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04/18/2006 11:03:15 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by mk:
My Dad took this photo after I fell in the river while we were hiking. We were in a secluded area so I was drying out. They even put it in a photo album. If I ever had friends over and I left the room, my sister would whip out the album and show them this photo.
I can probably sue my parents, don't you think?
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LOL! Great one.
There is a difference in capturing something accidental or unprevoked than purposely making a child cry for a photograph.
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04/18/2006 11:04:18 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by JRalston:
There is a difference in capturing something accidental or unprevoked than purposely making a child cry for a photograph. |
You're not trivializing my feelings, are you? |
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04/18/2006 11:05:23 PM · #53 |
You don't wanna know what Julia(grigri) did to get this shot.... |
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04/18/2006 11:06:25 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
You don't wanna know what Julia(grigri) did to get this shot.... |
I hear it involved a certain type of thermometer. |
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04/18/2006 11:08:17 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by mk:
Originally posted by JRalston:
There is a difference in capturing something accidental or unprevoked than purposely making a child cry for a photograph. |
You're not trivializing my feelings, are you? |
I should have not been lazy and just put that line in a different reply :) LOL
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04/18/2006 11:08:24 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by JRalston:
IMO, it is not a matter of if the child will be traumatized long term. I don't think it would have lasting effects.
What I disagree with is deliberately upsetting a child in order to get the perfect shot. It is just wrong. |
I agree that it is just wrong to take advantage of young children to make a buck. That is what is wrong with a lot of people today. People are willing to do anything to make a buck, probably because they can't make an honest living.
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04/18/2006 11:09:56 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by goodtempo:
I agree that it is just wrong to take advantage of young children to make a buck. That is what is wrong with a lot of people today. People are willing to do anything to make a buck, probably because they can't make an honest living. |
Maybe she was bored with movie stars LOL
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04/18/2006 11:25:13 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by Tajhad:
I am appalled a photographer would do this deliberatley to get this reaction (and the parents !)I find the whole thing offensive. This is not photojournalism or recording an actual happening. This is a deliberate manipulation of a childs sense of security. |
Better complain about every photographer that's said 'smile' then too - after all, that's manufacturing emotion for the picture too.
Giving and taking away a lollipop is not child abuse. The people trying to equate the two are trivialising an important issue, which deserves more respect. |
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04/18/2006 11:34:13 PM · #59 |
| After having 4 kids .. I found this a bit depressing .. and quit looking at the pictures .. I'd much rather see a happy and smiling child than look at this all the time. When I do my kid shots, they are always doing something that makes them happy, I never pose or try to force expressions and I will never do anything less than this to get a great shot. |
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04/18/2006 11:39:19 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by mystopia:
After having 4 kids .. I found this a bit depressing .. and quit looking at the pictures .. I'd much rather see a happy and smiling child than look at this all the time. When I do my kid shots, they are always doing something that makes them happy, I never pose or try to force expressions and I will never do anything less than this to get a great shot. |
Which is fine for you, but is a very unrealistic view of actual childhood. Some people want to show the other side, which I believe should be fine for them. You have to admit though, she has done her job, the emotion evoked in this thread is telling enough of that. |
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04/18/2006 11:47:16 PM · #61 |
My daughter and i had a talk about 2 years ago, when she was 16. The first sit down, get it out, adult type conversation we'd really had. The things that she remembered and found traumatic from the ages of 3-8 really blew me away. Things that i had totally forgotten about were a big deal in her psyche. Yes, kids of that age blow up over what we consider trivial - so why intentionally upset them for something like a photograph? These images were not candids, caught by sheer luck when a child was already unhappy. There is raw, heartwrenching emotion being displayed. That is the reason the photos are captivating. It's not just the technique, though it is excellent. These kids were goaded into tears. That's not something to take lightly, unless you happen to be the schoolyard bully.
