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08/05/2003 05:11:03 PM · #1 |
If a person comments on a photo, saying its a great shot, it doesn't have to be helpful, the person most of the time (emphasis) likes it and marks it off as being helpful. and lots of commentors are "afraid" of bluntly critisizing a photo because the person who took the shot will most likely not like what he or she said, and the commentor would not succeed in making a helpful comment. I've given up on trying to sugar coat my comments. I used to care more about whether someone marks it helpful or not. Now I do not care if people mark my comments as helpful or not, i will tell you what i think, without bothering to explain it so that its appealing to you.
It almost sickens me to see that people submit a photo JUST because theres a challenge that fits it. I wish there was a website that you had to qualify to get into, not just to have to pay. A site like that would reassure a site for only those who are the "educated in good taste" type.
So many people have the wrong idea about photography. There are those who think they can become amazing photographers after reading up about it or taking a course. Also, people are too involved in techinical elements. Photography IS id say 80 percent the actual "shot" itself. Another thing that bothers me is lots of the time I see that if someone sees a photo as being amusing, or "cool" they add it to their favorites list.
So Long!
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08/05/2003 05:19:46 PM · #2 |
| Or maybe im just an idiot with bad taste. Oh well. |
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08/05/2003 05:27:29 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by DavidLevin:
If a person comments on a photo, saying its a great shot, it doesn't have to be helpful, the person most of the time (emphasis) likes it and marks it off as being helpful. and lots of commentors are "afraid" of bluntly critisizing a photo because the person who took the shot will most likely not like what he or she said, and the commentor would not succeed in making a helpful comment. I've given up on trying to sugar coat my comments. I used to care more about whether someone marks it helpful or not. Now I do not care if people mark my comments as helpful or not, i will tell you what i think, without bothering to explain it so that its appealing to you.
It almost sickens me to see that people submit a photo JUST because theres a challenge that fits it. I wish there was a website that you had to qualify to get into, not just to have to pay. A site like that would reassure a site for only those who are the "educated in good taste" type.
So many people have the wrong idea about photography. There are those who think they can become amazing photographers after reading up about it or taking a course. Also, people are too involved in techinical elements. Photography IS id say 80 percent the actual "shot" itself. Another thing that bothers me is lots of the time I see that if someone sees a photo as being amusing, or "cool" they add it to their favorites list.
So Long! |
Keep in mind David, that many people are here to learn. You may not like how they shoot yet, but if they're improving, then site has served it's purpose.
i don't understand your problem with how people choose their favourites; aren't you now questioning their personal taste? If I find a photo amusing enough to make my favourites list, I'm putting it on there. It's not up to you to decide whay MY favourite is.
sometimes taking a step back and looking at the big picture helps.
Pedro |
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08/05/2003 05:33:07 PM · #4 |
| but you have to have a basis for it, there are shots that are debatable as to whether or not they are good, and that of course is fine. I speak of the shots that are obviously awful or just technically neat. shots like these im sure any pro would agree just arent what photography is about. I expect to recieve much critisism to this, but please, consider taking the time to actually think about this for a while and maybe then you'll see why i think what i do. imo |
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08/05/2003 05:38:26 PM · #5 |
If a photo tickled your funny bone, why not save it to your list of favorites so that you can go back and laugh some more. Don't see it as a bad thing. :o) Some photos awe you by their precision, others by just the visual impact('cool'), others touch your emotions.
We are all here to learn and share, and if you succeed in reaching someone in one of those ways, that's pretty nice. If you can do all three, well, that's just pretty damn nice (and amazing). Hehe.
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08/05/2003 05:41:38 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by DavidLevin:
but you have to have a basis for it, there are shots that are debatable as to whether or not they are good, and that of course is fine. I speak of the shots that are obviously awful or just technically neat. shots like these im sure any pro would agree just arent what photography is about. I expect to recieve much critisism to this, but please, consider taking the time to actually think about this for a while and maybe then you'll see why i think what i do. imo |
We're not talking about which would or should win the contest. We're talking about a favourites list. What people like best. OPINIONS. Picasso was technically a terrible artist - hell I can't even tell what half of it is supposed to be, but for more than a few people, he's a favourite.
If the basis of it being a favourite is simply that I like looking at it - perfect. that's enough to qualify. You're right it shouldn't win any contests, but we're talking about a favourites list, not a "this should win a contest" list.
P |
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08/05/2003 05:42:44 PM · #7 |
David, go buy a camera, take some shots, submit them to some challenges and then you have my ears and my respect..
It 'almost sickens me' to have read this rubbish, but then you're right you probably are just an idiot with bad taste.. Hope that wasn't too sugar coated for you..
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08/05/2003 05:55:20 PM · #8 |
David,
First let me say that you're a very articulate, well spoken young man and I was surprised to find you're only 13 years olds. What I'm about to say is not a 'knock' or any kind of put down... Just an observation...
