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06/26/2008 05:59:30 PM · #51 |
| The truth was that I never intended to buy anything... it just made it easier for them to digest my picture taking. |
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06/26/2008 06:34:26 PM · #52 |
| That is a charming fib. Sometimes these little fibs contribute ever so much more to the general happiness than the truth, truth being often unappreciated, misunderstood. Malheureusement I usually tell the truth and people think I am crazy, though that is also true. |
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06/26/2008 07:37:48 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
The truth was that I never intended to buy anything... |
I never said I was planning to buy anything either, but I also didn't have to involve any relatives who might not be able to back up my story. I've more than forty years listening to politicians talk -- I've learned it is always advisable to evade or reframe the question if the answer is not to your advantage, but that lies will always be found out, and will cause more harm than the original offense (c.f. Richard Nixon). |
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06/27/2008 02:16:12 AM · #54 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
The truth was that I never intended to buy anything... |
I never said I was planning to buy anything either, but I also didn't have to involve any relatives who might not be able to back up my story. I've more than forty years listening to politicians talk -- I've learned it is always advisable to evade or reframe the question if the answer is not to your advantage, but that lies will always be found out, and will cause more harm than the original offense (c.f. Richard Nixon). |
Yeah, I had a friend who said he'd never lie to me, but he might evade or fit the question to his answer, so I had to know how to word my questions; for example, if I asked, "did you sleep with her?" he'd say no because they hadn't slept. If I asked, "did you have sex with her?" he'd say yes. He'd have made a GREAT politician!
Message edited by author 2008-06-27 02:16:38. |
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06/27/2008 08:22:53 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Yeah, I had a friend who said he'd never lie to me, but he might evade or fit the question to his answer, so I had to know how to word my questions; for example, if I asked, "did you sleep with her?" he'd say no because they hadn't slept. If I asked, "did you have sex with her?" he'd say yes. He'd have made a GREAT politician! |
At my age, unfortunately, this tends to reverse :-)
R.
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06/27/2008 09:04:25 AM · #56 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
I've never had a problem with anyone telling me to stop taking photos anywhere although when taking photos of flowers at the home depot I was asked if I was planning to purchase or just take pictures (I had been doing it for about half an hour and making myself quite at home). I told a little fib that I concocted before going that I was taking pictures so that my grandmother who was unable to get to the store due to her health could pick out what she wanted. They then left me alone to snap away at anything I wanted. |
Liar liar pants on fire. I thought you were better than that. ;\ |
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06/27/2008 09:32:06 AM · #57 |
In this situation, if you can take a movie with your cellphone, camera, etc and record voice, do it. And be sure to tell the guard and everyone else concerned that you are making an audiovisual recording, otherwise you may run afoul of the surveillance laws of your state.
If he questions you, ask what the state's penalties are for suppressing evidence (the recording may have to be used in court, or sent to his boss or even posted on the internet if its funny enough).
Also, see //www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf , especially the part that says:
"The specific elements vary among the states but in general it is unlawful for anyone to instill a fear that they may injure you, damage or take your property, or falsely accuse you of a crime just because you are taking photographs." |
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06/27/2008 10:48:49 AM · #58 |
Originally posted by JuliBoc:
I got yelled at yesterday for taking photos of an outdoor restaurant that serves hamburgers, hot dogs, milk shakes, ice cream, etc. There were two bus loads of campers crowded around the tables and ordering windows. I was snapping away from the sidewalk and parking lot, when one of the camp counselors yelled at me that I couldn't take photos of her camp.
I said I was photographing Doc's, the restaurant, and she continued to yell at me, "NO, NO, NO. You can't take pictures of the camp". I said it wasn't a camp, it was a public outdoor restaurant, and that if she didn't want the children included in the photos, she should get them back into the school buses.
That didn't go over very well with her, and she continued to yell. By then I had all the photos I needed and I left. But I hate confrontations like that, and I felt quite worked up the rest of the afternoon.
Thanks for providing a place for me to vent. I feel much better now. |
Now you've got me all worked up! Something similar happened to me when I was in high school shooting for the yearbook. I was told that we had to include as many different classes,groups, people, whatever in the yearbook, so I just started going up and down the halls looking for people. I was going to take a picture of a special ed student, who I'm sure would have loved to have had their pic in the yearbook (because everybody does!), and the teacher got up yelled in my face and slammed the door. Needless to say I was totally embarressed, but mostly for that poor kid. When will adults learn that there's a right and wrong way to approach a situation when it involves kids?