Message edited by author 2006-04-18 23:49:33. |
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04/18/2006 11:59:47 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by shamrock:
My daughter and i had a talk about 2 years ago, when she was 16. The first sit down, get it out, adult type conversation we'd really had. The things that she remembered and found traumatic from the ages of 3-8 really blew me away. Things that i had totally forgotten about were a big deal in her psyche. Yes, kids of that age blow up over what we consider trivial - so why intentionally upset them for something like a photograph? These images were not candids, caught by sheer luck when a child was already unhappy. They kids were goaded into tears. That's not something to take lightly, unless you happen to be the schoolyard bully. |
And what do *you* remember as being traumatic? I can pour over my childhood any day and make myself become upset at things that happened due to life and typical parenting, but in the end, it doesn't matter. It's all a part of growing up. I used to scream and tantrum to the point of giving a doctor a black eye if I had to get shots as a kid. You don't think that was traumatic? Guess what, I'm over it. I hate getting shots still, but I certainly don't need psychiatric help for it.
Hell, getting studio pictures at Sears used to make me cry big-time. Something my parents made us do anyway.
This isn't about being a "bully". Bullies do what they do out of fear, low self-esteem, and/or a misguided sense of power. What this woman does she does for the love of her art (and the money is probably secondary for her, despite what some people have claimed), and probably for the love of what childhood really is, and while that might sit wrong with some people, it damn well makes me respect her. Look at her galleries of children that *aren't* crying. They're still damn fine works, and you know she's gotta love doing it. At the end of the shoot, I'm pretty certain that the children, and their parents, loved doing it as well, despite the moments of grief that have occured.
Again, I'll reiterate that we don't know everything that goes on in a shoot of hers, so all the conjecturing about how traumatizing it is or is not for these children is a load of bupkiss, and may only be there for your own sense of morality.
Bottom line is, as Gordon said, comparing a few tears for a few moments in a studio to get a photo with traumatiziing events or actual child abuse is trivializing a real and true problem. Children are not china dolls. Their 'traumas' that they remember as teens and young adults are simply life events, and adding one or two for the sake of an art piece is, IMO, no big deal whatsoever.
But you're free to disagree with me, so do so if you feel the need. |
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04/19/2006 12:10:54 AM · #63 |
| where did my post go? I guess I'm not meant to hit the button while "results are being calculated for a current challenge" |
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04/19/2006 12:21:54 AM · #64 |
| These are amazing shots. and I'm willin to bet that each of these kids have cried just as hard several times during that day for absolutly rediculous reasons like most kids do during those days. If i were to hang out with my neices and nephews for half an afternoon with all of them together in one room I garantee each of them will cry just as hard and just by teasing each other on their own accord. It is rediculous to think that any of these kids will remember one of the million times they cry about a lolipop, a toy, or the thread line in their socks not ligning up perfectly with their toes. Do any of you remember a traumatizing crying fit when you were 3? |
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04/19/2006 12:35:02 AM · #65 |
I don't care how good they are on technicals lighting, colorb, blah, it's just pretty sick if you really want a 43x50 of a crying kid on your wall.
whatever. the documentation of human pain need not exploit children. we all know the pain of childhood, why wallow in it? there's so much more joy to childhood that we've lost, and that we take away from them.
it's not the method that I care about, kids will cry, it's the fact that someone wants to celebrate their pain as something beautiful is what just strikes me as pure evil.
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04/19/2006 12:44:29 AM · #66 |
Nowhere did i compare taking away a piece of candy to child abuse. However, coming from an extremely abusive background as a child, perhaps i feel that intentionally causing pain, emotional or physical, is unreasonable. And in my opinion, the value of the photo is not outweighed by the pain inflicted on the child. Sorry, maybe i'm just not that dedicated a photographer. I hope i never am.
Although, manipulating a small child for the sole purpose of an adult's pleasure or financial compensation seems pretty damn abusive, come to think of it.
Message edited by author 2006-04-19 00:47:18. |
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04/19/2006 01:20:16 AM · #67 |
All really great art, music, painting sculpture and even photography, is only good if it is emotional, it has to make us question, provoke a feeling, and make you feel something, otherwise its just a pretty picture. And from the discussions here...
We have to remember that not all art is made for displaying on your lounge room wall. I wouldn't want any of these photos on my wall even (or especially) if they were of my son. Art doesn't have to appeal to everyone, or anyone at all.
