| Author | Thread |
|
|
05/17/2006 10:12:38 AM · #26 |
| Like others who posted, I am a bit disappointed with the entries. Instead of voting low however, I am just skipping a large percentage of the shots. |
|
|
|
05/17/2006 10:15:41 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by sacredspirit:
Trinity, I noticed that too! I mean about the definitions. Personally, I didn't think that floral arrangements met the challenge, but I have been wrong before, and if stood corrected I would change my votes on those particular photos.
It would be nice to have one of the administrators, or Critique Club people come in and clarify. If somebody knows how to invite them please do so. |
I think flower arrangements DO meet the challenge
Again... you see arrangements (IE CUT flowers) in still life paintings often
"growing" flowers no so much...
|
|
|
|
05/17/2006 10:16:04 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by sacredspirit:
Trinity, I noticed that too! I mean about the definitions. Personally, I didn't think that floral arrangements met the challenge, but I have been wrong before, and if stood corrected I would change my votes on those particular photos.
It would be nice to have one of the administrators, or Critique Club people come in and clarify. If somebody knows how to invite them please do so. |
Hello sacredspirit. Flower arrangements are definitely still life. A field of uncut buttercups, daisies, etc are not considered to be so. Check out the very first picture you see when you search for "Still Life" on Wikipedia. Still Life
Message edited by author 2006-05-17 10:19:13.
|
|
|
|
05/17/2006 10:20:38 AM · #29 |
My personal definition of still life is based on what I've seen in paintings and other photographs. That doesnt mean it's right, it just means it is influenced by others both in the traditional sense and from those who take tradition and adapt.
The majority seem to be in a studio or at least give that impression. Flowers and food feature prominently. It seems to be about the placement of a collection of items in a pleasing way that uses light as another feature of the image. I've also seen traditional-looking still lifes that look like they have come straight from a Master Painter but they have included a mouse in a feast of wine and cheese and fruit.
|
|
|
|
05/17/2006 10:27:44 AM · #30 |
Gosh people. Can't we have a challenge without all the debate on what the definition of the challenge is while the voting is going on? Same thing is/has happened on the Environmental Portrait...
Use your OWN mind - THINK - and vote according to what YOU believe. Look it up if you have to I guess, but come on - it's still life! Can't be THAT difficult!
I get the feeling in much of this discussion that it's not so much "I wonder what still life is", but rather taking jabs at certain categories to advance your own agenda. |
|
|
|
05/17/2006 10:33:28 AM · #31 |
I was voting and had to stop because I was confused as to the challenge, basically the meaning of still life. Now I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one. I took a glance at the thumbnails and started voting on a curve because you can't disqualify 80% of the photos.
I was criticized before for having an insect in nature in the Candid Challenge. When Candid by definition means "not posed or rehearsed." You obviously can't pose or rehearse animals in nature. Yet 80% of the still life entries aren't still life. This isn't a post to bitch or moan, but to pose a question.
Do you think that the challenges should have more of or a better definition of what theme is?? This will help the voters and the entries understand the criteria. |
|
|
|
05/17/2006 10:36:02 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by ragamuffingirl:
... I believe flowers, if they're in a vase, pot, whatever do meet the challenge. I think some of us are just sick of seeing them in EVERY challenge. Use some imagination and creativity folks! ... |
These recent entries of yours were quite creative. ;^)
  |
|
|
|
05/17/2006 10:37:14 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by albc28:
... Do you think that the challenges should have more of or a better definition of what theme is?? This will help the voters and the entries understand the criteria. |
It will never happen. No matter how narrowly defined a challenge is these threads will continue to exist. |
|
|
|
05/17/2006 10:37:55 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Gosh people. Can't we have a challenge without all the debate on what the definition of the challenge is while the voting is going on? Same thing is/has happened on the Environmental Portrait...
Use your OWN mind - THINK - and vote according to what YOU believe. Look it up if you have to I guess, but come on - it's still life! Can't be THAT difficult!
I get the feeling in much of this discussion that it's not so much "I wonder what still life is", but rather taking jabs at certain categories to advance your own agenda. |
Normally I would agree, but the folks who are marking down for flowers - all flowers and any flowers - are just blatantly uninformed. About a zillion classic (and classic-style) still life artworks feature cut flowers - in a bouquet, arrangement, vase, water pitcher, etc. Flowers are one of the classic features of still life, fercrissakes!
