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11/29/2007 12:09:40 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
They cannot even teaching reading, 'riting, and 'rithmatic correctly anymore. |
Sorry. That made me giggle a little bit. Carry on. |
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11/29/2007 12:10:25 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Inquisitions, This was Catholic, not Christian.
Crusades, Again, Catholic, not Christian. |
You're referring to 'Catholic' as if it's a separate religion to Christianity. I always understood Catholicism to be a sub-set of Christianity? |
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11/29/2007 12:10:53 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
sanctioned slavery, The Bible does not condone slavery... Again, a lot of this was based on ignorance because most couldn't read back then... |
You are wrong. The bible most definitely condones slavery. See "the other thread".
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
gay rights protests, Here's one that does not belong in your list. Homosexuality is wrong, both naturally and from a Christian perspective. Protesting giving to those who choose this lifestyle special rights is simply political discourse. Sex and age and race are not chosen... so they don't equate. |
To suggest homosexuality is chosen is sheer ignorance. I assume you are not homosexual, so how you could you possibly know whether homosexual people have chosen their orientation? This point is made even leaving aside not only the scientific research on the subject, but the personal histories of homosexual people themselves, and the sheer absurdity of any individual choosing to be vilified and set upon by the rest of society.
Message edited by author 2007-11-29 12:11:42. |
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11/29/2007 12:13:50 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by Simms:
Simple answer really - its easier to brainwash people when they are still kids, thats why they do it at such a young age. |
Then it's a no-win situation. If you tell them there is a God, you're brainwashing them with your Theistic beliefs, if you tell them that God doesn't exist then you're encouraging them towards Atheism. Either way, when my son comes to tell me what he learned in Religion, I'm more tempted just to go along with it, mainly to make life easier for him.
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Just tell him he has a choice. |
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11/29/2007 12:17:02 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
sanctioned slavery, The Bible does not condone slavery... Again, a lot of this was based on ignorance because most couldn't read back then... |
You are wrong. The bible most definitely condones slavery. See "the other thread".
There are times in the OT where slavery is condoned yes -- of a thoroughly wicked and evil society. |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
gay rights protests, Here's one that does not belong in your list. Homosexuality is wrong, both naturally and from a Christian perspective. Protesting giving to those who choose this lifestyle special rights is simply political discourse. Sex and age and race are not chosen... so they don't equate. |
To suggest homosexuality is chosen is sheer ignorance. I assume you are not homosexual, so how you could you possibly know whether homosexual people have chosen their orientation? This point is made even leaving aside not only the scientific research on the subject, but the personal histories of homosexual people themselves, and the sheer absurdity of any individual choosing to be vilified and set upon by the rest of society. |
In your opinion. There are no widely accepted scientific studies that show homosexuality is a natural and unchosen lifestyle. There are some, but again, nothing concrete. I actually believe the disposition to it is something born with -- much like alcoholism. But having that predisposition does not make choosing to act on it valid and acceptable. No more than making alcoholics and their destructive choices "acceptable" through marches and TV shows would actually make thier choice right.
But regardless, my point is still valid. It's wrong in the eyes of Christians, so Christians speaking out against it should be expected and respected.
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11/29/2007 12:18:59 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Inquisitions, This was Catholic, not Christian.
Crusades, Again, Catholic, not Christian. |
You're referring to 'Catholic' as if it's a separate religion to Christianity. I always understood Catholicism to be a sub-set of Christianity? |
No. Christianity started in the first century and has been existant since then. Rome attempted to usurp Christianity and claimed(claims) to be the only true church, even backdating the papacy to the Apostle Peter.
The current spin is that Christianity is made up of Protestants and Catholics, but this is not accurate.
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11/29/2007 12:19:37 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Louis:
To suggest homosexuality is chosen is sheer ignorance. I assume you are not homosexual, so how you could you possibly know whether homosexual people have chosen their orientation? This point is made even leaving aside not only the scientific research on the subject, but the personal histories of homosexual people themselves, and the sheer absurdity of any individual choosing to be vilified and set upon the rest of society. |
Isnât that the funny thing about that argument? Growing up, I donât ever remember âchoosingâ to be heterosexual. I just remember starting to notice that girls have curves and I liked to look at them. Looking at guys didnât give me the same sense of pleasure as looking at girls. If sexuality is a choice, why donât I remember choosing?
