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04/20/2006 12:39:11 AM · #151 |
Edit: Curse of the dreaded doublepost...
Message edited by author 2006-04-20 00:41:20.
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04/20/2006 12:40:58 AM · #152 |
Perhaps I should rephrase my question to read...
"How is it not hypocritical to ..."
Either action is intended to evoke a reaction. Is it the justification of the reason for evoking the reaction that is subject to ethical questioning?
Is there no justifable reason for slapping a kid across the face?
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04/20/2006 12:50:23 AM · #153 |
Originally posted by livitup:
Perhaps I should rephrase my question to read...
"How is it not hypocritical to ..."
Either action is intended to evoke a reaction. Is it the justification of the reason for evoking the reaction that is subject to ethical questioning?
Is there no justifable reason for slapping a kid across the face? |
Let me see if I can rephrase my thoughts here.
It is ok to tell a child to say cheese to evoke a smile.
IMO, what this photographer is doing the equivalent of walking over to the child and using her hands to physically force the kid to smile.
If she can ask the child to cry, and it cries, that is just fine. That is not playing with their mind for a reaction. But to do something to FORCE a cry is wrong.
Doing something silly to make a child laugh or smile is so different than playing with their head to make them cry.
Smiling/laughing=good
Crying=bad
LOL
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04/20/2006 10:27:13 AM · #154 |
Sorry, this post is completely deviated from the original topic, but i had to answer this.
Originally posted by livitup:
Is there no justifable reason for slapping a kid across the face? |
Sure, there is justifiable reason. For someone that is a complete moron and out of control of their own emotions, and can't fathom a more appropriate way to deal with a CHILD.
That's about the only one i can come up with.
Pedophiles and abusers all manage to justify their actions, if only to themselves. Does it make it acceptable to the mainstream?
A psych professor once told the class i was in that using violence was much like using profanity. It was the last bastion for those that were either too ignorant or too lazy to come up with an alternative.
Message edited by author 2006-04-20 10:31:41. |
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04/20/2006 03:01:25 PM · #155 |
Oh c'mon now. Its not like she is beating them. Not a single one of you have ever made a child cry because of something you wanted (or did not want? Please get off your high horses and remember to leave that sense of entitlement behind.
[I forget how to quote and i lost it anyway, but it went something like this] I dont like that she manipulated those kids just to make a buck[/endquote}
Anne Geddes anyone? I bet those kids cried and cried and cried in those uncomfortable sunflower jumpers. Can you imagine how many clownfaced puppet handed assitants she has? LOL
When has art not been about expression? When did manipulating your subject become taboo? Crissakes
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04/20/2006 03:14:39 PM · #156 |
whether she makes them cry or not, i find those images disturbing to look at. They remind me of something you might see in a child abuse case and i dont mean beating. Maybe she gets off on it.
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04/20/2006 03:22:26 PM · #157 |
Originally posted by Neuferland:
Originally posted by JayWalk:
OK so lets just examine the situtation for a second. She takes a lollipop away from a kid... that kid cries. After a few minutes that kid is given 2 lollipops and has a huge smile on their face and probably forgetting about the past few minutes!
The crying last a few minutes, but the smile afterwards lasts much longer. Now why just focus on the negative? Why not say that she is a nice person for making the kid smile afterwards???
In the grand scheme of things that child is going to enjoy that picture for the rest of their lives (and the candy for a while after the shoot). It is something that they are going to have with them for their lives and probably will put a smile on their face FAR more times than the few minutes they had to cry for it.
ps. According to Jill, a lot of the time it only takes have one of the kids parents walk out of the room to get them to cry. Definitely not traumatizing by any means. |
Okay, I just ran this by my 13 year old and 10 year old, asking them if they would be proud to a part of this "great display" and if I had let the photographer do this to them when they were younger and then years later pulled this out, would they be okay with it?
The answer from both of them? "NO! I WOULD BE PISSED!" And if walking out of the room upset my 3 year old that much, trust me when I say they will remember this incident years later. Sorry, still a no go. These kids are going to be hating their parents later.
Deannda |
Ask them when they're 25. I have pictures of myself crying when i was a little kid and i think it's funny. Of courese your 13 year old would be pissed because at that age they're worried about looking cool. Probably thought that you would show it to their friends. Not saying anything about your kids, but that's how most young adults are. |
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04/21/2006 12:53:54 AM · #158 |
| In today's joke mail, How To Eat Lollipops. |
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04/21/2006 12:58:09 AM · #159 |
Nice. What great timing :)
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04/21/2006 01:19:59 AM · #160 |
Hard to gather my thoughts here:
Abuse is abuse, no matter why it is done. This is abuse. Dress it up as art, innocent moments, blah blah.. what in the hell is wrong with adults crushing the spirit of a child for any moment for any agenda. Adults dither away at what is/isn't permissable, when, how, where.. no abuse is justifiable. I have no words to condem it strongly enough.
