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05/01/2006 12:04:26 PM · #201 |
Exxon's CEO Retirement Package Stats
This type of imbalance is the root of much of the worlds problems.
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05/01/2006 12:28:39 PM · #202 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I think we can start complaining when gasoline reaches the $5-$7 per gallon that it is in Europe. |
One big difference between those kind of prices in Europe and USA would be how much of the money goes to the oil compamies in the form of profits and how much goes to the government in the form of taxes. Tax money gets passed along, however inefficiently, to all the citizens in the form of government services while oil company profits are passed along only to the shareholders, with the parallel inefficiency being the enormous compensation paid to corporate execs. |
So, lets add another $3 in tax to a gallon of gas. That will do two things; justify all the bitching and moaning about gas prices and add money for government services.
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05/01/2006 12:30:56 PM · #203 |
Exxon makes about $5 Billion/day in profit.
Not revenue, not sales, but pure PROFIT.
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05/01/2006 12:44:09 PM · #204 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I think we can start complaining when gasoline reaches the $5-$7 per gallon that it is in Europe. |
One big difference between those kind of prices in Europe and USA would be how much of the money goes to the oil compamies in the form of profits and how much goes to the government in the form of taxes. Tax money gets passed along, however inefficiently, to all the citizens in the form of government services while oil company profits are passed along only to the shareholders, with the parallel inefficiency being the enormous compensation paid to corporate execs. |
So, lets add another $3 in tax to a gallon of gas. That will do two things; justify all the bitching and moaning about gas prices and add money for government services. |
Supply vs demand will not work as a controller of price when the supplier(s) operates as a monopoly. The situation calls for intervention. But what we are hearing from our political leaders are not calls for tax increases but rather proposals to suspend gasoline taxes temporarily. If tax increases, or new taxes, are thought to be a solution they should be applied to the profits of the oil companies, not to the consumers.
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05/01/2006 12:46:57 PM · #205 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Exxon makes about $5 Billion/day in profit.
Not revenue, not sales, but pure PROFIT. |
Do we want the government to start telling companies how much profit they can make and how much they can pay people?
Exxon had a record year for revenue because we used record amounts of fuel. That is not Exxon's fault. They should have a record year for profit.
What is Exxon's profit margin? If Exxon's profit margin is high, then I say lets's string them up, but I don't believe it's that high. I though I heard something like 13%. Thus on one $3 gallon of gas, the government takes about $.60 in taxes and Exxon makes $.39 profit.
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05/01/2006 12:48:57 PM · #206 |
Originally posted by Megatherian:
Ever stop to think how much a gallon of toothpaste or mayonaise is? And those don't power your car... |
Do you use those items by the gallon? You must have really shiny teeth! |
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05/01/2006 01:01:21 PM · #207 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Exxon makes about $5 Billion/day in profit. |
Exxon made 8.4 billion in profit in the 1st qtr of 2006 (3 months). That is considerably less then 5 billion per day. They made 36 billion all of last year in profit, thus this years 1st quarter is right in line with last year.
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05/01/2006 01:04:41 PM · #208 |
//money.howstuffworks.com/gas-price.htm
Message edited by author 2006-05-01 13:05:11.
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05/01/2006 01:04:57 PM · #209 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Supply vs demand will not work as a controller of price when the supplier(s) operates as a monopoly. |
How is the oil business a monopoly? There are multiple providers that compete in price for our business. I can chose which gas station I go to and who I buy gas from. If Exxon was the only provider they could charge us as much as they wanted.
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05/01/2006 01:10:10 PM · #210 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Do we want the government to start telling companies how much profit they can make and how much they can pay people? ... |
Why not? When they are out of control it is better to have the government rein them in than to let them spiral forever upward. The forces that we normally depend upon to stem excessive profits (and executive's compensation for that matter) are not working.
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05/01/2006 01:16:14 PM · #211 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by coolhar:
Supply vs demand will not work as a controller of price when the supplier(s) operates as a monopoly. |
How is the oil business a monopoly? There are multiple providers that compete in price for our business. I can chose which gas station I go to and who I buy gas from. If Exxon was the only provider they could charge us as much as they wanted. |
OPEC
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05/01/2006 01:16:38 PM · #212 |
Due to excessive gas prices, and the compensation package of Exxon/Mobil, I will buy gas at one of the other big companies. It may or maynot make a difference, but I will fell better not supporting such an overindulgence.
Tammy
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05/01/2006 01:19:16 PM · #213 |
I still say we should call for an increase in taxes to make the price of gas ~$6/gallon. If for no other reason than to bring our prices in line with the rest of the world and give us something truly worth complaining about.
