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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Four DSLR's ! Which one is the best???
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Showing posts 51 - 66 of 66, (reverse)
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 02/16/2006 09:41:12 AM · #51
The Nikon D50 offers lower noise than the Canon 350D. Scroll down the linked pages to see examples of each. Note that the Nikon is cleaner, but the Canon offers more detail (due to higher resolution and/or lens sharpness).

The Nikon is more comfortable to hold for most people, has less noise, faster autofocus and is considerably cheaper. The Canon offers more resolution, a faster burst rate, a backlit info panel, and an available battery grip. As others have suggested, each DSLR has its strong points and tradeoffs. You just have to pick the one that fits you best.

Message edited by author 2006-02-16 09:49:45.
 02/16/2006 10:10:18 AM · #52
Nice links for the breakdown on the two cameras Shannon. I do have to say that I was looking quite hard through both articles and I didn't see anything that compared the Noise levels of the two cameras.

In fact, I have to say that the comparisons did not feel like they were highly technical either.

Indeed, parts of the comparisons actually came down to the lenses that happened to be on the cameras, not the cameras themselves.

Having said all that, it's also worthwhile to remember that things that are new are often hard to get used to. I didn't get used to the feel of my new camera for a couple of weeks. I can now operate it in the dark without looking and it feels comfortable. And I assure you that the S2 IS is a LOT smaller than any DSLR.

A lot of people who use bigger cameras feel that the 350XT is too small, but you probably wouldn't feel that after using it as your primary camera for a couple of weeks.

Pick up the BG for it and you are very unlikely to feel that way.

Pricing is coming down on it too. I can get a body only here for around 500 dollars US. And wow, it is ever tempting (I'm waiting to find a 2nd hand 20D in good shape for around 800-850 dollars US).
 02/16/2006 10:14:10 AM · #53
How refreshing to hear so many positive comments re: the NikonD50. A lot of people on the "other site" forums seem to think the D50 is a bit of rubbish! I just bought one two months ago and think quite highly of it. BTW, I did consider the Canon line (comparable price range) before deciding on the Nikon. Good luck!

Don
 02/16/2006 10:33:01 AM · #54
Librodo shoots with a Nikon d70, that's good enough for me ;)
 02/16/2006 10:36:59 AM · #55
And don't they know they're lucky to have him... Librodo's photos were all over a free Nikon advertising supplement in a photo magazine I picked up recently. I hope he got well paid for that.
 02/16/2006 10:48:24 AM · #56
Originally posted by eschelar:
I was looking quite hard through both articles and I didn't see anything that compared the Noise levels of the two cameras.


There are comparison shots at ISO100 - ISO1600 about 3/4 of the way down on both reviews.
 02/16/2006 11:31:02 AM · #57
Image noise is a persistant problem, even with the best of cameras. No matter which DSLR you select, there will be shooting conditions that aggravate the noise and others that tend to mitigate. Experience with the chosen camera can overcome a lot of the small differences between one maker's camera and another's. When you acquire your new camera, select several shooting subjects, portrait, landscape, macro, etc. Make a chart to represent each scenario and then shoot each with a series of shutter/fstop combinations that all provide a net correct exposure (reciprocity). There is always a tradoff between shutter speed and aperture setting. You will find that there is a combination that provides comparatively lower noise than other combinations. Highlight those 'sweet' settings and use them as a guide for future use. They won't cover all situations, but will suffice most of the time.
 02/17/2006 03:27:16 AM · #58
Shannon, I don't mean to sound argumentative as I do respect your knowledge and opinions, but I don't really feel that the comparisons on that website could be called definitive or technical or stable testing conditions.

