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11/19/2003 02:26:06 AM · #1 |
I think lots of people understood that the propaganda should be politic only. There are so many different kinds. I don't know if I am allowed to bring examples but there are pro's propaganda and there are anti- this or that - propaganda. Not to talk about a very different kind of propaganda... spread around by some persons with one common interest, trying to inoculate an idea into the rest of the population.
In order to make sure I am not talking about nobody's entry, I will give an imaginary example: "Coneheads are uncommonly smart". This I see it as propaganda also. Doesn't need no huge prints on walls to go with it. Is an idea pushed by some to the rest. Propaganda.
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11/19/2003 02:46:19 AM · #2 |
But too large interpretation is already an advertisement.
Sry, I made ac opy from //docgoldstein.tripod.com/stangoldstein/id10.html
PROPAGANDA, BRIEFLY
Despite propaganda's unsavory tone it originated in the desire of Pope Gregory XV to peacefully propagate the Catholic faith in the struggle against Protestantism four hundred years ago. Becoming widely practiced in the twentieth century, it was intended to manage attitudes and bind public allegiance to policy, something considered essential for government activity. After its use by Nazi Germany (who followed earlier American and British successes), democracies shied away from using the term and, after the Second World War, contrasted their "information" with "deceitful Communist propaganda."
The basic concept is that reality is too complex for people so a simplified psychological environment must be created to gain their allegiance toward desirable goals. These were considered by General Eisenhower to be "paper bullets" and highly effective weapons.
Modern warfare involves civilian populations becoming unified through belief in their nation's goal and willing to sacrifice while denying the legitimacy of the enemy. Thus leaders must assert the morality of their position using powerful graphic images to (if necessary) overwhelm the truth (as with "the barbaric Hun"). But this can backfire. False allied atrocity stories about German behavior during World War One caused many to doubt published reports of their true atrocities twenty five years later.
Victory is gained with arms, diplomacy, and propaganda: destroying an enemy's forces while fragmenting its relations with allies and the public consensus which maintains support. Producing effective images ("propaganda") is a deadly serious pursuit.
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11/19/2003 02:50:23 AM · #3 |
Amazonea, as an example of what you say, my idea was a shot of a Barbie doll using either light or shadow to highlight the hips and breasts. The title would have been "When I Grow Up...." Basically, selling the image of what a woman should look like.
Unfortunately, all I got was a pathetic picture of a Barbie and it really said nothing to me. So I deleted it. |
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11/19/2003 02:59:36 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by Trinch:
Amazonea, as an example of what you say, my idea was a shot of a Barbie doll using either light or shadow to highlight the hips and breasts. The title would have been "When I Grow Up...." Basically, selling the image of what a woman should look like.
Unfortunately, all I got was a pathetic picture of a Barbie and it really said nothing to me. So I deleted it. |
I know what you mean... I was just looking at some photos. Trying too hard to fit the challenge, some forget that after all, the QUALITY of the picture will decide.
But I did not finish browsing yet. I am sure there are good pictures out there too.
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11/19/2003 03:37:19 AM · #5 |
I think, that big part of Quality is also is it fitting on this contest or no.
It is bit strange, if you can post in every challenge nice macro and can not put there right title.
I have lived 20 years in the word with fixed price for goods - it means - no marketing was possible, but propaganda was everywhere.
What ever - Barby idea would be excellent. |
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11/19/2003 03:49:45 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by kinks:
I have lived 20 years in the word with fixed price for goods - it means - no marketing was possible, but propaganda was everywhere.
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Tell me about it, Sirje, I came from Romania. But it was a different kind of propaganda in my country. Something like: "No meal without fish!" as we had enough fish but the meat was exported.
And about the quality of the photos and the subjects of the challenges, I don't mean that we should put just any beautiful photo just because it is beautiful. No, in order to be well rated, it has to meet both requests. To fit the challenge and to be a good photo. I had an idea which I thought as beeing very good. Pictures turned out bad so I just dropped that subject.
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11/19/2003 04:11:54 AM · #7 |
Some people have recreated propaganda shots, others have photographed actual existing propaganda ... so who's 'right'?
Although I tend to the first ones, both will only get good marks if the recreated/existing propaganda is photographed in a 'photographically very interesting' way. Not just a snap shot ...
Just my .02 |
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11/19/2003 04:22:04 AM · #8 |
I have made submissions by 2 different ways.
