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09/21/2007 02:44:29 PM · #126 |
Originally posted by raish:
So of course, as I'm taking a picture with a still camera, I can't really show the entire act of opening. ... |
I liked this one. :D I know it was for "Closing", but still same concept.
 (by  hajeka) |
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09/21/2007 02:45:59 PM · #127 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by raish:
So of course, as I'm taking a picture with a still camera, I can't really show the entire act of opening. ... |
I liked this one. :D I know it was for "Closing", but still same concept.
(by hajeka) |
DNMC! That is opening not closing...
:-P |
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09/21/2007 02:52:14 PM · #128 |
[quote]
(by hajeka)DNMC! That is opening not closing...
:-P [/quote]
HAHAHA!! Well Said!
Message edited by author 2007-09-21 14:53:43. |
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09/21/2007 03:02:30 PM · #129 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by raish:
So of course, as I'm taking a picture with a still camera, I can't really show the entire act of opening. ... |
I liked this one. :D I know it was for "Closing", but still same concept.
(by hajeka) |
DNMC! That is opening not closing...
:-P |
Dangit! I always get that motion blur backwards. :/
:D |
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09/21/2007 03:06:57 PM · #130 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by raish:
So of course, as I'm taking a picture with a still camera, I can't really show the entire act of opening. The camera will capture an instant during the process of opening. The opening object will then be either wholly or partly open. In fact, I suspect that it will be acceptable for most people to actually set up a picture in such a way that the opening process is literally and physically stopped in order for a picture to be taken that represents or depicts the act of opening. That which is then made permanent by photographic recording, will be an opening. The intention to show an act of opening is implied by the contestant entering the picture in a challenge in which an act of opening is stipulated. It cannot be said that an entry does not meet the challenge unless the accuser is able to demonstrate the absence of this intention.
If this seems boring, I refer my learned colleagues to the rest of the thread... |
Well, this is sensible. But the "challenge", as it were, for those who took it literally, was to create an image which someone would look at and say "Hey! That's OPENING before my eyes!" The blue ribbon did exactly that, and it wasn't easy to do. It was a challenge for sure.
There were many lovely shots in "closing" of sunsets (close of day, see?) and while they literally meet the challenge, I don't think they were much of a challenge to make.
I think this is what people are beefing about: that a number of photographers go to great lengths to "solve" the challenge, and their efforts go unrewarded as rather generic images that happen to marginally "fit" the challenge win ribbons because they are beautiful.
R. |
This is true.
p
Message edited by author 2007-09-21 15:07:35. |
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09/21/2007 05:43:48 PM · #131 |
Originally posted by eyewave:
Originally posted by yanko:
Has anybody bothered to point out that the average vote cast in Opening and Closing was very low? There wasn't a high score in either challenge. That tells me many of the entries were deemed DNMC to varying degrees but you know what? Someone still has to win and that's what happened.
ETA: Correction, Opening did have some high scores but the average vote cast overall was low. |
Don't think, the low scores have something to do with the number of DNMC entries. See, while DPL was running, everybody whined, it would harm the scores, but proof has never been made. Or, look at the "Children's Toy II" scores, the blue had 6.8333, the average was 5.27 - extremely low both, though the description was crystal clear and all top 10 shots were definitely meeting the challenge.
Edited for spelling. |
Well low scores across the board means just one thing and that is the entries weren't good at least according to those who voted. You're right I'm assuming voters voted down because of DNMC but the fact that the voters voted down for some reason should be good enough for those upset about DNMC.
Fact is someone still has to win even when nobody enters a fantastic looking photo that screams the challenge theme. The blue winner in Opening would be the closest to that. It clearly shows something opening right off the bat. It's unambiguous in it's communication, it is different and guess what it won. As for the red and yellow ribbon winners in Opening, they are the results of nobody else coming up with anything better. Surely by now people know you need wow factor to compete for a ribbon. That always a requirement regardless of how well you meet the challenge theme. The results of these two challenges should have been expected after reviewing the photos that was entered. All just my opinion of course. |
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09/21/2007 09:34:27 PM · #132 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by eschelar:
... Pardon me for trying to suggest something for the good of all. ... |
"the good of all" - rather presumptuous speaking for everyone.
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? how is this speaking for everyone?
I am trying to suggest something that might affect all with many varying aspects of benefit. I am not putting words in anyone's mouth. I am responding to a large number of comments, threads and general sentiment within the forums from several points of view.