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04/21/2006 01:35:14 AM · #161 |
| I see nothing wrong with it. |
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05/18/2006 02:21:52 AM · #162 |
Came to this thread by chance and I really can't believe my eyes what I'm reading in a lot of the replies.
And you ask why morality, in general, has gone down? I don't, when I read that so many people find it quite normal to manipulate (whether it be kids or adults) in a negative way, only to get what they're after. No wonder so many youngsters think it's normal to beat up someone, physically or mentally.
I've seen them all (the photo's) and I don't like them, they're 'cheap', too neat and uninteresting. But then...I've never understood why parents force their kids into all kinds of beauty, dancing, whatever competitions too, which they're only doing for their own, selfish glory.
This has nothing to do with 'ART'.
Message edited by author 2006-05-18 02:23:05.
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05/18/2006 02:24:22 AM · #163 |
Originally posted by Titia:
This has nothing to do with 'ART'. |
Whew! Glad to hear. I usually get blamed for everything. |
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05/18/2006 02:25:33 AM · #164 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by Titia:
This has nothing to do with 'ART'. |
Whew! Glad to hear. I usually get blamed for everything. |
Welll............
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05/18/2006 02:28:32 AM · #165 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by Titia:
This has nothing to do with 'ART'. |
Whew! Glad to hear. I usually get blamed for everything. |
Welll............ |
NOW look what you've done!
Message edited by author 2006-05-18 02:29:05. |
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05/18/2006 02:29:39 AM · #166 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Whew! Glad to hear. I usually get blamed for everything. |
Yes, a couple of searches revealed that Mr ROFLMAO here gets blamed for many many things, from kitchen sinks not working to landslides and global warming. The usual conversation would go like:
Dude A: say you know Brian fell into the toilet the other day?
Dude B: ROFLMAO!!! |
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05/18/2006 02:34:43 AM · #167 |
| To set the record straight, global warming actually is my fault. |
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05/18/2006 02:36:59 AM · #168 |
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05/18/2006 02:37:01 AM · #169 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
To set the record straight, global warming actually is my fault. |
must be due to THEIR work, eh?
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05/18/2006 02:42:33 AM · #170 |
Originally posted by crayon:
must be due to THEIR work, eh? |
In conjunction with excessive methane emissions. |
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05/18/2006 02:48:06 AM · #171 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by crayon:
must be due to THEIR work, eh? |
In conjunction with excessive methane emissions. |
Why does the acronym ASCAP come to mind?
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05/18/2006 03:37:42 AM · #172 |
| I can remember when I was little... a photographer came over to our house and took some pics of my sister, the classic "caritas" (faces, here in Mexico are very traditional... is a series of portraits of a little kid showing "emotions") One pic was to show her happy, another one to make a silly face... and one of them was to show her crying... don't remember what the photographer and my mum did... but my little sist sure cried the hell out of her! |
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05/18/2006 03:41:13 AM · #173 |
Originally posted by Titia:
Came to this thread by chance and I really can't believe my eyes what I'm reading in a lot of the replies.
And you ask why morality, in general, has gone down? I don't, when I read that so many people find it quite normal to manipulate (whether it be kids or adults) in a negative way, only to get what they're after. No wonder so many youngsters think it's normal to beat up someone, physically or mentally.
I've seen them all (the photo's) and I don't like them, they're 'cheap', too neat and uninteresting. But then...I've never understood why parents force their kids into all kinds of beauty, dancing, whatever competitions too, which they're only doing for their own, selfish glory.
This has nothing to do with 'ART'. |
I totally agree with you... You know actual parents want their kids to have the perfect childhood, forcing the kids to do extra activities, ballet, music, learn foreign languages... whatever... they don't let their kids to be... kids... And parents can't realize that what they're doing is far away from a perfect childhood... and the truth is that they just want their children to "have everything they didn't" but, come on, that's not healthy! |
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05/18/2006 04:42:00 AM · #174 |
Caution: this may sound really ignorant, but
Call me the most old fashioned young person I know, but even when I was three, I did not scream and cry like that if someone took my candy... that was uncalled for behavior, but I guess a lot of kids are just spoiled or something. I had more manners than that even that young, and I suppose more important things to worry about also. |
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05/18/2006 11:35:55 PM · #175 |
| alright.... killed this thread too I suppose... :) |
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