Toyota Prius Owners... - DPChallenge Forums

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/12/2007 08:17:30 PM · #51

Our ford dealer sells 80% Gasoline Escape's and 20% Hybrid's, the hybrid's are popular but it depends on the need. One of the salesmen told me when we bought one for my step mother that 99% (of the gasoline models) they sell are Front Wheel Drive only. No one wants them in AWD. Im not sure about the hyrbids though.

The Escapes rarley show up in the shop for much more then an oil change.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

07/12/2007 09:04:17 PM · #52

Originally posted by CEJ:

My real question was on the mpg calculations which consisted of 99% of my post. The how are they in snow was one line and not the gist of my post.

GE: No - I guess you didn't read my post. The computer reports to me the GAS engine is getting average 35 mpg (including when assisted by electric) it averages the mpg only when the gas engine is running. So the GAS engine gets 35 mpg. However, the trip odometer reports miles traveled above that. So my question is does that mean the extra miles are ELECTRIC only driving or am I missing something?

I drive to and from work everyday with the gas engine coming on only when I first start the car and it runs for two or three minutes. By the time I back out it is only electric. Around town the car is in electric mode most of the time.

Yes, I did read it. When you combine the 35mpg you get when running the gas engine with the "infinite" mpg you get on the electric, you average 45mpg -- that's what you get in real-world terms; if you have 10 gallons of gas you can go 450 miles. If you could run all-electric you'd get "infinite" mpg until the battery dies.

My car has a real-time bar graph which shows "current" milage, and it fluctuates between 10 and 100, depending on slope and acceleration.

Tamron AF 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6 LD for Canon

07/12/2007 09:36:10 PM · #53

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by CEJ:
My real question was on the mpg calculations which consisted of 99% of my post. The how are they in snow was one line and not the gist of my post.

GE: No - I guess you didn't read my post. The computer reports to me the GAS engine is getting average 35 mpg (including when assisted by electric) it averages the mpg only when the gas engine is running. So the GAS engine gets 35 mpg. However, the trip odometer reports miles traveled above that. So my question is does that mean the extra miles are ELECTRIC only driving or am I missing something?

I drive to and from work everyday with the gas engine coming on only when I first start the car and it runs for two or three minutes. By the time I back out it is only electric. Around town the car is in electric mode most of the time.

Yes, I did read it. When you combine the 35mpg you get when running the gas engine with the "infinite" mpg you get on the electric, you average 45mpg -- that's what you get in real-world terms; if you have 10 gallons of gas you can go 450 miles. If you could run all-electric you'd get "infinite" mpg until the battery dies.

My car has a real-time bar graph which shows "current" milage, and it fluctuates between 10 and 100, depending on slope and acceleration.

My gauge only goes up to 50mpg on the live view... I wonder if it doesn't average anything higher than 50mpg? I assume I'm getting well over that while i'm tai...drafting a semi. lol.

scott180

Canon EOS-30D

07/12/2007 10:06:50 PM · #54

I just got a 2007 Prius in March and have been getting between 42 and 51 mpg. Mostly in the mid 40's. I live in wisconsin and definately got better mpg as it warmed up.

Last weekend we drove from Green Bay to Champaign Il on 3/4 of a tank, with my wife and three kids in the car. Our mini van AC doesn't work, so we wedged everyone in there. It was great and the kids really didn't complain.

I'm too impatient to really accelerate like I should. I feel weird when loaded dump trucks beat me out of the gate.

I love the car. Now my wife wants one too.

Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

07/12/2007 10:12:11 PM · #55

Originally posted by scott180:

I just got a 2007 Prius in March and have been getting between 42 and 51 mpg. Mostly in the mid 40's. I live in Wisconsin and definately got better mpg as it warmed up.

Gas expands when it warms up and they've even found this to be a problem with pumps in some states ur nto always getting what u pay for not a problem where you are.

I do wonder if it affect the onboard guages, however figuring out the old fashioned way is better.

CEJ

Canon EOS-40D

07/12/2007 10:27:15 PM · #56

Originally posted by GeneralE:

...if you have 10 gallons of gas you can go 450 miles. If you could run all-electric you'd get "infinite" mpg until the battery dies.

Not true. Again, you didn't read. The GAS engine gets 35 mpg. If my battery dies for some reason, I can't even get the 35 mpg since that average includes when the GAS engine is assisted by the ELECTRIC motor. Simple math says I get 45 mpg. But that is not reality. Again, the reason for my question: If my GAS engine gets 35 mpg. and on 10 gallons of GAS my odometer says I drove 450 miles on that 10 gallons, am I correct/safe in assuming that in the time I expended that 10 gallons of gas I also drove 100 miles on pure electric? Since the 35 mpg. is an average of pure gas AND electric assist since it only computes this average while the gas engine is running, shouldn't the extra 100 miles be a fair indication of the PURE ELECTRIC miles the car was driven for?

alanfreed

Nikon Z9

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

07/12/2007 10:51:33 PM · #57

Originally posted by CEJ:

Not true. Again, you didn't read.

Aye carumba. Why do so many of my completely benign threads eventually turn into rants...? I think the answer is: nobody knows your answer. Stop being offended.