On another note, you mentioned Doc's and now I'm hungry! |
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06/27/2008 11:28:06 AM · #59 |
Perhaps s website somewhere... (make one)
There should be som public awareness campaign by Photographers wanting to be understood. Maybe getting some congressmen or stars like Drew Carey to promote the Photographer's rights.
At the same time instructing anyone who doesn't want to be in a photo, how to avoid it. Another reason not to pick your nose or scratch your _____ in public. |
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06/27/2008 12:57:16 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by justamistere:
Perhaps s website somewhere... (make one)
There should be som public awareness campaign by Photographers wanting to be understood. Maybe getting some congressmen or stars like Drew Carey to promote the Photographer's rights.
At the same time instructing anyone who doesn't want to be in a photo, how to avoid it. Another reason not to pick your nose or scratch your _____ in public. |
A rights campaign would be nice, except that photographers are currently perceived as public pariah thanks to the extremely bad image of the paparazzi. The most obnoxious photographers are making headlines often enough to give everyone a bad name. I'm sure that not all paparazzi are breaking laws and those that are should be dealt with for the laws they break (i.e. speeding or stalking).
Even when it's clear (at least to me) that the photographer is the one having rights violated (like in this video) news people will still villainize the photographer. I saw this story on CNN first and then CNN commentators kept debating about why the photographers even need another topless shot of Matthew McConaughey (since that's already been done). Never mind the question of the photographers civil rights.
So this makes me curious. If a celebrity is continually followed around by the same people what is keeping them from getting restraining orders on the basis of being stalked? |
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06/27/2008 02:39:52 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by JMart:
So this makes me curious. If a celebrity is continually followed around by the same people what is keeping them from getting restraining orders on the basis of being stalked? |
A restraining order would have to be based on their being an actual threat to the stalkee, not just a perceived loss of privacy. |
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06/28/2008 08:38:18 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
I've never had a problem with anyone telling me to stop taking photos anywhere although when taking photos of flowers at the home depot I was asked if I was planning to purchase or just take pictures (I had been doing it for about half an hour and making myself quite at home). I told a little fib that I concocted before going that I was taking pictures so that my grandmother who was unable to get to the store due to her health could pick out what she wanted. They then left me alone to snap away at anything I wanted. |
Liar liar pants on fire. I thought you were better than that. ;\ |
No you didn't. You just thought I thought I was better than that ;\ |
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06/30/2008 06:57:14 AM · #63 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
LOL - I was one, too, in 1987
Moonlighting while in the Navy in Vallejo, California. Working graveyard sleeping in guarding construction equipment at oil spill clean-up sites in Martinez. Ahhhh memories. :) |
Originally posted by kenskid:
Security guards are idiots. |
hehe (runs away and back into hiding) |
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06/30/2008 07:13:16 AM · #64 |
| Looks like I have a lot to look forward to when I get older... |
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06/30/2008 07:27:13 AM · #65 |
Well it is difficult to condone the poor behaviour of a misguided security guard who is overzealous when performing their assigned duty, it also seems clear from your post that you did not help defuse the situation much either and may in fact helped to escalate it?
For example, you said "I acted as if I didnât hear him and continued". How would you react to this clear disrespect of another person? Do you think that the security guard believed you and felt that you could not indeed hear what he said?
Perhaps we need to hear both sides of the story in order to get a balanced perspective. While I respect your version of the facts, it strikes me that the other side of the story may have more to say too? For example, "but can go A1 if pushed to far". Exactly how was your demeanour and how would the guard have reacted to it?
Your post makes me wonder if we are reading a one-sided accounting of the story? What was the guards reason for asking you to stop taking pictures of the building in the first place? There is likely more to this story than we can tell here?
Originally posted by SDW:
I was out taking pictures when I decided to take some of an abandoned hospital. From the street, in my car, I took a few pictures when a security guard yelled, âThis is private property. You canât take any pictures of this buildingâ.
Being that I was on a public street I acted as if I didnât hear him and continued. He got in his vehicle and pulled up next to my driverâs door. Rolled his window down and said, âI told you that you couldnât take pictures of this buildingâ. His demanding tone pissed me off. I am a nice guy but can go A1 if pushed to far. For those that donât know what âgoing A1â means just look up a past thread it will revile what âgoing A1â mean to me.
But I kept my cool and politely told the security guy unless this building has copyright restrictions I as a photographer and citizen have the right to take as many pictures of this structure as I wish, from whatever angle I wish, with what ever lens I wish, as long as I remain on public property while doing so.
Now he tells me he is going to call the police. I donât think he expected the response I was going to give him when he made that statement. Again politely I told him, âOKâ and since I was parked I put my hazards on and asked him would he kindly move his car so I can continue until the police arrive.