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11/29/2007 12:21:20 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by milo655321:
Originally posted by Louis:
To suggest homosexuality is chosen is sheer ignorance. I assume you are not homosexual, so how you could you possibly know whether homosexual people have chosen their orientation? This point is made even leaving aside not only the scientific research on the subject, but the personal histories of homosexual people themselves, and the sheer absurdity of any individual choosing to be vilified and set upon the rest of society. |
Isnât that the funny thing about that argument? Growing up, I donât ever remember âchoosingâ to be heterosexual. I just remember starting to notice that girls have curves and I liked to look at them. Looking at guys didnât give me the same sense of pleasure as looking at girls. If sexuality is a choice, why donât I remember choosing? |
No one has said sexuality is a choice. That's a straw man argument.
Heterosexual is how we are ALL born -- just like we are born to breathe oxygen and drink fluids and eat food. There is no choice in these matters.
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11/29/2007 12:21:31 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
In your opinion. There are no widely accepted scientific studies that show homosexuality is a natural and unchosen lifestyle. There are some, but again, nothing concrete. I actually believe the disposition to it is something born with -- much like alcoholism. |
Sorry, but it's not a mental illness. That particular myth was debunked long ago. The rest of what you say is therefore baseless.
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
But regardless, my point is still valid. It's wrong in the eyes of Christians, so Christians speaking out against it should be expected and respected. |
Why on earth should intolerance be respected? I for one have absolutely no respect for any form of intolerance, much less intolerance cloaking itself in religious freedom or freedom of speech. |
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11/29/2007 12:22:45 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Your comment includes some items where people misappropriated the name of Christ -- and were not within their rights to do so. |
Only some?
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
This was Catholic, not Christian. |
ROFL! Catholicism was pretty much the only choice on the menu for the first 1500 years of Christianity. As for the rest of your post, such a display of bigotry and ignorance says more than I ever could. :-/ |
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11/29/2007 12:23:37 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
I actually believe the disposition to it is something born with -- much like alcoholism. But having that predisposition does not make choosing to act on it valid and acceptable. |
How very cosmopolitan of you...
So you agree that the kid I mentioned earlier has a RELIGIOUS right to wear a T-Shirt to school saying "Homosexuality is a sin, Islam is a lie, abortion is murder. Some issues are just black and white"
And some people think its ok to get your morals from the bible... |
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11/29/2007 12:26:35 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Inquisitions, This was Catholic, not Christian.
Crusades, Again, Catholic, not Christian. |
You're referring to 'Catholic' as if it's a separate religion to Christianity. I always understood Catholicism to be a sub-set of Christianity? |
No. Christianity started in the first century and has been existant since then. Rome attempted to usurp Christianity and claimed(claims) to be the only true church, even backdating the papacy to the Apostle Peter.
The current spin is that Christianity is made up of Protestants and Catholics, but this is not accurate. |
'Spin'? Looks like it's back to Wikipedia again; "Christianity is a monotheistic[1] religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as depicted in the New Testament.[2] Christianity teaches that Jesus is the Son of God and the Messiah prophesied in the Old Testament, and that the New Testament records the Gospel that was revealed by Jesus."
To be honest, I'm shocked by your assertions that Catholicism is not part of Christianity.
Here we go, a nice diagram to illustrate my point;
Not really where I wanted this thread to go, but I really have to defend the facts. |
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11/29/2007 12:33:11 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
No one has said sexuality is a choice. |
By âno oneâ, do you mean âIâ?
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Protesting giving to those who choose this lifestyle special rights is simply political discourse. Sex and age and race are not chosen... so they don't equate. |
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11/29/2007 12:33:14 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
To be honest, I'm shocked by your assertions that Catholicism is not part of Christianity. |
You shouldn't be. It is the modus operandus of every faith-based group to claim ultimate ownership of not only "The Truth", but also the lineage of the truth. They are reduced to irrelevance if they don't even give it a shot. |
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11/29/2007 12:34:01 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
In your opinion. There are no widely accepted scientific studies that show homosexuality is a natural and unchosen lifestyle. There are some, but again, nothing concrete. I actually believe the disposition to it is something born with -- much like alcoholism. |
Sorry, but it's not a mental illness. That particular myth was debunked long ago. The rest of what you say is therefore baseless.
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
But regardless, my point is still valid. It's wrong in the eyes of Christians, so Christians speaking out against it should be expected and respected. |
Why on earth should intolerance be respected? I for one have absolutely no respect for any form of intolerance, much less intolerance cloaking itself in religious freedom or freedom of speech. |
So you then are intolerent.
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11/29/2007 12:35:34 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Your comment includes some items where people misappropriated the name of Christ -- and were not within their rights to do so. |
Only some?
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
This was Catholic, not Christian. |
ROFL! Catholicism was pretty much the only choice on the menu for the first 1500 years of Christianity. As for the rest of your post, such a display of bigotry and ignorance says more than I ever could. :-/ |
You are incorrect. There were Christians since the first century. In the places where Catholicism was the "only choice on the menu" it was due to the oppressive and evil domination of Rome -- not any form of Christianity.