Monet's still life
Outdoor still life with flowers and fruit
Lex Gonzalez still life
Louise Woodroofe still life
Still Life - Flowers & Fruit by Mary Davidson
Dutch Master Jan van Huysum's Still Life Flowers
Message edited by author 2006-05-17 10:40:09.
|
|
|
|
05/17/2006 10:40:51 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I get the feeling in much of this discussion that it's not so much "I wonder what still life is", but rather taking jabs at certain categories to advance your own agenda. |
No, no silly. Only outtakes can sway votes. :P |
|
|
|
05/17/2006 10:44:46 AM · #36 |
I found the following description very helpful:
"The subjects for still-life pictures are often simple and commonplace. The familiar can be rendered special and significant by the treatment that it's given. Just as trivial words can provide the source for a beautiful song so trivial objects can be arranged to form a beautiful picture.
It's hardly surprising then that photographers since the inception of the medium have sought to emulate the traditional forms of still-life. Experiments have been made to extend the range of the genre and to seek methods of involving the viewer. Cezanne and Salvidor Dali certainly experimented greatly with the accepted form by their distortions of plane and perspective and photographers such as Man Ray and Andre Kertesz in their turn pushed back the boundary lines.
Still life photography presents the photographer with something of a "blank canvas" and in this respect the beginning is closely allied to the traditional, painterly forms of art. Ideally the photographer should be involved in the process of creating the scene, building it up from an empty space and using the shapes, textures, tones and colours presented. Add to this the selection and arrangement of lighting, the various technicalities surrounding exposure, the range of darkroom skills and after treatment and one can readily see that still life work considerably stretches the photographer both artistically and technically.
In still life photography all the elements of picture making are under control. The decisions we make in this genre will teach us a great deal about how the camera "sees". Valuable lessons will be learnt about composition, lighting, contrast, colour harmony and the art of keeping things simple.
Examples of still life are all around and can be found within brochures, catalogues paintings, advertising, magazine and book covers and within fine art galleries. Keeping our senses alerted to such imagery is one method whereby we can gain inspiration and ideas.
Generally speaking, the still life should be a self-contained expression in which each ingredient should make a real contribution to the overall effect. Subsidiary elements should support the main subject and not compete.
A simple way of starting is to experiment with a few household objects and link them with a common visual theme. Try to choose objects with interesting surface textures and characteristics such as garden tools, kitchen implements, glassware, food and fruits for example.
A good way of beginning to understand composition is to start with two or three simple objects, move them around and discover the strongest arrangement. Using a camera mounted on a tripod, the viewpoint can be kept constant, as subject matter is re-positioned. Once the background and principle subjects are established, add secondary items (if any) one at a time, checking through the viewfinder after each addition. Be critical and constantly assess the picture.
Remember, each ingredient in the scene should make a positive contribution to the picture. If in doubt, leave it out! Strive to keep things simple. It's a good idea to make a sketch of successful arrangements so that the technique can be applied again.
A backdrop will usually be necessary and it needs careful consideration, as it will almost inevitably occupy a large portion of the picture area. Keep the backdrop unobtrusive and harmonious, avoid creases, folds and marks.
Lighting is of course critical, as this will influence the mood of the scene. Studio lighting is useful but not essential. Natural daylight can be used to great effect, indeed if you're shooting a scene out of doors, you'll probably have little choice. Daylight through a window is often successfully employed with reflector cards providing fill-in. Whatever lighting is chosen, the first consideration is that of direction. Low angle or cross-lighting will emphasise surface texture and contours and cast long shadows. Shadows thus created will need to be considered as part of the composition. A main light to the front of the set will cause objects to be well recorded but lacking in three-dimension quality. As in portraiture, make good use of back lighting and angular lighting. For the light and airy high-key approach a "soft box" will give even shadowless illumination. Make and sketches about the lighting arrangements not forgetting to note distances and power settings."
|
|
|
|
05/17/2006 10:47:38 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Gosh people. Can't we have a challenge without all the debate on what the definition of the challenge is while the voting is going on? Same thing is/has happened on the Environmental Portrait...
Use your OWN mind - THINK - and vote according to what YOU believe. Look it up if you have to I guess, but come on - it's still life! Can't be THAT difficult!
I get the feeling in much of this discussion that it's not so much "I wonder what still life is", but rather taking jabs at certain categories to advance your own agenda. |
Thank you and well said! Damn I hate threads like this... |
|
|
|
05/17/2006 10:49:29 AM · #38 |
| We're not artists - not painters anyway - but one of the main points of the still life paintings from which the genre takes its name, is that the artist was (is) free to arrange the subject into a visual composition. These leads me to think of a still life as an arranged rather than a serendipitous shot. That makes flower arrangements fit. There are one or two entries that include a flower (or flowers) that work for me, but flowers do have a lot of same old same old to get over. |
|
|
|
05/17/2006 10:52:37 AM · #39 |
| I would agree that flowers in a vase or whatnot would qualify as still life...but I give it an F for originality, and by that logic a dead cat would qualify as well. |
|
|
|
05/17/2006 10:53:07 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by karmabreeze:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Gosh people. Can't we have a challenge without all the debate on what the definition of the challenge is while the voting is going on? Same thing is/has happened on the Environmental Portrait...
