me, in a way that the Canon and Nikon cameras I tried weren't. But I have friends who love their Canon, Nikon or Pentax cameras and don't find my Minoltas comfortable at all. And that's ok - individual tastes and preferences are perfectly legitimate reasons for buying one camera (or anything else!) over another.
02/16/2006 05:51:26 AM · #44
I know forums are a really good place to find out heaps about different models but i found this site www.dpreview.com a big help when deciding between d70s and 20D!

You can compare all the models you like against each other and hopefully you can choose the right camera for your needs!
 02/16/2006 07:00:14 AM · #45
Originally posted by gthomas85:
I know forums are a really good place to find out heaps about different models but i found this site www.dpreview.com a big help when deciding between d70s and 20D!


From memory the D70 was released to compete with the 300D. No wonder you chose the 20D.

cheers,
bazz.
 02/16/2006 08:49:24 AM · #46
Originally posted by outcast670:
Hello all. I need your advice on which wide angle lens to get for my Canon EOS 10D. I currently have a 35-135 lens. I heard Sigmas are pretty good. Does anyone have an opinion on Sigma's 17-50mm lens? Thanks in advance for your comments.


17-70 their new one? or their 18-50 2.8 EX lens? The first i have not read about (it was announced only 2 or 3 weeks ago) and the second is very good, I have one.

check the reviews of lenses at //www.fredmiranda.com or photozone
 02/16/2006 09:14:11 AM · #47
D50 has the best noise perfomance , better than 350D(rebel XT)
 02/16/2006 09:30:38 AM · #48
Couple of cents from this peanut gallery.

I will say that I have usually found Canon's lens choices to be better bang for the Buck. Lens quality is pretty good when you get into the upper echelons of lenses. If you do your research and get the right lenses, you can't help but get quality.

I just found that when it came time to do the math, after just 4 lenses, I was 400-500 dollars ahead with the Canon series for pretty much equivalent quality.

I did notice that there are a LOT of Nikon lenses where I am for sale second hand, but most of them are ANCIENT and manual focus. While there is merit to these lenses, I get the feeling that you are not really looking for a camera for the nostalgia, but you want something you can use.

For me, I will be going Canon, but that's because I was planning on going 20D and I've got a bunch of friends who are canon users with whom I can share equipment.

It would be worthwhile to consider your future.

If you plan on getting a modest collection of lenses capable of doing most anything, you can easily go Konica Minolta and never look back.

Why?

Because all of your lenses will be fine for now (I believe Sony has committed to 7 years minimum of support to existing Konica Minolta products in the event of problems) and glass lasts.

You could easily get a collection of four lenses, pulling a page from Bobster's list, but choosing Sigma and Tamron equivalents that would leave you sitting MIGHTY pretty for a good long while (50mm 1.7 KM, 18-70KM or 18-50 2.8 Sigma, 70-300 Sigma and whatever you like in the 100mm prime category that supports macro) for under a thousand bucks US.

All of said lenses would become equivalent of VR or IS lenses of the Nikon/Canon world. Shooting an 18-50 F/2.8 with Anti-shake is pretty amazing I would imagine.

For me, as I also have been looking at similar choices, the list is a little different.

#1 Canon 350XT - versatility and availability of RECENT lenses in the 2nd hand market as well as image quality and compatibility with later possible expansions
#2 Konica Minolta 5D - everything except for compatibility with later possible expansions (although we might all be surprised by Sony's first DSLR)
#3 2nd hand Nikon D70
#4 Pentax - because their glass is good and cheap
#5 Nikon - good pictures, but I find the camera to be uncomfortable and cheap plasticky feeling... their lenses simply cannot keep up the value for the dollar for guys who are not made of money. If I buy a camera but have to buy all Sigma lenses because I can't afford their name brand high end stuff, I'd rather go KM for the anti-shake

I may not be a high end photographer, but I've been doing rather a lot of reading up on the subject.
 02/16/2006 09:31:38 AM · #49
Originally posted by sangeeth:
D50 has the best noise perfomance , better than 350D(rebel XT)


i read different opinions about that in many forums.
some say the canons have the best noise performance?!
so who is right here???
 02/16/2006 09:40:33 AM · #50
I too have read many different opinions on this subject. I thought that the last time I checked on DPReview that the opinion was that Nikon still used stronger Noise reduction, so while the noise was less, it wasn't actually less off the sensor, it was just less in the final output picture.

I could be totally wrong here, but I thought it had a lot to do with the type of chip being used as well. For example, CCD works a bit different and tends to generate a fair bit more heat than a CMOS, so if you just turn it on, a D50 may actually be pretty good, but after being on for a few seconds, it starts pushing the number up.

I haven't seen anything really authoritative and detailed on the subject, but I've always gone with the idea that Canon has better noise because of using cooler chips.

I don't put too much stock in anything I read in a magazine which has too much responsibility to those who pay their bills.

I also don't like that there is too little information given about the test conditions.

Bottom line however, most of the current crop of DSLR's has excellent noise characteristics.

Olympus cameras have significantly smaller pixels and are likely plagued with more noise. This is supported by the fact that DPReview often shows Olympus cameras having characteristically smudgy pictures at high ISO's due to excessive noise reduction.

Having less noise reduction in the camera is preferred because after market software usually does a better job.

Message edited by author 2006-02-16 09:41:36.
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