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03/24/2003 08:58:56 PM · #1 |
With all the discussion of editting and the rules around editting, i wonder if it would be fun to have a challenge where no editting was a loud. Maybe a crop here and there, but no editting, no borders, etc....
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03/24/2003 09:26:00 PM · #2 |
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03/24/2003 10:37:30 PM · #3 |
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03/24/2003 10:40:03 PM · #4 |
I'm not against it, but I'm not sure what the purpose of this project would be...
Why limit a photographer's ability to make the image as good as it can be? I, personally, enjoy wading through 200+ photos that are as good as they can be rather than 200+ that aren't...
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03/24/2003 11:28:14 PM · #5 |
I like this idea for a challenge, I do my very best NOT to do any post processing to any of my pics I submit for the challenges (other than cropping) and I have turned out a few pics that are decent. Im not saying im a great photographer and can nail a perfect pic every time. I just try to get the look and feel I want from the subject by using the cameras abilities, not the abilities of the PC and image editing program.
James
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03/24/2003 11:47:38 PM · #6 |
it's an interesting concept, but some people will definatly have an advantage depending on the equipment. most of the higher level cams have neat features like histograms and such right on their lcd. Also, the higher megapixel and quality of the cam, the less noise it'll generate. With my more limited camera, i could go on a whole series of images, and they could all turn out too dark or too bright by the time i end up uploading them. I adjust the levels on just about every image i take, and reduce noise to some extent with neatimage on many also. Now, this isn't as bad if it's a studio shot in a controlled enviroment.. but if it was something "spur of the moment", and was only able to get a dozen shots while i was miles from my house, i could very well throw them away if my camera didn't evaluate the exposure correctly.. That being said, depending on the topic itself.. i'd be for or against this idea of the challenge :)
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03/24/2003 11:51:15 PM · #7 |
Interesting idea. I often prepare a photo knowing that I will do certain things after it is taken. However, my last three images have hardly had anything done to them besides cropping.
WHen one takes into consideration the limitations of digital cameras, they are not as good as regular cameras in several ways, so a little post processing is often required, especially considering that some digital cameras are far better than others.
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03/25/2003 12:20:49 AM · #8 |
I'm not sure what the purpose of this excercise would be either. The majority of digital cameras are made with post processing in mind. Since you can't simply swap out different types of films for more or lest contrast and color values it would not be smart for manufacturers to build cameras that pushed those limits too far. There needs to be a little bit of room for the user to have control of the images. Not that the majority of images need a lot of image editing but most need, at least, a little bit of levels adjustments, color correcting, and sharpening. I know there are more and more cameras that have more choices over saturation, contrast, and sharpening, but it is generally agreed upon that the actual fine tuning of an image is best to do on a larger monitor with controlled lighting as apposed to the small LCD screens out in the field. Allowing for some latitude even if you can push the camera values farther allows for the best image possible.
T
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03/25/2003 12:29:38 AM · #9 |
The rules as they are already limit the post editing very much. I think they're OK just like that. Limiting more would be a nonsense since post editing is part of today's digital photography.
DrJOnes |
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03/25/2003 12:40:07 AM · #10 |
there was a members challenge that gave a FREE for all on ANY image editing that one could desire....( i think there was...or was it discussed and not done??) so why not go the opposite way and take the best shot your camera will take with the only editing being cropping/resizing so it will fit the image size and file size standards.
Heck I will break out my 4 year old casio camera for this one.....
James
Originally posted by DrJOnes:
The rules as they are already limit the post editing very much. I think they're OK just like that. Limiting more would be a nonsense since post editing is part of today's digital photography.
DrJOnes |
Message edited by author 2003-03-25 00:45:36.
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03/25/2003 01:07:07 AM · #11 |
I guess it depends on which end you choose to focus your challenge. For me, I'd rather spend 3 hours shooting and ten minutes in Photoshop than vice versa. A few people have mentioned not understanding the point. I don't understand the point of having challenges like "green" and then having a bunch of people who shoot things that aren't green and just flip colors in an editing program.
I was originally against all kinds of editing and didn't do any to my own photos. I'm slowly coming around and understanding that part of digital photography is the post-processing, but I don't think that it would hurt at all to have a challenge like this. I mean, what is the "point" to any of these challenges? |
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03/25/2003 01:15:53 AM · #12 |
I think I agree with this idea because I would really like to see what you guys can come up with outside of PS - maybe it's unrealistic, but so is the every Sunday rush to the computer to see what I'm shooting this week. It's unrealistic to limit ourselves the way we already do, but we do...I think this would challenge people a bit and be fun to try composing IN camera.
:)
M
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03/25/2003 01:58:45 AM · #13 |
I certainly won't put up too much of a fight for an 'absolutley no editing' challenge but I would like to respond to the question of, "What is the point to any of these challenges?" For me the point of these challenges is to learn how to create great photographs, plain and simple. When I am out taking photos for these challenges or for myself I want to give myself the best opportunity to create a great photo. Since a photo is a representation of a slice of time that will never occur again, at least, when I am outside shooting, I want to make sure I don't miss the photo opportunities I find. To help me create the best photo I can I will use whatever tools are available and this, of course, includes my image editor. So, with this in mind I will often give myself a little bit of lattitude, such as in the framing and the exposurer knowing that if I go too far in the other direction I can ruin the photo. I will then fine tune the image in PS to get it to my liking. Don't get me wrong, I like trying to capture the best possible shot right from the camera but sometimes it can be difficult to know for sure on the small screen and it's nice to know that I can be certain later in PS. Trying to submit a nice photo for these challenges is a lot of fun but trying to capture the best possible photo for myself is more important.
