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03/13/2006 11:43:19 AM · #101 |
Originally posted by bluenova:
... So is it a 2 sec exposure or a 2 sec shutter speed (or both) that's required? |
I've always considered them one and the same, but I guess it could be considered from a different perspective as can most things. ;^)
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03/13/2006 11:44:00 AM · #102 |
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
If your teacher in photography class gave you an assignment to shoot a photo with a 2 sec exposure and you shot one for 1 second. What do you think your grade would be? This is a clear assignment, I'm amazed at all the people who think shooting anything but a 2 second exposure should be okay. |
Completely agree. Sorry SC's but I think you job is to verify every photo for 2 seconds, if it's not 2 sec then the SC's have a duty to DQ it. A fair challenge, maybe not but it is a very specific requirement, this is far different that DNMC factors. How is that different than changing the time on your camera so the time fits the challenge? Brent well said. |
A photo can only be DQ'd for breaking the rules, not the challenge description. |
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03/13/2006 11:44:29 AM · #103 |
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
If your teacher in photography class gave you an assignment to shoot a photo with a 2 sec exposure and you shot one for 1 second. What do you think your grade would be? This is a clear assignment, I'm amazed at all the people who think shooting anything but a 2 second exposure should be okay. |
Completely agree. Sorry SC's but I think you job is to verify every photo for 2 seconds, if it's not 2 sec then the SC's have a duty to DQ it. A fair challenge, maybe not but it is a very specific requirement, this is far different that DNMC factors. How is that different than changing the time on your camera so the time fits the challenge? Brent well said. |
True. However, let me play devil's advocate. If you were to take a photography class as I had before, either you should have a SLR or you borrow one from the photography department.
Grounds for DQing those wyho do not follow and meet the challenge to a Tee is somewhat tough considering the vast members on the site probably not having a manual setting on their cameras.
Rikki |
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03/13/2006 11:45:59 AM · #104 |
| Let's have another challenge called "Cheating" and all rules of every kind are thrown out. THEN lets see how many DNMC comments there is ;) |
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03/13/2006 11:46:27 AM · #105 |
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
... Completely agree. Sorry SC's but I think you job is to verify every photo for 2 seconds ... |
Oh boy! Nowhere NEAR enough SC VOLUNTEERS to get that job done! And, besides, it not a job that needs doing anyway.
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03/13/2006 12:00:49 PM · #106 |
why even bother participating in a challange if your not going to follow the main description?
It's like entering a circle crop into a square crop challenge. |
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03/13/2006 12:03:41 PM · #107 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
... Completely agree. Sorry SC's but I think you job is to verify every photo for 2 seconds ... |
Oh boy! Nowhere NEAR enough SC VOLUNTEERS to get that job done! And, besides, it not a job that needs doing anyway. |
It's something that could be trivially automated. Just parse the EXIF info at submission time and throw out anything that wasn't 2 seconds. No humans need to be involved after the script is written properly[1]
[1] The trick is to write it properly in a world with halfassed support and implementation of EXIF |
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03/13/2006 12:05:13 PM · #108 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by PhantomEWO:
... Completely agree. Sorry SC's but I think you job is to verify every photo for 2 seconds ... |
Oh boy! Nowhere NEAR enough SC VOLUNTEERS to get that job done! And, besides, it not a job that needs doing anyway. |
It's something that could be trivially automated. Just parse the EXIF info at submission time and throw out anything that wasn't 2 seconds. No humans need to be involved after the script is written properly[1]
[1] The trick is to write it properly in a world with halfassed support and implementation of EXIF |
Save for Web function (that most of us use), removes EXIF from the file.
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03/13/2006 12:05:17 PM · #109 |
Originally posted by bluenova:
... So is it a 2 sec exposure or a 2 sec shutter speed (or both) that's required? |
To be nit-picky there are technically two exposures going on, one very fast flash exposure and one ambient light exposure. This is always the case with a flash exposure. In this case there was no real ambient light, but a two second ambient light exposure was done.
The shutter was open for 2 seconds. The flash exposure was very short. The ambient light exposure was 2 seconds, with very low ambient light.
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03/13/2006 12:08:50 PM · #110 |
Originally posted by idnic:
Save for Web function (that most of us use), removes EXIF from the file. |
But you wouldn't be using it if the EXIF was required to enter the challenge, now would you ? :)
Save As works just about as well, though you can't get it to automate the search for the best file size and the EXIF data would make it a wee bit bigger.