It is comparing pictures taken on different nights, at possibly different times at possibly different temperatures and with different lenses. Little is disclosed about camera settings, or conditions of the test. The purpose of the test is a rough comparison, not a highly accurate laboratory test upon which authoritative statements on noise levels in particular cameras could be made. Outdoor conditions are typically unstable.
 02/17/2006 03:43:24 AM · #59
the KM5D and the Nikon 50D share the same sensor a Sony ccd but from what I have read the KM5D is less noisy.
About the KM lens mount, apparently Sony will continue with it,
{a} because they have the tooling
(b) A new lens mount means retooling, and why change,when you have just purchased the rights to KM range, retooling is expensive and what would they change to? cannot see Nikon or Canon in bed with them at all

02/17/2006 03:57:30 AM · #60
Originally posted by eschelar:
Shannon, I don't mean to sound argumentative as I do respect your knowledge and opinions, but I don't really feel that the comparisons on that website could be called definitive or technical or stable testing conditions.


I'm not Shannon but if you'd like to see recent results under controlled conditions then see this thread for the ISO noise tests by Popular Photography.

Here.

Keep in mind that they use DX Analyzer for testing as opposed to the human eye.

You'll need to drill down about half way on the first page to find the results.

cheers,
bazz.

Message edited by author 2006-02-17 03:59:55.
 02/17/2006 07:46:11 AM · #61
Dont forget to look at the Olympus E-500. If I were starting from scratch this would be my choice.


02/17/2006 08:06:59 AM · #62
I sell these things every day. I tell every customer who walks in the same thing I'm going to tell you. :)

Bottom line is this- unless you are planning on going into a position where you will spend $1500 and up for a single lens, go with hand feel. Period.

You can measure pixels until the cows come home. Thing is this- you are going to have this body probaby 3 years. Then upgrade. That's just how dSLRS are. So I honestly would not stress too much over body. :)

None of the cameras you are looking at are crap. Some have stronger areas than others.

If you plan on dropping BIG money on lenses, or plan on going pro in the next 2 years, then go with the Nikon or the Canon. You want to hit fredmiranda.com and other sites where pro shooters in the field you are interested in are using that system.

I'm cautious about Olympus because I'm not positive the 4/3 system is a wise long term investment.

Pentax is cool because EVERYTHING they ever made lenswise works on the camera.

KM's anti shake is awesome, and Sony has promised to honor the warrenty on the system after they start production on their version.

Nikon has the best ergonomics in my opinion

Canon has the most resolution, and it's also your most expensive body option.

I'd personally go Pentax or Nikon myself body only and then get the Tamron 28-75 2.8 lens.

That's just me though. :)
02/17/2006 08:26:46 AM · #63
Originally posted by blemt:
I sell these things every day. I tell every customer who walks in the same thing I'm going to tell you. :)

Bottom line is this- unless you are planning on going into a position where you will spend $1500 and up for a single lens, go with hand feel. Period.

You can measure pixels until the cows come home. Thing is this- you are going to have this body probaby 3 years. Then upgrade. That's just how dSLRS are. So I honestly would not stress too much over body. :)

None of the cameras you are looking at are crap. Some have stronger areas than others.

If you plan on dropping BIG money on lenses, or plan on going pro in the next 2 years, then go with the Nikon or the Canon. You want to hit fredmiranda.com and other sites where pro shooters in the field you are interested in are using that system.

I'm cautious about Olympus because I'm not positive the 4/3 system is a wise long term investment.

Pentax is cool because EVERYTHING they ever made lenswise works on the camera.

KM's anti shake is awesome, and Sony has promised to honor the warrenty on the system after they start production on their version.

Nikon has the best ergonomics in my opinion

Canon has the most resolution, and it's also your most expensive body option.

I'd personally go Pentax or Nikon myself body only and then get the Tamron 28-75 2.8 lens.

That's just me though. :)


Amen! I was just going to write something similar as this as to my opinion of a camera and you just did it for me, couldn´t have put it in better words myself. Just go with the one you think looks cooler or fits better in your hand, what appeals to you!
 02/17/2006 08:29:25 AM · #64
many of you recommended the olympus e-500 and after a little search on ebay i found this one:

OLYMPUS E-500 with
1. Olympus E-500 body
2. Olympus lense Zuiko Digital 14-45mm f3,5-5,6
3. Olympus lense Zuiko Digital 40-150mm f3,5-4,5
4. Olympus E-System bag kompakt (SBC-1)
5. 1GB Kingston CompactFlash Karte

price:830EUR

for me this offer sounds great, isn't it?
what do you think about the lenses?

