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05/19/2006 05:25:10 PM · #201 |
Originally posted by yanko:
I love how this argument about DNMC only deals with extreme examples when those aren't the typical DNMC entries we get in challenges.
Even Jmnuggy's example which he even admits to was DNMC yet it was considered a perfect image one that was 100% within the theme according to keegbow. And that's why it just floors me that people dish out 1s so easily. Ever think you might be spectacularly wrong about an image's validity in a challenge? Hence why I only deduct a couple of points because I know I am no expert and I could be wrong. Handing out ones is like the death penalty to an image. At best those should be handed out very rarely when doubt is completely non-existent and you spent more than 2 seconds thinking about it. Anyway, just my two cents.
Edited for clarity. |
This is what I said on the first page of this thread.
Originally posted by keegbow:
I'm thinking the same thing and I usually reward out of the box interpretations but I can't reward out of the planet interpretations. |
I like to see out of the box interpretations and do not penalise but when your dealing with a whole genre of photography or art like still life and you don't submit a still life I will vote it down that means a 3 or 4 from me.
It's like seeing a portraite in a landscape challenge it DNMC sorry that is just my opinion which is one of many here and thats what i like about the place we all can agree to agree or disagree.
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05/19/2006 05:34:08 PM · #202 |
Oh I actually remember your earlier post. I think we just differ on the number of entries deemed "out of the planet". Hey, you may be right about the number of entries in this challenge but I don't agree that we get 10% of these major DNMC violations in every challenge. That number is way too high based on the challenges I have voted on.
Edited for spelling.
Message edited by author 2006-05-19 17:35:10.
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05/19/2006 05:35:17 PM · #203 |
And where are we supposed to draw the line? A styrafoam cup is not a basketball, but how about a pic of a soccer ball? To me that would be DNMC. How about a basketball hoop, or basketball shoes? Basketball court? If the challenge description says: "Take your best shot of a basketball, make sure the basketball is the subject, be creative and have fun" where would you draw the line?
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05/19/2006 05:36:35 PM · #204 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Oh I actually remember your earlier post. I think we just differ on the number of entries deemed "out of the planet". Hey, you may be right about the number of entries in this challenge but I don't agree that we get 10% of these major DNMC violations in every challenge. That number is way too high based on the challenges I have voted on.
Edited for spelling. |
Yes your probably right in the fact 10% of most challenges would be over the top.
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05/19/2006 05:37:53 PM · #205 |
I think the line would be it needs to have a basketball in it. Seems simple to me. What's not simple is "convey success" or something like that. When the challenge has a lot of interpretations the number of DNMC entries should be much lower than something like a basketball challenge. Again, Still Life is probably more like your basketball example but that's not the case with a lot of the challenges.
Message edited by author 2006-05-19 17:38:50.
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05/19/2006 05:39:24 PM · #206 |
Originally posted by chaimelle:
And where are we supposed to draw the line? A styrafoam cup is not a basketball, but how about a pic of a soccer ball? To me that would be DNMC. How about a basketball hoop, or basketball shoes? Basketball court? If the challenge description says: "Take your best shot of a basketball, make sure the basketball is the subject, be creative and have fun" where would you draw the line? |
Thats an individual thing the line is where you the voter want to put it. In this challenge there is a clear divide of where that line should be to me but that is just me.
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05/19/2006 05:47:22 PM · #207 |
Originally posted by chaimelle:
Maybe keegbow was wrong? If the challenge says take a shot of a basketball and you submit a styrofoam cup (to borrow an earlier example) someone might think it meets the challenge, but I bet 99.9% would say it doesn't. |
I take a different approach. I would vote the styrofoam cup for what it is worth but I would not give it extra points for meeting the challenge well. My philosophy is to look for reasons to vote images higher, not for voting them lower.
I'm not saying my way is better or worse than anyone else's. My way is based on a voting experience I had a long, long time ago...
In a past challenge I was one of the many people that gave an image a "1". It wasn't very good anyway and finished dead last. It got the "1" from me because it clearly looked to be flaunting the challenge topic.
Later, someone started a discussion about that very photograph and I reviewed it's image description. In it was a very deep and touching explanation from the photographer about how the image met the challenge.
I do not believe that photographer ever submitted again. I am not proud of the role I played in discouraging that person from participating and learning at DPC.
I quit second guessing photographer's intentions after that.
Note:
Guess what? I was able to relocate the image I was talking about. Now I'll give the DNMCers the ammunition needed to discredit my viewpoint. LOL!!
Message edited by author 2006-05-19 18:13:59.
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05/19/2006 06:15:22 PM · #208 |
Originally posted by yanko:
I think the line would be it needs to have a basketball in it. Seems simple to me. What's not simple is "convey success" or something like that. When the challenge has a lot of interpretations the number of DNMC entries should be much lower than something like a basketball challenge. Again, Still Life is probably more like your basketball example but that's not the case with a lot of the challenges. |
I totally agree. There have been many challenges more open to interpretation where almost all entries meet the challenge in some way, although there are always a few that are just too far out for me.