Just pointing out that it wouldn't be hard to force the 2 second exposure rule, though I think the challenge like all others should be open to creative interpretation.
Suppose I took a picture that looked like it was a two second exposure but I actually used a 30 second exposure to achieve it - it meets the spirit but perhaps not the letter of the challenge. I don't see that as cheating, just being creative. After all, that's what this contest is supposed to be about - creativity, not leagalese.
Typically when I work with clients I work extremely hard to give them what they actually need - which isn't always specifically what they ask for. |
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03/13/2006 12:09:27 PM · #111 |
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
It's like entering a circle crop into a square crop challenge. |
Topologically speaking, they are the same thing ;) |
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03/13/2006 12:15:53 PM · #112 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by Brent_Ward:
It's like entering a circle crop into a square crop challenge. |
Topologically speaking, they are the same thing ;) |
Then you can try pounding that square peg through that round hole. ;o) |
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03/13/2006 12:22:25 PM · #113 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by idnic:
Save for Web function (that most of us use), removes EXIF from the file. |
But you wouldn't be using it if the EXIF was required to enter the challenge, now would you ? :)
Save As works just about as well, though you can't get it to automate the search for the best file size and the EXIF data would make it a wee bit bigger.
Just pointing out that it wouldn't be hard to force the 2 second exposure rule, though I think the challenge like all others should be open to creative interpretation.
Suppose I took a picture that looked like it was a two second exposure but I actually used a 30 second exposure to achieve it - it meets the spirit but perhaps not the letter of the challenge. I don't see that as cheating, just being creative. After all, that's what this contest is supposed to be about - creativity, not leagalese.
Typically when I work with clients I work extremely hard to give them what they actually need - which isn't always specifically what they ask for. |
But if they tell you they want a cell phone design and you give them an alarm clock, will they be happy?
Be as creative as you want with in the given guidelines of a 2 sec exposure just like the example pug has shown. The exif should show 2 secs is th eonly requirement.
Message edited by author 2006-03-13 12:23:29. |
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03/13/2006 12:24:47 PM · #114 |
| I don't get the point of this challenge...what is the significance of a 2 second exposure? |
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03/13/2006 12:30:23 PM · #115 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Just pointing out that it wouldn't be hard to force the 2 second exposure rule, though I think the challenge like all others should be open to creative interpretation.
Suppose I took a picture that looked like it was a two second exposure but I actually used a 30 second exposure to achieve it - it meets the spirit but perhaps not the letter of the challenge. I don't see that as cheating, just being creative. After all, that's what this contest is supposed to be about - creativity, not leagalese. |
There we go, it's the "I'm not breaking the rules, I'm being creative" defense. Disregard the rules that are explicitly defined in the name of your pursuit of artistic expression. Yep!
Originally posted by Gordon:
Typically when I work with clients I work extremely hard to give them what they actually need - which isn't always specifically what they ask for. |
I don't this this is a good analogy for anything other than self- justification of "creative expression" to circumvent the rules of the challenge that are in place.
Is this any different than if DPC could not verify dates photos were shot? Would people feel that it was acceptable to enter images that didn't meet the date requirements but were in the "spirit" of the challenge? "I mean, it was only one day off, I mean, come-on. Don't be so closed-minded" |
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03/13/2006 12:33:48 PM · #116 |
I say DQ if exposure <> 2sec!!! This is a must. Voters have no way of knowing if the rulles were followed.
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03/13/2006 12:39:08 PM · #117 |
Well, I'm in and all rules followed ! Exactly 2 seconds.
I'm number one! I hope it stays that way! :)
Rose
Message edited by author 2006-03-13 12:39:55. |
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03/13/2006 12:48:00 PM · #118 |
Reading this thread speaks volumes to where the world has gone. Deception and cheating have become ingrained and acceptable to the masses.
And we wonder why our politics (at least in the US) is the way it is. Go figure.
Challenge Details: Take a photograph using a shutter speed of exactly 2 seconds.
That is about as clear a challenge description as I have seen in my almost two years here. We must have quite a few lawyers as members because only they would argue that red means blue.
Edit: BTW - SC does not have to check ALL entries to enforce the 2 second rule. That is just a smoke screen. They only have to check the top finishers just as they do now. That gives the incentive to follow the rules.