1. go out, take nice shots (with quality only). Then i go home and choose from them a right one. So i made my highest rated picture - BORING
2. i think about idea of challenge. Drow a picture in my head and than will make a photo (and then almost nobody do not understand, what i was thinking, but i am glad)
May be, it is important to get ribbons, but it is also importand to be self-satisfied.
And when your picture is underrated, does not mean, that i have to put low rates to others, it does not help to be a favorite for EVERYBODY. |
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11/19/2003 05:09:23 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by SoulHunter74:
Some people have recreated propaganda shots, others have photographed actual existing propaganda ... so who's 'right'?
Although I tend to the first ones, both will only get good marks if the recreated/existing propaganda is photographed in a 'photographically very interesting' way. Not just a snap shot ...
Just my .02 |
I agree with both kinds if they are nice and they tell me something, but I am sorry, I marked 5 and under 5 those that just took a photo of a print.
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11/19/2003 08:46:32 AM · #10 |
I have been a bit disappointed with the resulting photos of this challenge. Although I have seen some good ones, only one really jumped out at me. Perhaps it is because I am new here but, thus far it had been really hard for me to choose a favorite because so many were so good. In my opinion, this challenge has resulted in some mediocre results.
The print shots in this challenge irritated me. I felt the challenge was to create propaganda, not photograph someone else's. |
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11/19/2003 09:45:06 AM · #11 |
I already got comments from user surprised where is propaganda in my entry. Unfortunately I can't reply just to this user for his comments, but I can put few my points here why ppl sometimes won̢۪t find propaganda in others photos. I think propaganda closely related to country where user lives. I give an example. As someone told "No meal without fish" for Romania, difficult to accept it as propaganda, but it's reality of ppl who lives in this country. Or there is other example "propaganda of Christmas"? Difficult to understand where is propaganda here, because most ppl have a Christmas time every year and nobody think this is propaganda. But try to think about it from point of view user who submits such entry. In some countries there is no Christmas at all, ppl have New Year time and for them celebration of Christmas is kind of propaganda of other countries. More colorful example of different style for propaganda is Russia-USA. It's always "Uncle Sam" and "Communism". Don't expect that everyone able to understand submission of ppl from this two countries. This is just examples for my point that when you score someone photo you should read carefully title and try to put yourself in shoe of user photo belongs to. Try to find out and understand for each submission what ppl try to say, and then you may realize that entry is propaganda of some ideas that you accept as style of your life.
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11/19/2003 10:04:11 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by jaimeegrl:
The print shots in this challenge irritated me. I felt the challenge was to create propaganda, not photograph someone else's. |
pictures of the printed material don't do anything for me either... this is the photography site. |
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11/19/2003 10:07:15 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by slava:
I already got comments from user surprised where is propaganda in my entry. Unfortunately I can't reply just to this user for his comments, but I can put few my points here why ppl sometimes won̢۪t find propaganda in others photos. |
this is what i put in the remarks for my picture: i am not going to explain what i meant - if you didn't get it, i probably wasn't able to present my idea well enough...
fortunately, i already received one positive comment, so somebody already "got it", that's good enough for me! |
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11/19/2003 10:11:55 AM · #14 |
I only found 3 pictures that are not at al propaganda or advertising and one that I can't understand yet. It might be propaganda, but of a nature unknown to me. I am still thinking about it. I have about 5 days. If in 5 days I won't feel enlightened by an ideea, I will PM the photographer and ask.
Message edited by author 2003-11-19 10:12:50.
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11/19/2003 10:43:20 AM · #15 |
I've looked through them all and rated them, now I'm going back through to leave comments... I wish everyone would leave comments! It's my first challenge attempt, and since I can't (obviously) tell you which is mine and ask you to comment on it, I guess you'll just have to comment on everyone's! :)
I found a couple that I really liked, a lot that I felt met the challenge, some that met the challenge but didn't really "get" me, some advertisement-like ones, and a couple that I was totally just "huh?" on. Still looking at those though, since it might just be me being stupid! |
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11/19/2003 10:55:57 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by Allyrellia:
I found a couple that I really liked, a lot that I felt met the challenge, some that met the challenge but didn't really "get" me, some advertisement-like ones, and a couple that I was totally just "huh?" on. Still looking at those though, since it might just be me being stupid! |
I don't think anybody is stupid if he doesn't get an idea... is just the different background, different reality that each one is living and that might be unknown to others. 15 years ago... if I would have participate in a challenge (not that I knew to push the button at the time) with a subject like let's say "Mourning" and if I saw people dressed in white, I would have said perhaps: "It doesn't meet the challenge". I didn't know at the time that somewhere in this world the mourning colour is white. At my age, if I didn't know yet and see a bride in red, before saying "It doesn't meet the challenge" I would think twice. There might be traditions, customs, sayings that I have no idea of. This doesn't mean that they don't exist or that I am stupid. I just didn't cross that road. (Strange saying maybe?)