In your Chess Monthly shot (which I enjoyed) you marked "Great shot! 9." as 'helpful', but didn't mark "too dark..." as 'helpful'. This seems to go against what your original post was all about... Maybe you should examine your own practice of marking comments helpful to better understand why others choose one comment over another...
Just a thought and I hope you take no offense, because none has been meant...
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08/05/2003 06:13:55 PM · #9 |
I wish there was a website that you had to qualify to get into, not just to have to pay. A site like that would reassure a site for only those who are the "educated in good taste" type.
And I wish there was a site where you had to qualify to be non-judgemental and open-minded before you post in the forums. A site like that would reassure a site for only those who are the "educated in acceptance and tolerance for everyone" type.
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08/05/2003 06:15:08 PM · #10 |
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08/05/2003 06:25:45 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Konador:
What is good taste? |
Steak. Steak tastes good. |
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08/05/2003 06:26:22 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Konador:
What is good taste? |
Generally speaking "Agrees with me" can be substituted for "Good taste" in most instances...
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08/05/2003 07:13:57 PM · #13 |
Steak. Steak tastes good
..and chocolate... lots of chocolate |
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08/05/2003 07:35:33 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Alpine99:
David, go buy a camera, take some shots, submit them to some challenges and then you have my ears and my respect..
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You should take a look at his profile. He lacks a camera at the moment, but he has taken shots and submitted to past challenges.
However, I think that profile might hurt your argument more than it helps it David. I would hesitate a bit before making the accusations and complaints that you do, as many of them seem like they should be applied inwardly first.
You complain about people only marking compliments as helpful, but you seem to often not mark unflattering comments as helpful. You complain about people submitting just because they have a photo that meets the challenge, but you seem to have submitted photos that didn't even fit the challenge they were submitted to. You complain about people choosing photos they find cool or amusing for their favorites, but surely some of your favorites are technical shots that don't have much behind them but visual appeal (consider the chess shots).
I can understand your sentiments and agree with them to some extent. The main overlying issue you seem to have is that you feel like undeserving photos are given the most attention and praise, while more worthy photos are passed over or ignored. This is a feeling that is of course magnified when you feel like your own work is not as admired as others' work that seems less valuable (and I say so as much reflecting on myself as on you). That's a natural frustration I'm sure everyone experiences.
I'd say there are two answers to that issue:
1)People's tastes vary widely, and what one person finds value in another might see as pointless. Insisting that you hold the true and accurate ability to evaluate art and that other's opinions are "not in good taste" or are somehow inferior merely leads to arrogance and close-mindedness. It's better to discuss what you see as valuable without suggesting others' standards are invalid, and allow others to reach their own conclusions.
2)Life is like that. A high budget action flick with awesome special effects and big name stars will be a lot more popular than an independant film loaded with creativity, authentic emotion, and intelligent and unique ideas. That doesn't mean that the action flick is a better movie (nor does it necessarily mean that it's worse). It just means that some things are more appealing to the masses than others. The same is true for photos. Don't let it get you down, just try to learn to understand it and accept it. And sometimes, a unique, intelligent, and creative movie like American Beauty (or others if you disagree) achieves both artistic excellence and popular success.
Well, I hope my long-winded reply is helpful in some way. Stick in there David.
Message edited by author 2003-08-05 19:37:53.
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08/05/2003 10:51:46 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Alpine99:
David, go buy a camera, take some shots, submit them to some challenges and then you have my ears and my respect..
It 'almost sickens me' to have read this rubbish, but then you're right you probably are just an idiot with bad taste.. Hope that wasn't too sugar coated for you.. |
I have a camera, just it's not digital, so I cant list it. It is much harder to be a film photographer than digital, know who youre talking to before saying anything. Maybe if you would actually take the time to look over my profile you would have realized that by yourself. I have submitted to challenges, and its kind of funny you know? for the few opportunities that i've had to shoot digital, I've managed to get more favorites than you, something to think about maybe?
Also notice how I don't need to use offensive language to get my point across, I guess this goes to show your level of maturity!
As for everyone else, I want to say that when I had written that it's easy for people to get their comments marked off as helpful, I wasn't implying that I don't fall for this. As wrong as it may be, when someone praises me for my work, it overcomes my feeling as to whether or not the comment was helpful or not. Of course its something for me to work on but all I had been saying is that I don't care for making helpful comments, im just going to be outright obvious.
And I stand by my argument. I do believe that as much as opinion is debatable, there NEEDS to be some sort of basis for it. No one can say that a poorly executed shot of a say, a foot, is not a matter of opinion, every person in his right mind would agree it's an awful shot.
