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05/29/2003 07:19:11 PM · #76 |
Alright, Rydergal is a wrassler. :) You're in.
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05/29/2003 10:35:44 PM · #77 |
Just think of all the photographing time you are missing by wasting your time quibbling.
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05/30/2003 12:13:49 AM · #78 |
Would ketchup or ketchup-like substances be considered liquids (in non-frozen form) Just trying to get a better grasp of the subject.
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05/30/2003 02:34:10 AM · #79 |
Originally posted by Maverick:
Would ketchup or ketchup-like substances be considered liquids (in non-frozen form) Just trying to get a better grasp of the subject. |
Of course they are, Mavrick. Damn, I was gonna photograph tomato sauce! LOL...there goes my "original" idea down the drain, and back to the drawing board :) |
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05/30/2003 04:59:30 AM · #80 |
Yeah, just imagine.
Originally posted by clues56:
Just think of all the photographing time you are missing by wasting your time quibbling. |
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05/30/2003 12:32:37 PM · #81 |
Just testing to see how non-viscuous a substance we can safely use (I'm sure there is a better word, I can't think of it).
Originally posted by shadow:
Originally posted by Maverick:
Would ketchup or ketchup-like substances be considered liquids (in non-frozen form) Just trying to get a better grasp of the subject. |
Of course they are, Mavrick. Damn, I was gonna photograph tomato sauce! LOL...there goes my "original" idea down the drain, and back to the drawing board :) |
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05/30/2003 12:46:53 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by Wes:
Originally posted by sunflower:
The liquid state of any type of matter, e.g. like the liquid mercury in a thermometer? |
Just to make sure everyone knows Mercury is not a safe substance to handle. It's highly poisonous and can kill you. It's not just dangerous if you consumed, just being in contact with mercury can be dangerous, and breathing in vapors can also... Here's a site that explains how to safely handle mercury:
Safely Handling Mercury
A mercury shot would probably look really good, but is it worth the risk of death? |
As I understand it, there is a lost underground city of the dead in China that has rivers and pools of flowing mercury! That would be fun to photograph! |
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05/30/2003 02:33:29 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by qachyk:
Okay, see, I might agree with this if people were being specific. But saying "Pepto-bismol" or "magma" is fairly generic. If now instead of two people doing magma there are 15, you will still have 15 different pictures, barring interesting coincidence. Different lighting, different focal points, different skill levels, etc.
Plus, honestly, even if the ideas aren't posted here, those fifteen people without ideas are going to go looking for them somewhere -- other sites, photography books, asking their friends, whatever, so I don't think it matters whether it's here or elsewhere. *shrug* |
Medication might be general, Pepto-Bismol is pretty specific. Magma, on the other hand is very limited by location. You either have access or you don't, and there aren't very many locations in the world where you can get to it easily.
If 15 people go looking for ideas in the whole wide world, there's a practically infinite pool to draw from, the possibility that they come up with the same idea is very remote (relatively speaking). If a great idea is posted here, those same 15 people are suddenly focussed away from that infinite pool (how do you like the liquid analogy?) and in on a very specific and limited list of ideas. In a sense, it's not only a disservice to someone who naturally came up with the idea, but also to those who were stuck for an idea because you've planted one in their mind, instead of letting them exercise their creativity and come up with one on their own. The power of suggestion is very strong.
Message edited by author 2003-05-30 14:47:18. |
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05/30/2003 02:38:40 PM · #84 |
I think a one or two word description about an idea for an image really doesn't 'give away' a whole lot about the subject. Almost all of the ideas that people think are original are ones that a lot of people have thought of. The great image is usually in the execution, not the basic thought.
Giving really detailed descriptions of subject, lighting conditions, camera angle etc might start to give some indication on how to duplicate it, but even within that scope there is a huge range for creativity.
I could have posted 'I'm going to take a picture of a spoon' for the Matrix challenge - does that mean that I've given away the shot I got third place with ? hardly. |
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05/30/2003 02:56:33 PM · #85 |
The quality of the photograph is probably going to usually carry more weight than the originality of the idea, but on the other hand, the well can be poisoned.
Another thought of how throwing out ideas can cause damage: even if you had the idea originally, and even if it's not that novel or unique, and even if noone else uses it, there's now a public perception that the idea came from the discussion, not from your own head. I've seen several reasonably good ideas thrown around with a chuckle and a LOL attached - now that idea has been belittled, and it may take on a tainted image to some who follow the discussion. And a paranoid kinda person might even suggest that someone could get a great idea, shoot a great shot, then start spreading other ideas to take the luster off them.
And yet another thought - seeing your idea talked about, or worse laughed about, in the discussion may lead you to try to find a different idea, wasting time and effort that could have gone into doing the original idea better, leading to a rushed and inferior "second best" choice.
In the end, I'm somewhere in the middle ground, leaning towards the "don't discuss" camp. Like I said above, I don't think having your idea mentioned will break a great photo. But I think the repricusions go beyond simply potentially having more people using the idea.
Message edited by author 2003-05-30 14:58:23. |
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05/30/2003 03:20:40 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by dsidwell:
As I understand it, there is a lost underground city of the dead in China that has rivers and pools of flowing mercury! That would be fun to photograph! |
Well, there goes my idea! |
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05/30/2003 05:58:27 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by ScottK:
Medication might be general, Pepto-Bismol is pretty specific. |
It was at this point that I realized this discussion will change no one's mind.