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05/01/2006 01:28:40 PM · #214 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I still say we should call for an increase in taxes to make the price of gas ~$6/gallon. If for no other reason than to bring our prices in line with the rest of the world and give us something truly worth complaining about. |
what about the families that are struggling to make ends meet, cant afford a new car, they make minimum wage, are forced to move away from the city to afford rent but must work near the city to get any decent pay, what about those people,
europe is their problem we cant compare Europe and the US, two different ideas, and tax system
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05/01/2006 01:30:00 PM · #215 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by coolhar:
Supply vs demand will not work as a controller of price when the supplier(s) operates as a monopoly. |
How is the oil business a monopoly? There are multiple providers that compete in price for our business. I can chose which gas station I go to and who I buy gas from. If Exxon was the only provider they could charge us as much as they wanted. |
OPEC |
Then why are you discussing Exxon's profits?
We buy from Exxon, Shell, Mobil, Marathon... all of which must compete in price with each other. If Exxon gets too greedy and starts charging too much so they can make bigger profits, people will pass the Exxon station and go to a Shell or Mobil station... Free Market.
If all the oil companies work together to keep the price at a point, there are laws against that.
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05/01/2006 01:35:35 PM · #216 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Do we want the government to start telling companies how much profit they can make and how much they can pay people? ... |
Why not? When they are out of control it is better to have the government rein them in than to let them spiral forever upward. The forces that we normally depend upon to stem excessive profits (and executive's compensation for that matter) are not working. |
Because I don't think you would like it if the governemnt told you how much money you can make off a photo. Example: $200 for a photo!!! Too much, new government approved price is now $15. Photographers should not be allowed to profit off people that can't take photos. Also, most Americans are not big fans of communism.
Nothing is out of hand, If Exxon charged too much for gas, you would buy from someone else. The market is working just as it should. We made Exxon huge by using so much gas. It's our fault.
Message edited by author 2006-05-01 13:39:21.
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05/01/2006 01:39:15 PM · #217 |
the US should stop buying oil from everywhere, we should tap our own reserves and fend for ourselves, we have plenty to hold us off, vehicles that dont use gas isnt that far off,
then what would happen to exxon they would loos a huge chunk of there profit and beg us to buy gas from them at a lower price,
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05/01/2006 01:41:40 PM · #218 |
| My gas prices here in L.A. are $3.25 for 87 grade gas... :( I wanna buy a scooter :) |
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05/01/2006 01:44:31 PM · #219 |
| wow really hostile people here... It's $3.00 in pittsburgh, PA. Yes it does hurt, and yes I am grumpy, but realistically, what can we do about it anyway. |
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05/01/2006 01:44:36 PM · #220 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by coolhar:
Supply vs demand will not work as a controller of price when the supplier(s) operates as a monopoly. |
How is the oil business a monopoly? There are multiple providers that compete in price for our business. I can chose which gas station I go to and who I buy gas from. If Exxon was the only provider they could charge us as much as they wanted. |
There are less than a dozen major oil compamies that control the industry worldwide, and they are all operating on the same basic business model. There is no additional profit available (read no incentive) for any of them to deviate from that model. And, more importantly, it would be impossible for a new company, with an innovative business model, to enter the market, thus monpolistic characteristics dominate even though the comsumer may think there is competition. The price differences you see at the retail level are trivial, only a small percentage of the price. That difference is mostly geographic; due primarily to differing costs of distributuion, and the differences in the overhead of the retailer. Where I live you can save two cents a gallon by going to the places that don't have a squeegee & fluid to wash your windshield. Or you can save two cents a gallon by going to the places that only take cash and not credit cards. Do you think that guy who got the three hundred million dollar retirement is worrying about that two cents? Do they, meaning the major oil companies, take windshield washing into consideration when setting their overall business plan? No way. Only the retailer and the consumer are concerned with the differences from one station to the next. And those differences of a few cents at the pump are what the average consumer perceives as competition.
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05/01/2006 01:48:23 PM · #221 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by coolhar:
Supply vs demand will not work as a controller of price when the supplier(s) operates as a monopoly. |
How is the oil business a monopoly? There are multiple providers that compete in price for our business. I can chose which gas station I go to and who I buy gas from. If Exxon was the only provider they could charge us as much as they wanted. |
OPEC |
Then why are you discussing Exxon's profits?
We buy from Exxon, Shell, Mobil, Marathon... all of which must compete in price with each other. If Exxon gets too greedy and starts charging too much so they can make bigger profits, people will pass the Exxon station and go to a Shell or Mobil station... Free Market.