07/12/2007 10:54:29 PM · #58

depends where the electric came from if you want to get that specific. If you're getting 450 miles with 10 gallons, it's good enough to say you're getting 45mpg from the car's drive system. I'm not sure why you care so much about your mpg on the electric motor because since a battery doesn't use gas... you don't have gallons of electric so the term itself doesn't apply. 45mpg is what you're getting, and that's pretty darn good if you ask me.

Message edited by author 2007-07-12 22:55:02.

07/12/2007 10:56:29 PM · #59

Originally posted by kyebosh:

The term applies to the fact that your still All in all traveling this amount of distance gas or not in the end using this much amount of gas. I guess you never thought about the fact that you get 0 mpg when you idle lol.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/12/2007 11:17:11 PM · #60

that's exactly what i was trying to point out, lol.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

07/12/2007 11:23:55 PM · #61

Originally posted by kyebosh:

I'm not sure why you care so much about your mpg on the electric motor because since a battery doesn't use gas...

A non-plugin hybrid like the Prius requires the gas engine to run part of the time in order to keep the main battery charged up. You can recover part of the electric charge through coasting/regenerative braking, but not a much as you expend getting to the top of the hill.

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

Canon EF-M 22mm f/2.0 STM Lens

07/13/2007 08:12:59 AM · #62

Originally posted by alanfreed:

Originally posted by CEJ:
Not true. Again, you didn't read.

Aye carumba. Why do so many of my completely benign threads eventually turn into rants...? I think the answer is: nobody knows your answer. Stop being offended.

Because you're an instigator.

You rascal.

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

Canon EF-M 22mm f/2.0 STM Lens

07/13/2007 08:26:42 AM · #63

How to calculate mpg.

When you fill the tank reset the odometer.

Drive.

Next time you fill the tank, write down the mileage on the odo (miles) and how many gallons of gas (gal) it takes to fill the tank.

If you can't do division in your head, you may need a calculator for this next step. Divide the number of miles by the number of gallons.

There you have it: Miles per gallon

Repeat as many times as you wish.

The more times you do this, the more indicative the result will be of your average drive. You can look at how your mileage fluctuates and if you average the averages you can get an overall average.

I suppose I could write a tutorial on how to do this, but it's really pretty simple.

CEJ

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

07/13/2007 08:35:41 AM · #64

I give up...

07/13/2007 08:36:09 AM · #65

Originally posted by CEJ:

I give up...

Cool!

Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

07/13/2007 11:16:34 AM · #66

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by kyebosh:
I'm not sure why you care so much about your mpg on the electric motor because since a battery doesn't use gas...

A non-plugin hybrid like the Prius requires the gas engine to run part of the time in order to keep the main battery charged up. You can recover part of the electric charge through coasting/regenerative braking, but not a much as you expend getting to the top of the hill.

I'm trying to better understand what CEJ is asking...

Alright how bout this, let's assume that the battery is 100% full when you refil your tank. I don't know if this is possible, but let's assume anyway. So you fill your tank with 10 gallons and 450 miles. That's 450 miles but now we're out of gas. How far can you get on battery before it dies. Is that the question? Or are you assuming that you're going to not deplete the battery before refueling (as i would guess would be most common).

Those are the only two scenarios extreme scenarios where you could get a different MPG.

I'm still not sure why it matters because the effective MPG is still 45mpg unless of course you keep going with no gas, which you may or may not have done?

CEJ

Canon EOS-40D

07/13/2007 12:03:06 PM · #67

I thought my question was fairly simple yet it seems to be grossly mis-understood. I don't care what the simple math tells me my 'total' miles per gallon is. My question was: if the gas engine is getting 35 mpg as reported by the computer, but on 10 gallons of gas I get 450 miles, is it safe/reasonable to assume that I drove approx. 100 miles on electric alone? My question has nothing to do with battery depletion, overall miles per gallon, etc. but with how the car is reporting conditions to me and what assumptions I can make from that. I know I cannot improve the gas mileage per se, but I can, with a little more effort/diligence keep the car in all electric mode much longer than I currently do. So all I wanted to know was if that assumption was correct or am I missing something.

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

Canon EF-M 22mm f/2.0 STM Lens

07/13/2007 12:04:05 PM · #68

I think that to get at what CEJ is asking would require a knowledge of the energy conversion systems in the hybrid vehicle in question and their efficiencies. Some of the questions that would need to be answered:

When the engine is running, how much of the energy is devoted to actually moving the car down the road and how much is being used to charge the generator?

What is the efficiency of the generator in turning that mechanical energy from the motor into electrical energy?

What is the efficiency of the conversion of that electrical energy back into mechanical energy?

The regenerative braking system converts kinetic energy into electric energy, how much energy is recovered by that system?

etc.

The systems involved with moving the car are so integrated that, unless you're prepared to dissect your hybrid and test them individually, it's probably pretty difficult to discriminate between the energy produced by the engine that makes the car move and that produced by the electrical system.

Ultimately though, unless you have a plug-in hybrid, ALL of the energy comes from burning fuel in the engine.