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11/29/2007 12:37:08 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by cheekymunky:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
I actually believe the disposition to it is something born with -- much like alcoholism. But having that predisposition does not make choosing to act on it valid and acceptable. |
How very cosmopolitan of you...
So you agree that the kid I mentioned earlier has a RELIGIOUS right to wear a T-Shirt to school saying "Homosexuality is a sin, Islam is a lie, abortion is murder. Some issues are just black and white"
And some people think its ok to get your morals from the bible... |
Actually, while the content of the shirt was 100% correct... it would not be a good Christian attitude to wear that at school, where such a true statement would polarize some of the very people this kid or others might be able to witness too and bring them unto a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.
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11/29/2007 12:37:57 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
sectarian violence, Haven't seen too many Baptists and Methodists firebombing one another, so not sure what you mean here. Again, 200 years ago or more there may have been examples of people acting on their own and claiming to be Christian (much like TBN televangelists today)
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Catholic, not Christian. |
Astounded by the notion of sectarian violence, and then claiming that Catholics are not Christian.
ayup... |
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11/29/2007 12:38:29 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Inquisitions, This was Catholic, not Christian.
Crusades, Again, Catholic, not Christian. |
You're referring to 'Catholic' as if it's a separate religion to Christianity. I always understood Catholicism to be a sub-set of Christianity? |
No. Christianity started in the first century and has been existant since then. Rome attempted to usurp Christianity and claimed(claims) to be the only true church, even backdating the papacy to the Apostle Peter.
The current spin is that Christianity is made up of Protestants and Catholics, but this is not accurate. |
'Spin'? Looks like it's back to Wikipedia again; "Christianity is a monotheistic[1] religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as depicted in the New Testament.[2] Christianity teaches that Jesus is the Son of God and the Messiah prophesied in the Old Testament, and that the New Testament records the Gospel that was revealed by Jesus."
To be honest, I'm shocked by your assertions that Catholicism is not part of Christianity.
Here we go, a nice diagram to illustrate my point;
Not really where I wanted this thread to go, but I really have to defend the facts. |
I've tried to correct Wikipedia in some of its misleading phrasing, but Wikipedia is about consensus (or mob rule) and the corrections keep getting undone.
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11/29/2007 12:38:49 PM · #45 |
| Now I know where you stand on such maters, I won't persue it any longer. |
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11/29/2007 12:38:55 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
You are incorrect. There were Christians since the first century. In the places where Catholicism was the "only choice on the menu" it was due to the oppressive and evil domination of Rome -- not any form of Christianity. |
What? What are you talking about? Catholicism is a form of Christianity! |
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11/29/2007 12:39:26 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by milo655321:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
No one has said sexuality is a choice. |
By âno oneâ, do you mean âIâ?
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Protesting giving to those who choose this lifestyle special rights is simply political discourse. Sex and age and race are not chosen... so they don't equate. |
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Again, no one said sexuality was a choice. Everyone is born heterosexual. Some people choose to act on homosexual impulses and for that they do not deserve any special rights.
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11/29/2007 12:39:54 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
For instance, I have co-workers who are Hindu. They talk about Shiva and the stapler-god and the toast-god, etc. I still like them and work with them and respect their right to their own faith. But I do not repsect Hinduism itself because to the Christian, it's a false religion. |
So the wafer-god is better than the toast-god? |
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11/29/2007 12:39:56 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
In your opinion. There are no widely accepted scientific studies that show homosexuality is a natural and unchosen lifestyle. There are some, but again, nothing concrete. I actually believe the disposition to it is something born with -- much like alcoholism. |
Sorry, but it's not a mental illness. That particular myth was debunked long ago. The rest of what you say is therefore baseless.
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
But regardless, my point is still valid. It's wrong in the eyes of Christians, so Christians speaking out against it should be expected and respected. |
Why on earth should intolerance be respected? I for one have absolutely no respect for any form of intolerance, much less intolerance cloaking itself in religious freedom or freedom of speech. |
So you then are intolerent. |
This is a very common and easily reducible argument. There is no requirement to tolerate those who are intolerant when matters of civil rights are endangered. |
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11/29/2007 12:40:23 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
sectarian violence, Haven't seen too many Baptists and Methodists firebombing one another, so not sure what you mean here. Again, 200 years ago or more there may have been examples of people acting on their own and claiming to be Christian (much like TBN televangelists today)
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Catholic, not Christian. |
Astounded by the notion of sectarian violence, and then claiming that Catholics are not Christian.
ayup... |
Subtle word twist on your part. Catholicism is not Christianity. I don't know what individual Catholics are.
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