Additionally, would you please comment in the thread about my idea if you wish to comment further about my idea and how stupid, bad or whatever it is. Before you do so, PLEASE make sure you read the updated definition of what my idea actually is before you pass judgement and call it a closed book. Your stated perception of my idea is rather different from the actual idea, particularly in its current form.
yeesh.
Originally posted by bmartuch:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Holy *#@!
This place is out of control. Waah, waah, waaaaahhhhh!
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Let me save you some trouble...stop reading this thread. If there is a radio station that I don't like, I don't bitch about it. I just don't listen. |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
By your logic, people who don't like the way the DPC masses vote vis a vis the challenge topic just shouldn't vote on the challenges -- Voilá! -- DNMC problem solved ... |
Not exactly. I see the suggestion from bmartuch as a response to 'bitching'.
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Holy *#@!
This place is out of control. Waah, waah, waaaaahhhhh!
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I believe this qualifies.
Discussing, commenting, voting and bitching are all subtly different in the level of expression. Forums are for discussing and commenting. Voting is for voting.
If voting was sufficient as a 'voice' then perhaps people would *only* communicate with each other by holding a certain number of fingers up. Ok, so that still happens to some degree today, but it's not viewed as a really eloquent means of conveying an idea.
Message edited by author 2007-09-21 21:45:10. |
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09/21/2007 09:39:04 PM · #133 |
oops. double post.
Message edited by author 2007-09-21 21:39:21. |
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09/21/2007 11:49:05 PM · #134 |
I'm still on vacation in Utah, so I haven't had access to DPC very often. It's been interesting reading all of the comments regarding my image, though.
For the record, here's how I approach DPC. I photograph whatever I'm interested in. Then I just look through my recent images and submit anything that I can fit into a challenge. I appreciate the creativity that members like Scalvert put into their entries, but that's just not where my interests lie. I think if more people photographed things that interest them rather than trying to meet the letter of every challenge description, they'd be happier.
That's how I roll. ;-)
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09/22/2007 02:18:56 AM · #135 |
Originally posted by bryanbrazil:
I'm still on vacation in Utah, so I haven't had access to DPC very often. It's been interesting reading all of the comments regarding my image, though.
For the record, here's how I approach DPC. I photograph whatever I'm interested in. Then I just look through my recent images and submit anything that I can fit into a challenge.
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I can certainly appreciate that! However, I can also appreciate those that put hard work into the challenges. If only there can be a middle ground where people can exercise creativity and others can fit the challenge. Like maybe vaguer challenge descriptions... |
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09/22/2007 02:54:22 AM · #136 |
| isn't this why we have free studies? |
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09/22/2007 03:19:49 AM · #137 |
Originally posted by hipychik:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Holy *#@!
This place is out of control. Waah, waah, waaaaahhhhh!
DNMC. Who cares? Leave a comment, don't leave a comment. Blah, blah, blah...
Photography, like any type of art, is subjective to personal opinions and taste. Some like it, some won't. Some will say perfect shot for the challenge, some will say DNMC. What's the big friggin deal?!
I say no to adding anything else to the voting setup. It's enough to get people to vote as it is. Don't make it any more complicated.
Now - go take some photos, vote on some images, love it, hate it, leave a comment, or don't. Be the individuals that you are and have some fun - and lighten up!!! Life's too short. Geeesssh. |
YAY! |
well said |
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09/22/2007 04:55:05 AM · #138 |
[/quote]Like maybe vaguer challenge descriptions... [/quote]
Vaguer challenge descriptions!!! Wouldn't that just mean more discussion on each challenge as to what would be suitable and what would be a DNMC?? |
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09/22/2007 05:32:18 AM · #139 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by bmartuch:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Holy *#@!
This place is out of control. Waah, waah, waaaaahhhhh!
|
Let me save you some trouble...stop reading this thread. If there is a radio station that I don't like, I don't bitch about it. I just don't listen. |
Thanks for the advice. However, since I'm a member of the DPC community I like to stay informed of proposed changes (good or bad), and if I don't like the proposal I have just as much right as anyone else to voice my opinion. |
Yes......and we have just as much right to tell you that it's rude and unwanted to come into a thread, however repetitive and unwanted *you* think it is, throw your opinions around, and announce that the thread is unwanted, unmerited, unnecessary, and unresolvable.
So just let the rest of us continue in peace, okay?
There was reasonable and intelligent discussion and decent ideas being exchanged.