I don't make these points as a way of taking out "aggravation" for my work not being appreciated. To the contrary, im taking my aggravation for other peoples shots not getting the deserved respect they so obviously deserve. As much opinion as there may be, you will notice that ALL proffesional photographers from Ansel Adams to Sam Abell, have a common denominator, ALL of their shots are emotionally captivating in one way or level or another. None are simply technologically cool. But please prove me wrong.
Message edited by author 2003-08-05 23:21:07. |
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08/05/2003 11:18:16 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by fayepek:
I wish there was a website that you had to qualify to get into, not just to have to pay. A site like that would reassure a site for only those who are the "educated in good taste" type.
And I wish there was a site where you had to qualify to be non-judgemental and open-minded before you post in the forums. A site like that would reassure a site for only those who are the "educated in acceptance and tolerance for everyone" type. |
I do have tolerance and accept most people, and if anything, more than you do, my profile shows it. I've select 84 favorite shots and 16 photographers, while you, have not selected any for either category. Does this not show a lack of acceptance and open minded-ness? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you haven't had the time to select anything. But please, don't assume things which you don't know enough about.
Message edited by author 2003-08-05 23:27:13. |
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08/05/2003 11:23:23 PM · #17 |
Are you sure you're 13 ?? You sure speak as if you were twice that age :-)) I couln't even put all this into words as well as you did.
Just a tiny little advice - realax and enjoy yourself. Life is too short.
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08/05/2003 11:25:21 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by timmi:
Are you sure you're 13 ?? You sure speak as if you were twice that age :-)) I couln't even put all this into words as well as you did.
Just a tiny little advice - realax and enjoy yourself. Life is too short. |
Im turning 14 in three days! thanks. |
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08/05/2003 11:26:55 PM · #19 |
Then, Happy Birthday to you, David !!!!!!
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08/05/2003 11:27:58 PM · #20 |
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08/05/2003 11:32:21 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by DavidLevin:
...I've given up on trying to sugar coat my comments. I used to care more about whether someone marks it helpful or not. |
I agree, I've never sugar coated my comments... If you do sugar coat you aren't helping the photographer. I don't really care about my "helpful to unhelpfull" ratio at all. If I see something I don't like I (usually) mention the reasons why I don't like it and what they could do to improve it, and on the other side, if I like the pic I also mention that and why I like it. My comments are usually 50-50, positive and negative.
What is annoying is photographers that "rate" your comment purely based on whether it's negative or positive! Have you ever noticed it... every single comment that is positive is checked as helpfull, and every single coment that is negative (even with a long explanation) is marked as unhelpfull! I think to myself, gee, this person will never learn a thing because they disregard ANYTHING that is negative.
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08/06/2003 12:51:24 AM · #22 |
Glad you guys don't sugar coat your comments. But there are 2 things to keep in mind at the same time - #1 - Be tactful, you are speaking to people here. #2 - Don't be afraid to point out the good things about a photo that you vote a 3 because you think that's sugar coating.
Be considerate in your commenting. It doesn't mean don't tell the photog's what you think, just don't be too much of a weenie.
I'll appreciate your comments nonetheless. - Bob
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08/06/2003 07:09:52 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by pedromarlinez:
Picasso was technically a terrible artist - hell I can't even tell what half of it is supposed to be, but for more than a few people, he's a favourite.
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If you look at his very early work, and indeed the line drawings, I think you might have to revise this opinion :-) The cubism, and the more structured 'mature' work, was a result of his dissatisfaction with the limits of orthodox approaches. Some of the abstract enthusiasts here might like to take god note of that, incidentally.
Ed
Message edited by author 2003-08-06 07:11:10.
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08/06/2003 07:28:32 AM · #24 |
I'm in David's favorites, I'm on David's favorites...
haha! Seriously folks, the kids just turning 14 and he's acting perfectly, if not incredibly amazingly, for his age. I think he will take over the world one day and be an excellent and famous photographer.
David: Happy birthay. Today's my 23rd. Enjoy your youth. Oh, by the way, I'm going to take a poorly executed photo of my foot and get at least 5 people to add it to their favorites, just to prove a useless point. It's all subjective. Have fun and leave whatever comments you want. |
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08/06/2003 07:32:32 AM · #25 |
Nicely pointed out, e301... I think it's really important to master cliches and pastiche before striking out on your own path and breaking some of the rules. I learnt in music a long time ago that it's vital to master your craft before you truly develop your own voice by the practice of what has come before.
There are many people here who boast about how creative and non-technical they are, and the same people sometimes get bitter that they aren't being recognised. I'd say that creativeness does not go hand in hand with non-technicality. It's like being creative with a new language of which you have only learnt 100 words. Sometimes a person with great heart can say some great things with few words, but it will be a choice from a greater vocabulary. I'm here to develop my technique so at some point in the future I can develop a personal style, but that's a long way from here.
Rant over! |
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