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10/08/2002 07:13:42 AM · #76 |
Is it at all possible that you may have confused the meaning of the image. I look at this picture and I dont see someone bashing someone else's religion. What i see is the complete opposite.... the book is making a statement to the tune of "what could/would have been garbage has been turned into something useful".
I really honestly doubt the author of this image really meant to upset you all. What I see is a positive statement about recycling.
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10/08/2002 09:52:07 AM · #77 |
"jonny_4_president" was to first to take protective stance toward the picture so I looked at his profile and read his bio. Guess what, he's probably the photographer.
I am also a bit dissettled by the poor reasoning expressed in some of the above comments. Some of you really need to learn to think clearly and not confuse things with rhetoric and double-talk. Condemning smoking, a known health hazard with absolutely no beneficial or redeeming value, has absolutely no comparison to finding fault with a belief system that is supposed to enrich peoples lives. Agreed, many of those attending churches are hypocrites, but that doesn't negate the value of the Bible. |
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10/08/2002 12:27:48 PM · #78 |
| Does anyone else see a positive image within the photograph in question? Am I going crazy here?! |
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10/08/2002 12:34:52 PM · #79 |
If I may jump in here... I think that a LOT of ASSUMPTIONS have been made about this particular photo. Keep an open mind... Allow yourself to see alternative interpretaions... Don't let a knee-jerk reaction blind you from seeing something you might enjoy :)
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10/08/2002 12:35:42 PM · #80 |
There are many interpretations, yours may be the right one. This could be a "one man's garbage" message. I really do not know what the point was, and I am not going to infer anything at this time.
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10/08/2002 01:34:26 PM · #81 |
Please keep this discussion on photography and perhaps its social impact -- NOT on whether Christianity is right or wrong.
Drew |
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10/08/2002 01:51:29 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by zadore:
Give it up already...move on...it's clear that whoever took that photo wanted to see a thread this long about it...he/she is NOT an artist, he/she is desperate for attention...that's all.
DREWMEDIA, I wonder why you haven't put a lock on this thread and taken the photo out of the competition. I wonder if I had taken a photo of an american flag for this challenge, if it would still be up??
What is the purpose of art if not to stir a reaction, and make the viewer react, think, or feel something? In that respect, I think this entry was tremendously successful, regardless of how it scores.
As for the thread, I see no reason to lock it. This has been (in my own personal opinion) one of the most stimulating discussions of the nature of art I have seen on this site in some time. As long as the thread stays mostly on that topic it will be allowed to continue.
-Terry
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10/08/2002 02:19:57 PM · #83 |
| I think everyone needs a hug! :) |
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10/08/2002 02:22:55 PM · #84 |
Let me first say that I apologize if I offended you in any way with my previous posts. It wasn't my position, but I was somewhat ANNOYED when people start to call for censorship of an image simply for the disagreement of the message. I think it's pretty clear that most people vote SUBJECTIVELY on this site (i.e. if they like it to their personal taste, they vote 8-10...). I am already annoyed when people vote an image because it doesn't agree with their taste down to a 1 or 2, but to have it disqualified because several people gets "offended" is pretty childish.
We all have a brain and an ability to control what we're going to be offended by or not. Censorship is not the answer. If you don't like dark images or offensive images, well, create an image that YOU like. Why censor the dark image if you don't agree with it?
And no, i am not angry at Christians. I just don't agree with what they believe in, that's all. The funny thing is, whenever I say I don't agree with Christians, they are OFFENDED (well, as evident in this thread, that's for sure) and wanted to know why I have offended them :)
Oh yeah, speaking of subjective voting. From now on, I am going to do the same subjective voting that everyone else has. I have been very nice to grading images based on the artist merits whether i agree with it or not, but now i am finding that i am going to have to go with the flow and just grade it subjectively. So I am going to do the following:
if I like your photo, you get a 10
ELSE
you get a 1.