Message edited by author 2006-03-13 12:56:20.
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03/13/2006 12:59:39 PM · #119 |
All this talk of lighting and no flash, etc, is a bit confusing to me. All I did was keep adjusting my f/stop till it "worked" without a flash, and indoors, and with normal lighting conditions. If a flash is going to give you a straight shot of a dog as Shutterpug did, which is a very good shot, and still at 2 seconds, then it will be confusing to vote when one is looking for the challenge requirements factor.
My entry will, or I should say "should", be able to be seen that it is a longer exposed shot. I can't tell by the dog photo though.
Hmmm, may have to change my voting stadegy on this one. I know there can be many creative shots that can be done with 2 seconds. I did one myself and have been experimenting with long exposures for the better part of this week. I also will be able to tell the difference between a 30 second exposure and a 2 second. Obviously in 2 seconds there isn't much chance for very dreamy waterfalls to happen or for it to seem people are rising from the dead or some others I have seen in challenges before.
Also, what jbsmithana said is true. Council only need check the top shots to keep others in line. It is just going to be rough on the voters though if someone just goes out and shoots any old "stand still" landscape at 2 seconds.
I feel a bit of drama about to happen with this one. I see a lot of DQ requests and flip flopping of scores and a lot of complainers. For me, I have no worries. My shot meets all requirements and for those that can tell a 2 second exposure, mine will be quite easy to vote on. But who knows. For the newbies that don't know the difference, my photo too may fail. LOL...I guess this is going to be one of those challenges where it is really anyones ball game.
Rose
Message edited by author 2006-03-13 13:00:55. |
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03/13/2006 01:01:37 PM · #120 |
I have an idea!!! Lets all take a picture of something and have the shutter open for exactly two seconds! This will give us an opportunity to learn about slow shutter speed and lighting! We can then all get together and vote on who did the best job! And maybe the top notch photographers out there can leave some constructive criticism for the novices so they can improve themselves.
Who's with me??? |
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03/13/2006 01:05:07 PM · #121 |
Originally posted by BakerBug:
I have an idea!!! Lets all take a picture of something and have the shutter open for exactly two seconds! This will give us an opportunity to learn about slow shutter speed and lighting! We can then all get together and vote on who did the best job! And maybe the top notch photographers out there can leave some constructive criticism for the novices so they can improve themselves.
Who's with me??? |
Sounds like an excellent idea !! Count me in.
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03/13/2006 01:05:34 PM · #122 |
Originally posted by BakerBug:
I have an idea!!! Lets all take a picture of something and have the shutter open for exactly two seconds! This will give us an opportunity to learn about slow shutter speed and lighting! We can then all get together and vote on who did the best job! And maybe the top notch photographers out there can leave some constructive criticism for the novices so they can improve themselves.
Who's with me??? |
Are you out of your mind? LOL...This is DPC here. We simply MUST pick apart every word and every sylabol in those words and figure out if we can all agree! It is an impossibility, but since I have been a member, it has NEVER been as easy as you describe or ever worked out that way.
As I said before. This is basically all a learning thing. The theme is to do a 2 second shutter speed. You either do it, or you cheat. One or the other. Voters will vote however, no matter. Just do your best and let the chips fall, but hope you learned something in the midst. :) |
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03/13/2006 01:05:36 PM · #123 |
Originally posted by Rose8699:
I see a lot of DQ requests ~~~ |
Shouldn't be. Won't be any different than a regular challenge, as this IS a regular challenge. DQ requests should only be for processing, challenge rules violations, etc.
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03/13/2006 01:09:45 PM · #124 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Rose8699:
I see a lot of DQ requests ~~~ |
Shouldn't be. Won't be any different than a regular challenge, as this IS a regular challenge. DQ requests should only be for processing, challenge rules violations, etc. |
I don't think that has ever stopped others from still submitting a DQ request though or a validation request.
Rose |
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03/13/2006 01:09:54 PM · #125 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Suppose I took a picture that looked like it was a two second exposure but I actually used a 30 second exposure to achieve it - it meets the spirit but perhaps not the letter of the challenge. |
I would say that a 30 second exposure does not even meet the spirit of the challenge. If the spirit of the challenge was take a photo that looks like it used a long exposure, then the challenge description would not be "Take a photograph using a shutter speed of exactly 2 seconds".
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