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11/19/2003 11:01:22 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by amazoneea:
Originally posted by SoulHunter74:
Some people have recreated propaganda shots, others have photographed actual existing propaganda ... so who's 'right'?
Although I tend to the first ones, both will only get good marks if the recreated/existing propaganda is photographed in a 'photographically very interesting' way. Not just a snap shot ...
Just my .02 |
I agree with both kinds if they are nice and they tell me something, but I am sorry, I marked 5 and under 5 those that just took a photo of a print. |
I agree in gender and number!
If someone takes a picture of a print, they can´t express your vision of challenge theme. In this contest, specially, I rate very low those people. I don´t enter this challenge because I had not time to get a big pic. I can´t consider a print´s picture an art expression. It´s only a digitized picture, less than a snapshot, a form to preserve and share the original material.
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11/19/2003 11:01:39 AM · #18 |
My view on Propoganda when I took my photo was:
Advertising sells an product.
Propoganda sells an idea or moral.
I also don't think it just has to be political.
Some of the entries are just totally off-topic and if/when I vote they'll see it reflected...I'll try to comment, but it's that far off-topic, I won't waste my time.
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11/19/2003 11:21:23 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by Ami Yuy:
My view on Propoganda when I took my photo was:
Advertising sells an product.
Propoganda sells an idea or moral.
I also don't think it just has to be political.
Some of the entries are just totally off-topic and if/when I vote they'll see it reflected...I'll try to comment, but it's that far off-topic, I won't waste my time. |
You are totally right!
Message edited by author 2003-11-19 11:21:40. |
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11/19/2003 11:38:08 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by kinks:
I have made submissions by 2 different ways.
1. go out, take nice shots (with quality only). Then i go home and choose from them a right one. So i made my highest rated picture - BORING |
Unfortunately, I think people are going to think I took this approach on my shot, when in fact I went and sought out my shot (like you said in approach 2 - saw a picture in my head, and went out to create it. Oh well.
And, I agree with just about everyone so far - just taking a picture of someone else's propoganda wasn't within the spirit of this challenge. |
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11/19/2003 12:17:04 PM · #21 |
For my part, I shall vote according to this idea: that propaganda is the underhand use of an image to further a political/religious/social/moral idea or ideology. The honest use would be communication, simply. In it's commonest useage, proaganda implies a level of dishonesty, or at the very least of selective vision.
I'll be pretty forgiving with images that don't really suggest this to me, but those that get the highest scores from me will have achieved that aim.
PS. Won't be at all surprised if this is the lowest scoring challenge ever
Ed
Message edited by author 2003-11-19 12:27:34.
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11/19/2003 01:27:08 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by e301:
propaganda is the underhand use of an image to further a political/religious/social/moral idea or ideology |
Propaganda, much like history, is determined by perspective. Look at the art of the former Soviet Union where it often showed people spreading communism throughout the world. To many of us in the West that would be a classic example of propaganda. While a poster from the US telling us that buckling up saves lives would seem to be just good information. Both are propaganda though. It's all a matter of perspective. |
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11/19/2003 01:54:01 PM · #23 |
I'll admit up front that I didn't create new propaganda, I took a picture of someone elses propaganda. What I did do was try to shoot the propaganda to reflect my view of it. I feel I am being cryptic here, but I can't really comment on my photograph yet. I guess what I am trying to say is that not everyone created propaganda, I captured it in a way I felt propagated it and so when judging, take a few minutes to think about each shot, is like half the normal number of entries, so try to take twice as long and find the photographers meaning.
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11/19/2003 01:59:33 PM · #24 |
Wish I had taken this last week for the propaganda Challenge (of course without the text)
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=47760
what do you think . |
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11/19/2003 02:50:42 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by e301:
For my part, I shall vote according to this idea: that propaganda is the underhand use of an image to further a political/religious/social/moral idea or ideology. |
By underhand, you give propaganda a loaded, negative bias. Yet propaganda can be good and can be used to good ends, and does not have to be secret or clandestine in any way. There are lots of positive examples of propaganda: Smokey the Bear, Hootie the Owl, and others (I didn't see them in the images, by the way). Propaganda has taken a sinister tone, but it is all around us, and we are subjected to it all the time.
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