Message edited by author 2006-02-17 08:58:51.
 02/21/2006 10:19:23 PM · #65
I remember the thread and I posted my opinions there as well. I believe that the final word from the OP who had read the article was that the DPReview test was considered 'much more detailed'.

I have trouble trusting a magazine as do many others who posted their opinions in that thread.

If I'm not mistaken, DPReview's current stance on noise is that the Nikon does not handle noise better than the Canon when BOTH factors are considered, namely Noise AND Noise reduction.

One primary argument in this area is that there is very little actual difference in the Noise performance between the 350 and the 20D, largely because they have very similar sensors of the same type. Nikon sensors are a different type, so while logic would dictate that larger photo sites would produce less noise, there are clearly other factors.

To find a huge difference in performance between the 20D and the 350XT where some other more reputable sites have posted contrary results would seem to indicate that their testing is not as objective as it claims to be.

Anyways, it is true that all of these cameras do handle noise pretty well. With the possible exception of the Olympus line.

I'm also not so set on their overall design that I would rate them on the same plane as the other DSLR's.

It's a nice system though. Remember that it's a 2x crop sensor, so your lenses will be effectively double their focal length (14-45 works out as a 28-90) and that the future of the Olympus mount is questionable because 2x cropped sensors are a fair bit smaller than other mainstream choices. Smaller sensor sites translates to an absolute limit in performance in areas such as noise and diffraction. This is a major factor that will always be pushing the Olympus system down.
 02/21/2006 11:48:25 PM · #66
Originally posted by eschelar:

Anyways, it is true that all of these cameras do handle noise pretty well. With the possible exception of the Olympus line.

I'm also not so set on their overall design that I would rate them on the same plane as the other DSLR's.

It's a nice system though. Remember that it's a 2x crop sensor, so your lenses will be effectively double their focal length (14-45 works out as a 28-90) and that the future of the Olympus mount is questionable because 2x cropped sensors are a fair bit smaller than other mainstream choices. Smaller sensor sites translates to an absolute limit in performance in areas such as noise and diffraction. This is a major factor that will always be pushing the Olympus system down.


The 4/3rds sensor is not that much smaller than the APS-C sized sensors of Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. and pixel pitch is not that much smaller either. The Canon 20D, with it's APS-C sensor, has remarkably good high ISO noise characteristics so it must not only be about sensor size or pixel pitch. Processing of the image data, heat production of the sensor, and percentage of the pixel that is devoted to light capture as opposed to data transfer also contribute to low noise at high ISO. I think that too much is made of high ISO noise, as if this were the only factor involved with producing high quality images. What about issues such as color and tonal rendition or focusing accuracy, which the Oly cams do very well?

Olympus 4/3rds lenses are of very high quality and produce sharp images. They have just begun to produce 3 fixed F2.0 professional lenses and their midrange lenses are excellent as well. Panasonic is producing a 4/3rds DSLR and may bring Leica with them and Sigma has also just announced 5 new lenses for the 4/3rds mount.

A smaller sensor can have advantages too. A smaller sensor provides for deeper DOF and allows 4/3rds photographers to use a stop or two larger aperture, without losing critical deep DOF. This also allows more light through, and will improve noise characteristics.

Oly DSLRs have good noise characteristics from ISO 100-400, and while this can be limiting for some photographers, others don't have problems with it. All camera systems have limitations, as well as, strong points. If price, size and weight, focusing accuracy, and beautifully vivid colors and tonality right out of the camera are important then the Oly system may just be the ticket. Oly cameras also have the dust removal system in all of the DSLRs.
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