T
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03/25/2003 07:36:16 AM · #14 |
| I would like this also. It seems that some folks, myself included, can be put at a disadvantage becasue we aren't proficient with Photoshop. |
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03/25/2003 07:43:56 AM · #15 |
People with Canon DSLR's couldn't really compete in a challenge like that. Canon employs a low pass filter to soften the image and help remove moire's. Because of this all Canon DSLR images really neeed USM and some level moves of some sort to get the image up to any type of a standard.
Nothing the photographer can do. Even spiking in camera sharpening won't do it...
Dave
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03/25/2003 08:25:49 AM · #16 |
| I think a no editing challenge could be a real show of who can take a photo without doing any editing. Would be like the art of 35mm. You certainly can't edit a 35mm the way you can digital you had to be really good at what you did and having a challenge with no editing would be showing who is really good and who knows how to use photoshop or paintshop to enhance there works. |
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03/25/2003 09:34:34 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by Davenit:
People with Canon DSLR's couldn't really compete in a challenge like that. |
Kind of evens it out for people who don't have Photoshop or other software of that caliber. |
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03/25/2003 09:48:15 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by Davenit:
People with Canon DSLR's couldn't really compete in a challenge like that. |
It would be extremely funny to see the peeps with expensive cameras moaning that the cheapo cameras had an unfair advantage for a change ; )
I actually wouldn't mind a challenge like this so long as Unsharp Mask was allowed, everything else I could live without. |
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03/25/2003 10:01:54 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
I think a no editing challenge could be a real show of who can take a photo without doing any editing. Would be like the art of 35mm. You certainly can't edit a 35mm the way you can digital you had to be really good at what you did and having a challenge with no editing would be showing who is really good and who knows how to use photoshop or paintshop to enhance there works. |
I have to disagree a bit here... there are countless "editing" or post-processing techniques even in the film world. I'm more familiar with the B/W side of things, but aside from simple cropping, there are countless darkroom techniques that can enhance an otherwise ordinary (or even marginal) shot. Granted, playing in the darkroom is a heck of a lot more fun than fiddling in Photoshop (or PSP in my case), but the ability to adjust an exposure after it is captured on film is not much different than what is already allowed here at DPC. |
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03/25/2003 11:24:28 AM · #20 |
Maybe "no editing" should be a 24 hour challenge. We can use the time to compose and not edit - and then the people who don't really like it can skip it.
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03/25/2003 11:31:12 AM · #21 |
| Remember that this is a suggestion for A CHALLENGE, not changing the site rules. It is not about whether or not certain manipulations have a corrsponding analog technique. You could easily be given the same restrictions for a film-based assignment -- a straight print without cropping or adjusting the image. I don't especially want to DO it myself, but I think it's a perfectly reasonable (occasional) challenge... |
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04/16/2003 02:48:27 PM · #22 |
I think it might be interesting to try for an occasional challenge - though I'm not sure how we could actually tell that the picture wasn't
altered. For example, I could shoot in RAW mode and do all sorts of adjustments in the intial convertion to the first useable JPEG version of the file. No photoshop, all just converting it into a JPEG that could be uploaded.
The Canon cameras are reasonably soft out of the camera, but certainly the results I get with a good lens, on my D60 are perfectly sharp without having to do additional USM/ adjustments, e.g.
Straight from the camera, no post processing other than the in camera exposure, sat/ contrast and sharpness settings, with a touch of resizing and a $60 lens. (batch converted from RAW - no photoshop) |
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04/16/2003 03:03:52 PM · #23 |
i think it's a fine challenge for the photographers with cameras that allow in-camera adjustments, but one that i and others with lower-end cameras would not be able to compete.
how about making it just a point & shoot challenge...no in-camera adjustments allowed other than focusing and no post processing other than resizing?
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04/16/2003 03:07:28 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by sher9204:
i think it's a fine challenge for the photographers with cameras that allow in-camera adjustments, but one that i and others with lower-end cameras would not be able to compete.
how about making it just a point & shoot challenge...no in-camera adjustments allowed other than focusing and no post processing other than resizing? |
So I'm hearing in this thread that high end cameras would be at a disadvantage because post-processing is almost required.
I'm also hearing low-end cameras would be at a disadvantage because they require post-processing. By the way, the Olympus D-460z has about the same in camera adjustments as the Canon D60 has, with sharpness controls, exposure compensation and white balance (no contrast/ saturation)
So it's a universally unfair challenge, or is it just fair on the people that haven't downloaded decent postprocessing tools (which can be had for free) and learned how to use them ?
Post-processing is part of digital and film photography - maybe we should run classes or something...
Message edited by author 2003-04-16 15:12:49. |
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04/16/2003 03:35:23 PM · #25 |
I think the point would be to get it as close to perfect as you can in the camera and not need the post processing. This really demands that you know your camera well and that your photography skills are pretty decent. I know many cameras will allow you to adjust the amount of in-camera sharpening, contrast, saturationâ€Â¦ If you have a D30 or whatever DSLR you can just bump up the contrast and sharpeningâ€Â¦ The only thing that I would be unhappy with is that you can’t sharpen after you resized your picture. I have definitely noticed that reducing the resolution results in pictures that usually need some USM to not look soft.
Greg
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