Use your OWN mind - THINK - and vote according to what YOU believe. Look it up if you have to I guess, but come on - it's still life! Can't be THAT difficult!
I get the feeling in much of this discussion that it's not so much "I wonder what still life is", but rather taking jabs at certain categories to advance your own agenda. |
Normally I would agree, but the folks who are marking down for flowers - all flowers and any flowers - are just blatantly uninformed. About a zillion classic (and classic-style) still life artworks feature cut flowers - in a bouquet, arrangement, vase, water pitcher, etc. Flowers are one of the classic features of still life, fercrissakes!
Monet's still life
Outdoor still life with flowers and fruit
Lex Gonzalez still life
Louise Woodroofe still life
Still Life - Flowers & Fruit by Mary Davidson
Dutch Master Jan van Huysum's Still Life Flowers |
I for one am so tired of so many flowers in every frigging challenge...
That being said... In this challenge flower arrangements are perfectly acceptable and fully meet the challenge IMHO
Some are done very well... but some members saw this simply as another chance to shoehorn in a flower picture from a garden somewhere and call it a still life. Just my feeling ...
I went through the thumbnails and I found on first glance 31 images that did not meet the definition of "still life" that I have in my mind... that works out to be about 10%. Really not that bad I don't think
|
|
|
|
05/17/2006 10:54:25 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by ragamuffingirl:
... I believe flowers, if they're in a vase, pot, whatever do meet the challenge. I think some of us are just sick of seeing them in EVERY challenge. Use some imagination and creativity folks! ... |
These recent entries of yours were quite creative. ;^)
|
Yes, but I don't enter them into EVERY challenge, do I? I usually enter flowers when I just can't think of anything better. :p
I'm also not voting ALL the flowers low....I think I even put somebody's flower into my favorites. I'm just downing the ones I think DNMC.
Message edited by author 2006-05-17 10:56:25. |
|
|
|
05/17/2006 10:55:29 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by ragamuffingirl:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by ragamuffingirl:
... I believe flowers, if they're in a vase, pot, whatever do meet the challenge. I think some of us are just sick of seeing them in EVERY challenge. Use some imagination and creativity folks! ... |
These recent entries of yours were quite creative. ;^)
|
Yes, but I don't enter them into EVERY challenge, do I? I usually enter flowers when I just can't think of anything better. :p |
Find me one person that enters flowers in every single challenge.
|
|
|
|
05/17/2006 10:55:29 AM · #43 |
most of them are very dark.
|
|
|
|
05/17/2006 10:56:33 AM · #44 |
Regarding the "classic" definition of "still life" and the subject of flowers:
I have a gigantic poster of a Dutch Master still life on my wall, and it's all flowers basically, with accessories. Including bugs, I might add. The Dutch masters were renowned for their still lifes, they sort of defined the genre for a long time. One thing the "classic" still life always contains is a memento mori, a reminder of our mortality; e.g. something dead :-) Another common motif in classic still lifes is the "rustic" still life, often including gutted small game animals draped across the table or hanging on the wall, and rudely-fashioned utensils and plates, goblets etc.
A really great still life is an endlessly fascinating image; I can look at the one on my wall for hours, always finding something new in it.
More modern still lifes are often much simpler and blur the boundaries as far as the classical definition goes. So it's really pretty wide open. But flowers definitely are prime still life subjects, and if ever a challenge were made that welcomed flowers, this is it. Ideally, from my perspective, there'd be MORE than "just" flowers (the classic "DPC stark flowers-against-black shot isn't a still life in the strictest sense, but a "study") but that's just my opinion.
I haven't even looked at the images yet, and I didn't enter this challenge, but my advice would be to relax and look for well-composed, strikingly-lit, interesting groupings of objects. Ther HAVE to be some in there :-)
R.
|
|
|
|
05/17/2006 11:00:19 AM · #45 |
For those voting down for DNMC, hopefully you are leaving comments stating that. My score is much lower than I thought it would be and I don't know if it's because many people see it as DNMC or just don't like it. It's not that the score bothers me, but why it's getting low votes. I cannot learn if I don't know what is wrong with it.