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09/22/2007 05:34:32 AM · #140 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I think this is what people are beefing about: that a number of photographers go to great lengths to "solve" the challenge, and their efforts go unrewarded as rather generic images that happen to marginally "fit" the challenge win ribbons because they are beautiful. |
Well said, sir!
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09/22/2007 05:40:38 AM · #141 |
Originally posted by Emma_Rose:
Originally posted by hipychik:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Holy *#@!
This place is out of control. Waah, waah, waaaaahhhhh!
DNMC. Who cares? Leave a comment, don't leave a comment. Blah, blah, blah...
Photography, like any type of art, is subjective to personal opinions and taste. Some like it, some won't. Some will say perfect shot for the challenge, some will say DNMC. What's the big friggin deal?!
I say no to adding anything else to the voting setup. It's enough to get people to vote as it is. Don't make it any more complicated.
Now - go take some photos, vote on some images, love it, hate it, leave a comment, or don't. Be the individuals that you are and have some fun - and lighten up!!! Life's too short. Geeesssh. |
YAY! |
well said |
Can we please stipulate that we know that there are people out there who do *NOT* want to hear it on this subject and that those of us who *ARE* interested in this thread will continue?
As has been pointed out, we *ALL* have a right to our opinion, INCLUDING THOSE OF US WHO DO WANT TO DISCUSS THIS TOPIC, but I don't feel any need to be slapped about for it.
So, those who want to post the whole dead horse thing, we hear ya, now let the ret of us alone, okay?
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09/22/2007 05:55:41 AM · #142 |
Originally posted by L2:
OK, let's say, for the sake of argument, that we do wind up with a DNMC checkbox...but that you still can't be disqualified for not meeting the challenge just like now.
Fast forward 12 challenges later, when a shot ribbons but also has a stat where x% of the voters didn't think it met challenge.
Question 1: If there was a DNMC checkbox, would you adjust your scoring in any way? (ie. still vote the shot a "1") |
Most definitely!
I'd be more likely to NOT vote a decent shot down because of the DNMC checkbox.
I realize that paradoxically a DNMC shot would theoretically stand a better chance of doing well that way, but in turn, the photographer will get more accurate feedback as to the general consensus of whether or not he/she met the challenge.
All detractors of this issue aside, I really think over time, the quality of meeting the challenges would get better.
Originally posted by L2:
Question 2: How would you feel if a ribbon-winning shot had the DNMC shot box checked off by say, 50% of the voters, but still won? 25%? 10%? |
I think that's a very real possibility, but I think the numbers would balance out and the quality of challenge meeting images would increase.
As Robert Bear_Music pointed out, there are often occasions where we spend time trying to do something to meet a challenge and a "pretty picture" wins out on sheer appeal, regardless of its merit meeting the challenge.
It would be interesting to see an attempt at resolving the issue......if nothing else, after a trial period, then all the people who are annoyed/opposed to this line of discussion could then state that it's been tried and didn't work should the process fail.
The checkbox, like that proverbial radio dial, could be ignored by those who don't care and won't be bothered.
Sounds like a win-win scenario, but that's just this man's opinion.
All that I'm saying is that it wouldn't be really asking for more than to include one more little statistic for the voters' interest......it's not like there needs to be anything more than self-regulation initially, if ever, but I'd be surprised if the idea didn't have some influence over time, no matter that it may be slight.
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09/22/2007 06:24:21 AM · #143 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I think this is what people are beefing about: that a number of photographers go to great lengths to "solve" the challenge, and their efforts go unrewarded as rather generic images that happen to marginally "fit" the challenge win ribbons because they are beautiful. |
If you care about winning ribbons just make your photo more pretty. Problem solved! :)
Message edited by author 2007-09-22 06:25:01.
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09/22/2007 08:16:23 AM · #144 |
Originally posted by Emma_Rose:
Originally posted by hipychik:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Holy *#@!
This place is out of control. Waah, waah, waaaaahhhhh!
DNMC. Who cares? Leave a comment, don't leave a comment. Blah, blah, blah...
Photography, like any type of art, is subjective to personal opinions and taste. Some like it, some won't. Some will say perfect shot for the challenge, some will say DNMC. What's the big friggin deal?!
I say no to adding anything else to the voting setup. It's enough to get people to vote as it is. Don't make it any more complicated.