In general i think this is a better voting system instead of trying to do 1-10 grading scale. The person who gets the most "yes, i like your image" wins :-) Grading from 1-10 implies that everyone knows how to critique photographs objectively. I am sorry, but unless you have a ton of experience you are not really qualified to do so. I have played violin since I was 6, and if I were to be critiqued by someone let's say who has only been playing for 2 years and is not a musical genius, it would be pretty annoying :) because after 2 decades in music, i know what to look for. It's like asking me to critique country music, which i HATE with a passion :), i can only say I don't like it but i can't really say if it's good or not.
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10/08/2002 02:49:09 PM · #85 |
Some of you need to ask yourselves a few of questions,
1. How does this affect MY life?
2. Why am I letting it affect my life to such a degree?
3. Is this worth the bleeding ulcer, heart attack or stroke I am going to cause myself to suffer? especially since I don't even know for SURE that is an offensive picture or not.
I stated before that I am not psychic and so do not know for sure what the photographer was saying, but apparantly others her are psychic, good for you, use your gift for good, not for evil please.
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10/08/2002 03:15:35 PM · #86 |
Your forgiven. We still love you. :)
Is the violin in your pictures the same violin you had since you started playing? My boy who is 11 has been playing the violin for 1 year. He loves it. Of course I always wanted to play it, but my parents couldn't afford one. :( My boy will play for me.
Originally posted by paganini:
[i]Let me first say that I apologize if I offended you in any way with my previous posts. It wasn't my position, but I was somewhat ANNOYED when people start to call for censorship of an image simply for the disagreement of the message. I think it's pretty clear that most people vote SUBJECTIVELY on this site (i.e. if they like it to their personal taste, they vote 8-10...). I am already annoyed when people vote an image because it doesn't agree with their taste down to a 1 or 2, but to have it disqualified because several people gets "offended" is pretty childish.
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10/08/2002 03:26:06 PM · #87 |
[quote]Some of you need to ask yourselves a few of questions,
1. How does this affect MY life?
2. Why am I letting it affect my life to such a degree?
3. Is this worth the bleeding ulcer, heart attack or stroke I am going to cause myself to suffer? especially since I don't even know for SURE that is an offensive picture or not.
I stated before that I am not psychic and so do not know for sure what the photographer was saying, but apparantly others her are psychic, good for you, use your gift for good, not for evil please.[/quote]
offensive : causing displeasure or resentment
It's as simple as that. It doesn't require any level of psychic powers to determine that some people are looking at the photo and feeling "displeasure or resentment".
And honestly - how is a web discussion showing that people are getting hot & bothered, and putting their health at risk? I love to get on-line and rant & rave with a community over an interesting topic, but it's all for fun. My heart rate doesn't sore. I don't kick the cat. And I don't see anyone here going about this any other way.
:)
debate : a regulated discussion of a proposition between two matched sides. I would add to this that the purpose of a debate is for these two matched sides to educate themselves, their opponents, and those who witness the debate. |
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10/08/2002 03:43:47 PM · #88 |
Originally posted by Gekker:
... use your gift for good, not for evil please.
I suppose you mean your idea of good and evil!?! Well stop trying to shove Your idea of good and evil down My throat!!!
hehehe, yes I'm kidding :) I'm going to go have a nice quiet heart attack now :)
* This message has been edited by the author on 10/8/2002 3:42:28 PM.
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10/08/2002 03:51:13 PM · #89 |
| Funniest thread I've read in ages! If there is an old man sitting on a cloud I bet he's in hysterics listening to this lot. |
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10/08/2002 03:54:50 PM · #90 |
I think the person that interpreted that image negatively needs to either wake up... or pat him/herself on the back for being a sh*t disturber.
There is in no way an obvious reason to say that the particular image was bashing a particular religion. If there was decomposing nasty sloppy rotting fruit in the place of the cans then the message would be different. |
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10/08/2002 03:59:12 PM · #91 |
Originally posted by BigSmiles:
I think the person that interpreted that image negatively needs to either wake up... or pat him/herself on the back for being a sh*t disturber.