I am becoming more and more convinced that if somebody gives a 1, 2, or 3 score, they should have to leave a comment or the vote doesn't count. Would the trolls go away?? |
|
|
|
05/17/2006 11:04:49 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Regarding the "classic" definition of "still life" and the subject of flowers:
I have a gigantic poster of a Dutch Master still life on my wall, and it's all flowers basically, with accessories. Including bugs, I might add. The Dutch masters were renowned for their still lifes, they sort of defined the genre for a long time. One thing the "classic" still life always contains is a memento mori, a reminder of our mortality; e.g. something dead :-) Another common motif in classic still lifes is the "rustic" still life, often including gutted small game animals draped across the table or hanging on the wall, and rudely-fashioned utensils and plates, goblets etc.
A really great still life is an endlessly fascinating image; I can look at the one on my wall for hours, always finding something new in it.
More modern still lifes are often much simpler and blur the boundaries as far as the classical definition goes. So it's really pretty wide open. But flowers definitely are prime still life subjects, and if ever a challenge were made that welcomed flowers, this is it. Ideally, from my perspective, there'd be MORE than "just" flowers (the classic "DPC stark flowers-against-black shot isn't a still life in the strictest sense, but a "study") but that's just my opinion.
I haven't even looked at the images yet, and I didn't enter this challenge, but my advice would be to relax and look for well-composed, strikingly-lit, interesting groupings of objects. Ther HAVE to be some in there :-)
R. |
EXCELLENT definition and incredibly well said! Bear Music rocks.
{{{ Rachel jumps up to give a standing ovation }}} |
|
|
|
05/17/2006 11:05:49 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Regarding the "classic" definition of "still life" and the subject of flowers:
I have a gigantic poster of a Dutch Master still life on my wall, and it's all flowers basically, with accessories. Including bugs, I might add. The Dutch masters were renowned for their still lifes, they sort of defined the genre for a long time. One thing the "classic" still life always contains is a memento mori, a reminder of our mortality; e.g. something dead :-) Another common motif in classic still lifes is the "rustic" still life, often including gutted small game animals draped across the table or hanging on the wall, and rudely-fashioned utensils and plates, goblets etc.
A really great still life is an endlessly fascinating image; I can look at the one on my wall for hours, always finding something new in it.
More modern still lifes are often much simpler and blur the boundaries as far as the classical definition goes. So it's really pretty wide open. But flowers definitely are prime still life subjects, and if ever a challenge were made that welcomed flowers, this is it. Ideally, from my perspective, there'd be MORE than "just" flowers (the classic "DPC stark flowers-against-black shot isn't a still life in the strictest sense, but a "study") but that's just my opinion.
I haven't even looked at the images yet, and I didn't enter this challenge, but my advice would be to relax and look for well-composed, strikingly-lit, interesting groupings of objects. Ther HAVE to be some in there :-)
R. |
I think the key is "group," or it is to me. I see many that are just one thing. Maybe that is the modern interpretation, but I am looking for things artfully placed together. If it has a flower arrangement with other things, that's ok, but a single flower? Hmmmmm not so sure.
|
|
|
|
05/17/2006 11:07:37 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Regarding the "classic" definition of "still life" and the subject of flowers:
I have a gigantic poster of a Dutch Master still life on my wall, and it's all flowers basically, with accessories. Including bugs, I might add. The Dutch masters were renowned for their still lifes, they sort of defined the genre for a long time. One thing the "classic" still life always contains is a memento mori, a reminder of our mortality; e.g. something dead :-) Another common motif in classic still lifes is the "rustic" still life, often including gutted small game animals draped across the table or hanging on the wall, and rudely-fashioned utensils and plates, goblets etc.
A really great still life is an endlessly fascinating image; I can look at the one on my wall for hours, always finding something new in it.
More modern still lifes are often much simpler and blur the boundaries as far as the classical definition goes. So it's really pretty wide open. But flowers definitely are prime still life subjects, and if ever a challenge were made that welcomed flowers, this is it. Ideally, from my perspective, there'd be MORE than "just" flowers (the classic "DPC stark flowers-against-black shot isn't a still life in the strictest sense, but a "study") but that's just my opinion.
I haven't even looked at the images yet, and I didn't enter this challenge, but my advice would be to relax and look for well-composed, strikingly-lit, interesting groupings of objects. Ther HAVE to be some in there :-)
R. |
"Here come da Bear!....bringing infinate sanity to to any conversation! :)
You are right on the money about the classic still life and the aspect of the memento mori but I am not sure that it was a repeating theme in a lot of the Dutch work was it? (I could be very wrong)
The TRUE common themes was the rich directional lighting and strong compositional aspects...
|
|
|
|
05/17/2006 11:10:51 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by queanbeez:
most of them are very dark. |
"traditional" still life sometimes is fairly "dark" ... not always though
|
|
|
|
05/17/2006 11:11:21 AM · #50 |
Why is it there are unending nitpicking discussions about what does and does not not meet a challenge but few on how to take a good photograph for one?
|
|