He picked up his cell phone and called someone or acted like he did and then told me the police would be here soon, I should leave. I told him no I prefer to wait on the police. He left while another security guard was parked in the parking lot of the building. I assumed he called that person and not the police since they did not show up; I waited 30 minutes.
While waiting the second security guard motioned for me to come over to his vehicle. I refused knowing that if stepped on the posted-private property they would have a reason to call the police.
I know this was a long post but it is so stupid how some security guards and police act when they see a person with a camera. Makes me wonder how much of a hassle they gave the people that put bullet holes through half the windows. |
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06/30/2008 08:54:03 AM · #66 |
Originally posted by Morgan:
Well it is difficult to condone the poor behaviour of a misguided security guard who is overzealous when performing their assigned duty, it also seems clear from your post that you did not help defuse the situation much either and may in fact helped to escalate it?
For example, you said "I acted as if I didnât hear him and continued". How would you react to this clear disrespect of another person? Do you think that the security guard believed you and felt that you could not indeed hear what he said?
Perhaps we need to hear both sides of the story in order to get a balanced perspective. While I respect your version of the facts, it strikes me that the other side of the story may have more to say too? For example, "but can go A1 if pushed to far". Exactly how was your demeanour and how would the guard have reacted to it?
Your post makes me wonder if we are reading a one-sided accounting of the story? What was the guards reason for asking you to stop taking pictures of the building in the first place? There is likely more to this story than we can tell here?
Originally posted by SDW:
I was out taking pictures when I decided to take some of an abandoned hospital. From the street, in my car, I took a few pictures when a security guard yelled, âThis is private property. You canât take any pictures of this buildingâ.
Being that I was on a public street I acted as if I didnât hear him and continued. He got in his vehicle and pulled up next to my driverâs door. Rolled his window down and said, âI told you that you couldnât take pictures of this buildingâ. His demanding tone pissed me off. I am a nice guy but can go A1 if pushed to far. For those that donât know what âgoing A1â means just look up a past thread it will revile what âgoing A1â mean to me.
But I kept my cool and politely told the security guy unless this building has copyright restrictions I as a photographer and citizen have the right to take as many pictures of this structure as I wish, from whatever angle I wish, with what ever lens I wish, as long as I remain on public property while doing so.
Now he tells me he is going to call the police. I donât think he expected the response I was going to give him when he made that statement. Again politely I told him, âOKâ and since I was parked I put my hazards on and asked him would he kindly move his car so I can continue until the police arrive.
He picked up his cell phone and called someone or acted like he did and then told me the police would be here soon, I should leave. I told him no I prefer to wait on the police. He left while another security guard was parked in the parking lot of the building. I assumed he called that person and not the police since they did not show up; I waited 30 minutes.
While waiting the second security guard motioned for me to come over to his vehicle. I refused knowing that if stepped on the posted-private property they would have a reason to call the police.
I know this was a long post but it is so stupid how some security guards and police act when they see a person with a camera. Makes me wonder how much of a hassle they gave the people that put bullet holes through half the windows. |
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True you are not hearing both sides of the story because he can't talk for himself, I respect that.
As far a escalating the situation that is big misconception. The photographer should pack his camera and leave? NO! To help you understand WHY I acted as if I didn't hear him, because he was try to yell at me from a distance of about 100 yards. If he wanted to respect me he could of came over to the public property I was on and asked me kindly not to take pictures. Instead he wanted to yell in a rude way so I acted as if I could not hear he so he would come over and we could talk. He was the one that pulled next to me and was very rude. Every word I spoke to him was is a calm voice.
When he pulled next to me on public property, if he would of said "in a professional and calm manner", this building is private property and you are not allowed to take pictures of it. I may have said OK, and explained why I wanted to take the pictures and honored his wishes even though I had the right to take them.
But with his attitude, scolding me like a child, I was not going to be forced to abandon my rights as a citizen of the US and as a photographer from taking pictures. When he said he was going to call the police I told him OK and parked with hazards on and waited for the police. How could this escalate the situation?
As far as the quote, "but can go A1 if pushed to far". That is a reference to how kind I am but If attacked I will stand my ground. Now with that said the guard never attempted to attack me other than verbally. I had my family with me and I would NOT do anything that would teach my teenagers that violence and heated altercations can solve a problem. Even though his conversation toward me was heated, I keep my side calm and factual.
Hope this helps shed light on the situation a little bit. Even though there are always two sides to every story, in some cases the one you read about is the facts - no more, no less!
Scott
Message edited by author 2008-06-30 08:57:32. |
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