There is in no way an obvious reason to say that the particular image was bashing a particular religion. If there was decomposing nasty sloppy rotting fruit in the place of the cans then the message would be different.
The most amusing possibility is what Gekker suggested might be the 'deep meaning' of this shot... That it was meant for the reflection challenge and was posted too late :) I think there was 1 shot submitted almost immediately after the challenge was posted :) |
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10/08/2002 04:01:39 PM · #92 |
Originally posted by paganini:
In general i think this is a better voting system instead of trying to do 1-10 grading scale. The person who gets the most "yes, i like your image" wins :-) Grading from 1-10 implies that everyone knows how to critique photographs objectively. I am sorry, but unless you have a ton of experience you are not really qualified to do so. I have played violin since I was 6, and if I were to be critiqued by someone let's say who has only been playing for 2 years and is not a musical genius, it would be pretty annoying :) because after 2 decades in music, i know what to look for. It's like asking me to critique country music, which i HATE with a passion :), i can only say I don't like it but i can't really say if it's good or not.
Now you've gone too far. Religion is one thing but disparaging Country Music, that's heresy!
* This message has been edited by the author on 10/8/2002 4:03:03 PM.
* This message has been edited by the author on 10/8/2002 4:14:38 PM. |
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10/08/2002 04:05:22 PM · #93 |
Originally posted by Sonifo:
I think everyone needs a hug! :)
Well... I've been reading but not participating in this thread... but if it's huggy time, I'm there! ;)
It has been an interesting thread. Discussions like this are great as long as people don't take comments as personal attacks. That happens too often in threads discussing religion. This one has been more enjoyable because it has not degenerated into name calling and so on.
Mark
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10/08/2002 04:13:10 PM · #94 |
Here's my take on this subject. In regards to censorship. This is definitely not a photo I would censor. while I don't agree with the photo at all that doesn't mean it should be censored. The meaning of the photo can seem extreme to many but the visual impact is not. I believe that the meaning of the photo is that the words of the bible are garbage and I do not believe that. However, that is just my opinion and others will have there own opinions about it. I believe that if my views are so right then maybe others will see that too and change their views to match mine. I do not think it is my place to push my beliefs on anyone but to be ready to share what I believe if I am asked about it. I think these kinds of debates are great because they help me to have an open mind. Just because I believe a certain way should not mean that I can't ever change my beliefs based on new found information. Forgive me if this is too longwinded. One last thing. I'm not sure sure that this photo is the most appropriate for this site because it seems to be the type of photo that needs to be accompanied by some sort of text or explanation. Clearly the photographer had a specific meaning for the photo and I think it a little bit thoughtless to display the photo in this way when it is obviously going to be interpreted in a very specific way by many viewers, especially if that was not the photographer's intent. This is very thought provoking which isn't bad but I just feel that an artist should take a certain amount of resposibility when it comes to how his/her work is viewed.
T
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10/08/2002 04:38:45 PM · #95 |
I wonder where this idea originated? In my art history classes, it seemed the reason art originated was to create/display cultural icons. The original purpose that I saw, was to celebrate things of importance in life, not to cause controversy.
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by zadore:
[i]
What is the purpose of art if not to stir a reaction, and make the viewer react, think, or feel something? In that respect, I think this entry was tremendously successful, regardless of how it scores.
* This message has been edited by the author on 10/8/2002 4:43:20 PM.
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10/08/2002 04:45:41 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by Zeissman:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
[i]Originally posted by zadore:
[i]
What is the purpose of art if not to stir a reaction, and make the viewer react, think, or feel something? In that respect, I think this entry was tremendously successful, regardless of how it scores.
I wonder where this idea originated? In my art history classes, it seemed the reason art originated was to create/display cultural icons. The original purpose that I saw, was to celebrate things of importance in life, not to cause controversy.