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04/19/2006 02:06:23 AM · #68 |
Quoted from the Paul Kopeikin Gallery "Los Angeles, CA â The Paul Kopeikin Gallery in Los Angeles is proud to present âEnd Timesâ, a politically charged photography exhibition by internationally acclaimed contemporary photographer Jill Greenberg. The large-scale portraits in this very personal show, which captures the emotional distress of crying babies, conveys Greenbergâs deepest fear for her own young children and of future generations. Titles of the photos include, "Left Behind", "The Rapture Index", "Grand Old Party", "Shock and Awe", "Armageddon", "Trillions", "Mercury" and more. She states, âI love the raw emotion of children, because it comes close to the anger and helplessness I feel about our current political and social situation.â "
Despite the little darling angels that they are, and probably have the best smiles, I don't really think that this will be the end of their world for taking a photo of them crying. This photographer is trying to make a good statement. To me this also opens doors to many other problems we have when it comes to children.
When you turn the news on, what do you hear?
I always hear what should of, could of, would of been, type statements..
Complaining, agonizing, booohooo why me, pitty pitty, over everything...We are human, not perfect, but intelligent, over all though can we make all the right decisions if it means life or death?
This says a lot about how we as people act and not even know it.
Maybe it could wake people up.
Maybe this could also get under the skin of a future predator, molestor, abuser, or anyone out there as well as the criminals that have been convicted..The rage of failure or wrong doing is brought forth to the surface before the problem is ever recognized. Opens up feelings so that anyone with a mind and capacity of harming one of our precious most respected little beings can relate and maybe get help before anything could happen. The feelings and emotions so deep could stop any of us and make us wonder why. It could give us a impact so strong with new insight to pain or traumatic life threatening events.
These portraits of children crying are reflections of what our society sometimes shows in daily regular routines...
There is a message greater than the children being teased being made to cry for one image...
I like it and want to continue on my way of writing or being the voice for these cries of help..
Or if I can change one persons mind before they take another innocent victim or leaving communities, families, friends, strangers, from ever living a real meaningful life because their soul gut got wrenched, turned into knots, then all over again from something that is sicker than what we see in the movies...
These portraits are like cries of learned behavior that can get better or worse by one stepping in giving a opinion instead of a fact.
I may not make any since, then again who or what does these days?
Message edited by author 2006-04-19 02:16:13.
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04/19/2006 02:18:27 AM · #69 |
i honestly don't think that having a lollipop taken away from these children for as long as it takes to snap a couple of pics of them crying is gonna scar them for life. that said, the photos don't appeal to me. not because of the crying but because of the processing. neat image overload!
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04/19/2006 03:51:47 AM · #70 |
Is she in this montha American Photographer magazine. I was just skimming through it, and noticed all these children crying.
It made me uneasy.
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04/19/2006 04:06:33 AM · #71 |
Just as an side, I can't understand why so many people think these are "excessively neat-imaged"; I find them crisp and sharp and full of detail right across the board. Stunningly good work. Disturbing, yes, but it's supposed to be.
Robt.
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04/19/2006 04:11:04 AM · #72 |
My kids cry enough without making them cry:)
It is tough to imagine a large market for photos of crying babies or that parents want pictures of their kids crying. So, whatever... |
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04/19/2006 04:29:25 AM · #73 |
Originally posted by aguapreta:
It is tough to imagine a large market for photos of crying babies or that parents want pictures of their kids crying. So, whatever... |
These are images in a themed show -- it has nothing to do with portraiture or whether anyone would want to hang a photo of their kid like these on their wall.
Bear_Music: I'm hiding your duplicate posts ...
Message edited by author 2006-04-19 04:31:10. |
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04/19/2006 05:10:18 AM · #74 |
| To make a child under the age of 3 cry all you have to do is say "No" to them. Voila, instant tears, no trauma. My daughter is going through her terrible twos at the moment. |
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04/19/2006 05:16:45 AM · #75 |
Powerful...
;-P
I have quite a few pics from film days when the 4 older kids were very young and whiny. I may have my own exhibit.
Edit to add: Here's one I got today. When the corners of his mouth turn down and his face turns red and he starts to tear up, we call it "The Bulldog" cuz that's what he looks like. It's sad. ...and yet funny.
Message edited by author 2006-04-19 05:28:52. |
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