If all the oil companies work together to keep the price at a point, there are laws against that. |
All of them buy from OPEC.
The laws you cite are for the US, not international.
If the oil companies are not fixing prices, why is it that all the gas prices here are identical and should one go up or down, within 5 minutes, ALL the stations here have matched the new price? I think that price fixing is exactly what is happening, but to PROVE it will be impossible.
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05/01/2006 01:52:39 PM · #222 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by coolhar:
Supply vs demand will not work as a controller of price when the supplier(s) operates as a monopoly. |
How is the oil business a monopoly? There are multiple providers that compete in price for our business. I can chose which gas station I go to and who I buy gas from. If Exxon was the only provider they could charge us as much as they wanted. |
There are less than a dozen major oil compamies that control the industry worldwide, and they are all operating on the same basic business model. There is no additional profit available (read no incentive) for any of them to deviate from that model. And, more importantly, it would be impossible for a new company, with an innovative business model, to enter the market, thus monpolistic characteristics dominate even though the comsumer may think there is competition. The price differences you see at the retail level are trivial, only a small percentage of the price. That difference is mostly geographic; due primarily to differing costs of distributuion, and the differences in the overhead of the retailer. Where I live you can save two cents a gallon by going to the places that don't have a squeegee & fluid to wash your windshield. Or you can save two cents a gallon by going to the places that only take cash and not credit cards. Do you think that guy who got the three hundred million dollar retirement is worrying about that two cents? Do they, meaning the major oil companies, take windshield washing into consideration when setting their overall business plan? No way. Only the retailer and the consumer are concerned with the differences from one station to the next. And those differences of a few cents at the pump are what the average consumer perceives as competition. |
Wrong. If Exxon was the only supplier (a true monopoly) then they could charge $10/gallon at a 500% profit margin (or whatever price they wanted) and you would have no choice but to pay it.
It's the 12 competing companies that keeps gas from going higher then it is.
Example: Microsoft has some competiton, but not really and they are pretty close to being a monopoly. They have a profit margin of 31%, which is insane, because they can pretty much charge whatever they want for their product and people buy it. Exxon's profit margin is probably a little high at 10.8%, but it's not much off the average for a comapny with such an in demand product.
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05/01/2006 01:55:46 PM · #223 |
Originally posted by TroyMosley:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I still say we should call for an increase in taxes to make the price of gas ~$6/gallon. If for no other reason than to bring our prices in line with the rest of the world and give us something truly worth complaining about. |
what about the families that are struggling to make ends meet, cant afford a new car, they make minimum wage, are forced to move away from the city to afford rent but must work near the city to get any decent pay, what about those people,
europe is their problem we cant compare Europe and the US, two different ideas, and tax system |
In that case, if they are that close to the edge, gas over $3/gal will probably prove just as devastating. At least with the additional $3/gal in tax revenue, they have some hope of receiving some return in the form of improved services.
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05/01/2006 01:56:19 PM · #224 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
All of them buy from OPEC.
The laws you cite are for the US, not international.
If the oil companies are not fixing prices, why is it that all the gas prices here are identical and should one go up or down, within 5 minutes, ALL the stations here have matched the new price? I think that price fixing is exactly what is happening, but to PROVE it will be impossible. |
That is how Wal-Mart, Best Buy and Circuit City always has the same prices on the same products. They watch each other closely and keep their price competitive. With such a high profile business, if price fixing was in the works someone would spill the beans and be a superhero. I'm not saying it can't be happening, but I doubt it is.
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05/01/2006 02:01:36 PM · #225 |
Originally posted by LoudDog:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
All of them buy from OPEC.
The laws you cite are for the US, not international.
If the oil companies are not fixing prices, why is it that all the gas prices here are identical and should one go up or down, within 5 minutes, ALL the stations here have matched the new price? I think that price fixing is exactly what is happening, but to PROVE it will be impossible. |
That is how Wal-Mart, Best Buy and Circuit City always has the same prices on the same products. They watch each other closely and keep their price competitive. With such a high profile business, if price fixing was in the works someone would spill the beans and be a superhero. I'm not saying it can't be happening, but I doubt it is. |
What's the incentive for someone to spill the beans?
Blacklisting? Being labeled as a troublemaker? The promise of a life of unemployment? Spending YEARS of your life as a witness in the ensuing court battle?
I doubt it's NOT happening, I also doubt that anyone will do anything about it, even if they could.
Message edited by author 2006-05-01 14:02:36.
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