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05/19/2006 06:25:42 PM · #209 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
Originally posted by chaimelle:
Maybe keegbow was wrong? If the challenge says take a shot of a basketball and you submit a styrofoam cup (to borrow an earlier example) someone might think it meets the challenge, but I bet 99.9% would say it doesn't. |
I take a different approach. I would vote the styrofoam cup for what it is worth but I would not give it extra points for meeting the challenge well. My philosophy is to look for reasons to vote images higher, not for voting them lower.
I'm not saying my way is better or worse than anyone else's. My way is based on a voting experience I had a long, long time ago...
In a past challenge I was one of the many people that gave an image a "1". It wasn't very good anyway and finished dead last. It got the "1" from me because it clearly looked to be flaunting the challenge topic.
Later, someone started a discussion about that very photograph and I reviewed it's image description. In it was a very deep and touching explanation from the photographer about how the image met the challenge.
I do not believe that photographer ever submitted again. I am not proud of the role I played in discouraging that person from participating and learning at DPC.
I quit second guessing photographer's intentions after that.
Note:
Guess what? I was able to relocate the image I was talking about. Now I'll give the DNMCers the ammunition needed to discredit my viewpoint. LOL!!
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The fact that she thought it was an urban landscape does not make her right. She even acknowledges that she did not have the elements listed in the challenge description. I assume this was one of the few challenges she entered and perhaps did not like having her work evaluated or critqued. Even had the shot met the challenge I doubt it would have scored very high. I think she could have learned a lot had she stuck around, but not everybody likes competition, losing, or maybe she just didn't have the time to worry about meeting challenge deadlines.
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05/19/2006 07:22:20 PM · #210 |
Originally posted by chaimelle:
And where are we supposed to draw the line? A styrafoam cup is not a basketball, but how about a pic of a soccer ball? To me that would be DNMC. How about a basketball hoop, or basketball shoes? Basketball court? If the challenge description says: "Take your best shot of a basketball, make sure the basketball is the subject, be creative and have fun" where would you draw the line? |
you're comparing apples to oranges here, though...or, at least, comparing specific to abstract. you're exactly right about a photo of a styrofoam cup not meeting the challenge in the midst of a basketball challenge. and i can understand (although, i've never given a 1 to any photo in any of the challenges) giving low scores for the photo of a cup. that is a specific subject clearly stated and not open to interpretation (except here at DPC apparently). when we get into the more abstract challenge topics the DNMC line gets a little harder to draw...at least it does for me. i'm certainly no expert in all schools of photographic styles and i'm no mind reader to decide how a photo meets the challenge for each particular photographer. i give them the benefit of the doubt and trust that they had a personal reason for entering a photo that i can't see, at first glance, how it relates to the challenge topic. i then score the image based on technical and emotional content even though i may not perceive the connection to the topic.
as i said before, though, these are just my opinions. i don't have any photos in any of the current challenges so i'm not biased toward any particular style or subject.
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05/19/2006 08:43:39 PM · #211 |
Originally posted by chaimelle:
I think she could have learned a lot had she stuck around |
yes, but probably the wrong things. it's clear to me that she has a good feel for giving a picture a mood. DPC would have encouraged her to "focus" and "light her subject properly" and "use the rule of thirds" with no regard to how those techniques create an overall feeling in a picture. I hope she's off in a cave somewhere taking beautiful pictures that an archaeologist of pure heart will find centuries from now... um... give me a minute to let the meds kick in... |
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05/19/2006 09:23:02 PM · #212 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by chaimelle:
I think she could have learned a lot had she stuck around |
yes, but probably the wrong things. it's clear to me that she has a good feel for giving a picture a mood. DPC would have encouraged her to "focus" and "light her subject properly" and "use the rule of thirds" with no regard to how those techniques create an overall feeling in a picture. I hope she's off in a cave somewhere taking beautiful pictures that an archaeologist of pure heart will find centuries from now... um... give me a minute to let the meds kick in... |
It is impossible to say if what she would have learned here would have been right or wrong--for her. If she was happy with her shot and her style leans more toward "artsy" she probably would not have found this site helpful. If she desired to take sharp, balanced, sharply focused photos this would have been a good place to learn. Nothing wrong with either style, or any style for that matter as long as you (the photographer) like the art you are creating.
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05/19/2006 09:26:48 PM · #213 |
Originally posted by chaimelle:
It is impossible to say if what she would have learned here would have been right or wrong--for her. If she was happy with her shot and her style leans more toward "artsy" she probably would not have found this site helpful. If she desired to take sharp, balanced, sharply focused photos this would have been a good place to learn. Nothing wrong with either style, or any style for that matter as long as you (the photographer) like the art you are creating. |
DPC is a perfectly good place to learn as long as you understand the parameters. I'm in agreement with you, but I would like to point out that I am not refering to "artsy," a style, but "art." "Art" can be applied to any style, any medium, any moment. It can raise up gods and bring down kings. It can even roflmao. |
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