Now - go take some photos, vote on some images, love it, hate it, leave a comment, or don't. Be the individuals that you are and have some fun - and lighten up!!! Life's too short. Geeesssh. |
YAY! |
well said |
Thanks! :D
My opinion still stands, maybe even more after some recent activity in this thread. :) |
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09/22/2007 08:18:45 AM · #145 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Yes......and we have just as much right to tell you that it's rude ... |
That you do - opinion noted. Carry on. :) |
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09/22/2007 08:48:45 AM · #146 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by L2:
OK, let's say, for the sake of argument, that we do wind up with a DNMC checkbox...but that you still can't be disqualified for not meeting the challenge just like now.
Fast forward 12 challenges later, when a shot ribbons but also has a stat where x% of the voters didn't think it met challenge.
Question 1: If there was a DNMC checkbox, would you adjust your scoring in any way? (ie. still vote the shot a "1") |
Most definitely!
I'd be more likely to NOT vote a decent shot down because of the DNMC checkbox.
I realize that paradoxically a DNMC shot would theoretically stand a better chance of doing well that way, but in turn, the photographer will get more accurate feedback as to the general consensus of whether or not he/she met the challenge.
All detractors of this issue aside, I really think over time, the quality of meeting the challenges would get better.
Originally posted by L2:
Question 2: How would you feel if a ribbon-winning shot had the DNMC shot box checked off by say, 50% of the voters, but still won? 25%? 10%? |
I think that's a very real possibility, but I think the numbers would balance out and the quality of challenge meeting images would increase.
As Robert Bear_Music pointed out, there are often occasions where we spend time trying to do something to meet a challenge and a "pretty picture" wins out on sheer appeal, regardless of its merit meeting the challenge.
It would be interesting to see an attempt at resolving the issue......if nothing else, after a trial period, then all the people who are annoyed/opposed to this line of discussion could then state that it's been tried and didn't work should the process fail.
The checkbox, like that proverbial radio dial, could be ignored by those who don't care and won't be bothered.
Sounds like a win-win scenario, but that's just this man's opinion.
All that I'm saying is that it wouldn't be really asking for more than to include one more little statistic for the voters' interest......it's not like there needs to be anything more than self-regulation initially, if ever, but I'd be surprised if the idea didn't have some influence over time, no matter that it may be slight. |
I really don't see how this solves the issue at all. First let me say that I don't belive that this is an issue but you guys are members and have your right to post in the forums. Adding a DNMC button that has no influence on the outcome of the winner is pointless, imo. You can do the same thing now, by leaving a comment that you feel the picture isn't meeting the challenge in your opinion, and the same thing happens, which is nothing other than your opinion being heard. I don't get why you would want to add any steps to voting, hence making it more difficult or tedious to vote. Maybe I'm a simple minded person but as the system stands right now you have two voices when it comes to voting. You have the voice of the actual vote(which is more powerful of the two) and you have the comments section on the photo, use them! Do we really need anything more? |
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09/22/2007 09:15:59 AM · #147 |
Originally posted by JBHale:
Originally posted by bryanbrazil:
I'm still on vacation in Utah, so I haven't had access to DPC very often. It's been interesting reading all of the comments regarding my image, though.
For the record, here's how I approach DPC. I photograph whatever I'm interested in. Then I just look through my recent images and submit anything that I can fit into a challenge.
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I can certainly appreciate that! However, I can also appreciate those that put hard work into the challenges. If only there can be a middle ground where people can exercise creativity and others can fit the challenge. Like maybe vaguer challenge descriptions... |
... and even then people would find a way to bitch about something.
I would hazard to guess that in the vast majority of instances, the few DNMC comments had very little impact on the overall placement of the image.
Ray |
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09/22/2007 09:32:12 AM · #148 |
| I think someone should just instigate an INNIE prize - like the opposite of an oobie - for whatever shot may be judged to have fulfilled the challenge best. |
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09/22/2007 09:37:33 AM · #149 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
[quote=glad2badad] [quote=bmartuch] [quote=glad2badad]
There was reasonable and intelligent discussion and decent ideas being exchanged. |
well, if you read between the lines... i.e cut out all the insults, he's pretty much saying that photography is very subjective, and its difficult to put a restriciton on challenges.
anyway.. my thoughts are that I really don't think you should have a DNMC box or anything like that- its difficult to get a balance between being obvious for a challenge and just not meeting it.
For example you see loads and loads of similar photos and its nice when you see one that has an original or creative idea for the challenge.
Some people (myself included admittedly) have tried and failed at some ideas, but I think a different voting system would discourage originality and creativity.
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09/22/2007 11:23:40 AM · #150 |
| Well, there's always back to my original idea of having a checkbox, but if say 75% of voters say the image is DNMC, it's disqualified. I feel that's fair. |
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