"Pepto-Bismol" is not anything like what I consider very specific, so we are obviously approaching this from entirely different universes of mindset.
(Specific, to me, would include setting or angle or or other details of shot setup, not just one element, even if it's the central element.)
Also, I've been going through the challenge archive, including looking at comments, and I've yet to see a single comment that said "Oh, you just got this idea from the forums, didn't you?" In fact, sometimes even when there was a trend of picture types, there has been quite a large difference in scores -- as witness, for instance, complaints about flower pictures and number of flower entries nothwithstanding, the fact that the #4 shot in 'complementary colors' is a flower, or the various placements of the 'red pill/blue pill' entries in the Matrix, for recent examples.
So, er, I'm not really concerned about it. Any idea I have will probably be duplicated by someone, and anyhow, I'm not going to score well. :) |
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05/30/2003 06:07:25 PM · #88 |
MY idea (already entered) hasn't been mentioned in the long list here. So, I'm feeling pretty darned cocky!
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05/30/2003 06:38:13 PM · #89 |
Originally posted by qachyk:
It was at this point that I realized this discussion will change no one's mind. |
Discussions don't have to change peoples minds to be of value. I read a lot of complaints (and I don't recall it being from you, so I'm not directing this at you, just in general) from people where, whoever is in opposition to them on a given point (usually relating to judging criteria) is "closed minded". This is usually coming from someone who is judging the other person for not agreeing with them, and they're staunchly, stubornly set in their opinion. That's both closed minded and hypocritical! (Irony is a wonderful reality check.)
Back to the topic - I'm not necessarily trying to convince anyone of anything, just hoping to make them consider the effects of their actions on others. Everyone has (more or less) the right to post whatever they want here. But in any successfull society, people have to go beyond focussing on their own rights and consider the effects of their actions on others. If you're causing distress to others, maybe you should consider consraining yourself for their sake. It's a concept lost in today's society... (OK, enough social commentary...)
Originally posted by qachyk:
"Pepto-Bismol" is not anything like what I consider very specific, so we are obviously approaching this from entirely different universes of mindset.
(Specific, to me, would include setting or angle or or other details of shot setup, not just one element, even if it's the central element.) |
I guess we were just talking about it from two different perspective. Since the general issue seems to be the posting of subject ideas (I don't think anyone's posted any ideas on how to shoot, like you described, but just what to shoot - subject matter), I was talking about that perspective. Pepto-bismol is a pretty specific subject - and pretty recognizable, being pink and gooey. So I understand now what you're saying, and yes, Pepto-bismol could be shot in a million different ways, but the conversation, I don't think, was centered on that.
Originally posted by qachyk:
Also, I've been going through the challenge archive, including looking at comments, and I've yet to see a single comment that said "Oh, you just got this idea from the forums, didn't you?" In fact, sometimes even when there was a trend of picture types, there has been quite a large difference in scores -- as witness, for instance, complaints about flower pictures and number of flower entries nothwithstanding, the fact that the #4 shot in 'complementary colors' is a flower, or the various placements of the 'red pill/blue pill' entries in the Matrix, for recent examples. |
I have often seen comments in the forums along the lines of "I'm so sick of looking at pictures of *****" - you fill in the blank. I even did get a comment or two on my Weather challenge about the number of cloud shots - I got lucky there that they seemed to like mine, out of all the others. And someone posted a comment on one of the matrix results threads in the last day or so that he has in fact gotten comments that his shot would have done better if the idea hadn't been discussed in the forums. (That's anecdotal, but, hey, it's what we have to go by.)
And again, I don't think this whole thing makes or breaks a given shot. But it is obviously leading to frustration on the part of quite a few people. So, why do that to people? Just because you can, and no one can stop you? Kinda rude and childish. (Not you personally, but the attitude.)
Originally posted by qachyk:
So, er, I'm not really concerned about it. Any idea I have will probably be duplicated by someone, and anyhow, I'm not going to score well. :) |
Ah, your adopting the same fatalistic attitude as I am! I spent hours working on my Matrix shot (which I kinda liked) - 4.3 all week. I spent about 30 minutes on my Home Sweet Home shot (and it really kinda sucks) - currently running at 4.5. Ya gotta laugh... :)
Message edited by author 2003-05-30 21:10:59. |
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06/01/2003 02:31:19 AM · #90 |
Originally posted by Jak:
MY idea (already entered) hasn't been mentioned in the long list here. So, I'm feeling pretty darned cocky! |
Jak, let me guess.....it's a liquid! LOL |
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06/01/2003 03:33:36 PM · #91 |
Originally posted by Jak:
MY idea (already entered) hasn't been mentioned in the long list here. So, I'm feeling pretty darned cocky! |
Mine either, Jak. So, I am expecting a large turnout of subjects just like mine! :-)
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06/01/2003 09:19:52 PM · #92 |
Pressure is building up. It's Monday and I still havent the slightest idea what I'm gonna shoot for the Liquid challenge. Hey is toothpaste liquid or solid? What about melted butter on a frying pan? hey....
Maybe I'll just have a mental breakdown and submit a flower photo. I'm sure the voters are forgiving people and will gimme good score for a well shot photo of a flower LOL |
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