[/i]
Zadore did not mention controversy... he said 'stir a reaction'... that's not necessarily a controversial reaction :)
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10/08/2002 04:45:41 PM · #97 |
Originally posted by Zeissman:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
[i]Originally posted by zadore:
[i]
What is the purpose of art if not to stir a reaction, and make the viewer react, think, or feel something? In that respect, I think this entry was tremendously successful, regardless of how it scores.
I wonder where this idea originated? In my art history classes, it seemed the reason art originated was to create/display cultural icons. The original purpose that I saw, was to celebrate things of importance in life, not to cause controversy.
[/i]
Zadore did not mention controversy... he said 'stir a reaction'... that's not necessarily a controversial reaction :)
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10/08/2002 04:49:59 PM · #98 |
[OT] this is somewhat out of topic, but since you asked....
Uhhh, no :) my first violin was a 1/4 sized violin and it's pretty small. I went from 1/4 to 1/2 to 3/4 to full size and after that went through 2-3 violins. The one I have right now is the one i have since college. I had own a French violin made in the 1800's but it wasn't giving enough sound by the time i was in college so i got another one and gave this one to one of my cousins. Unfortunately that wasn't the photo i took, the one i took was the one i had since college which was made in the 1980's by a Russian violin maker living in NYC. I don't know who in my family tree still has the 1/4 size violin or whether it was resold... violins are pretty cool in that the values don't drop. In fact, the older the violin, the more expensive it is (usually) due to the collectible value + the sound usually gets better as it ages.
yeah, learning violin was very costly. it actually got cheaper in college becuase you could enroll in a class, but while i was growing up the typical rates varies from 10 to 50 bucks per hour of instruction, i can only imagine the rates today. I was paying around $40 per hour per week by the time I went to college. In college it was a good change of scenery every time i went into the music building from engineering. We had like 10% women ratio in the Electrical Engineering department, and something like 70-80% female to male ratio in the University orchestra, so if your boy ever complained about not practicing, just tell him that it will, um, increase his "social" chances with women in college. :^)
Originally posted by Sonifo:
Your forgiven. We still love you. :)
Is the violin in your pictures the same violin you had since you started playing? My boy who is 11 has been playing the violin for 1 year. He loves it. Of course I always wanted to play it, but my parents couldn't afford one. :( My boy will play for me.
Originally posted by paganini:
[i]Let me first say that I apologize if I offended you in any way with my previous posts. It wasn't my position, but I was somewhat ANNOYED when people start to call for censorship of an image simply for the disagreement of the message. I think it's pretty clear that most people vote SUBJECTIVELY on this site (i.e. if they like it to their personal taste, they vote 8-10...). I am already annoyed when people vote an image because it doesn't agree with their taste down to a 1 or 2, but to have it disqualified because several people gets "offended" is pretty childish.
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10/08/2002 04:56:40 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by JohnSetzler :
Zadore did not mention controversy... he said 'stir a reaction'... that's not necessarily a controversial reaction :)
Actually it was me that said it, in reply to zadore. And you're right, I chose my words very carefully there.
-Terry
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10/08/2002 05:03:07 PM · #100 |
Originally posted by myqyl:
Originally posted by Gekker:
[i]... use your gift for good, not for evil please.
I suppose you mean your idea of good and evil!?! Well stop trying to shove Your idea of good and evil down My throat!!!
hehehe, yes I'm kidding :) I'm going to go have a nice quiet heart attack now :)[/i]
Now see here is somebody with a sense of humor, something too many people are seriously lacking.
It's called sarcasm, trying to lighten the mood here, I'm one of those people that laugh at a funeral home. I can't help it, I have to see the brighter side, that way, maybe I can stay away from prozac. Wait I can hear it now, NO I am not implying any of you are on prozac or need to be or that it is a bad thing.
I just think that maybe, just maybe, we should wait for the whole story, I just keep thinking Salem Witch Trials. (oh, don't read anything into that either, I am not a witch in ANY sense of the word)
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