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DPChallenge Forums >> Out and About >> LAPD Confiscated My Two 8-Gig Cards.. What to do?!
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Showing posts 26 - 50 of 125, (reverse)
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 08/10/2009 12:50:30 AM · #26
It would be interesting to ask a working photojurnalist what happens when the police ask for their photos. My guess is that they cooperate but maintain pocession of at least copies.
 08/10/2009 02:08:37 AM · #27
jbsmith, you are talking to one. right now. no, possession of the card itself is not turned over. Photos are brought back, and it is up to the publisher to decide what to do with the photos. This is how it works at most newspapers. The police can get a court order if they choose, but usually newspapers are pretty cooperative. In my case, my publisher pretty much leaves it up to me, and in my case, I happily copy all images onto a cd, and provide them with a copy.
 08/10/2009 02:11:04 AM · #28
Would be awesome if they made a camera with 2 card slots and allowed you to optionally mirror the primary card. Then you just turn over the one card to the cops and walk away whistling.

ETA: Hmmm, seems like something a third party could put in a battery grip as well.

...nothing like giving away all my inventions. :)

Message edited by author 2009-08-10 02:12:03.
 08/10/2009 02:40:59 AM · #29
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Would be awesome if they made a camera with 2 card slots and allowed you to optionally mirror the primary card. Then you just turn over the one card to the cops and walk away whistling.

ETA: Hmmm, seems like something a third party could put in a battery grip as well.

...nothing like giving away all my inventions. :)


i thought i saw the rofl-card-o-matic-mao card copier before on ebay...
not only does it automatically backs up your memorycard into another copy,
it also automatically deletes blurred and out of focus images!

but seriously, doesnt cameras with dual memory cards do that already? hmm
 08/10/2009 03:40:52 AM · #30
Originally posted by crayon:
but seriously, doesnt cameras with dual memory cards do that already? hmm

Yup - Canon 1D mkIII, and now the new Nikon D300s both have a CF slot AND an SDHC slot for mirroring.
 08/10/2009 09:13:01 AM · #31
Still unbelivable.

It is called chain of evidence.

if someone takes it home and downloads it, there is no reason they can not delete, change things on the card.

You caught an attempted murder, not some pretty flower shot.

I am actually stunned that people would not consider turning over their card.

Kinda suck if it was one of your children or family members getting beaten to a pulp and someone refused to hand over the evidence that would send them to jail.

Whatever happened to morals, the greater good, law, or is it now all just about a gritty photograph or making money from it.

Unbelivable

08/10/2009 09:38:07 AM · #32
Odds are you are going to get the guardian angels in equal amounts of trouble on this one. They are hardly sanctioned by the authorities, and have had numerous incidents involving them.

Personally, I wouldn't have let those cards go, due to that fact, and also due to the fact that there was a large group of people, who would be able to give a viable description of the suspect, and then also use the CC security systems that are all over those subways to identify the person in question.

How many of the people iwho replied in this thread are photojournalist, just out of curiousity. Id be surprised if any legitimate PJs would be giving this kid grief, other than telling him it was a pisspoor idea to turn it over.
 08/10/2009 09:46:55 AM · #33
Interesting read. A class project seems insignificant compared to the event captured--to everyone except the student. But I am thinking how upset a newspaper/tv editor would be to find out that the video was confiscated by the police. A photojouornalist who let that happen too often would soon be out of a job. You would need a death-grip on your camera, a stone-cold knowledge of your rights/responsibilities, & good running shoes to complement your nose for news.

Message edited by author 2009-08-10 09:48:42.
 08/10/2009 11:14:08 AM · #34
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Would be awesome if they made a camera with 2 card slots and allowed you to optionally mirror the primary card. Then you just turn over the one card to the cops and walk away whistling.

ETA: Hmmm, seems like something a third party could put in a battery grip as well.

...nothing like giving away all my inventions. :)


Ken Canon has had that ability for many years in the 1 series. I sometimes shoot JPEG on one card and RAW on the other for very important stuff, and I can turn on dual copy in the course of a couple of seconds. I can also after the fact copy from my SD to my CF card on my 1DMKIII which makes it nice in this type of situation, I could still supply photos to wire or my local editor depending on what it is that I shot. I routinely give photos to the fire dept or police departments I work with.

Matt
 08/10/2009 11:26:43 AM · #35
Originally posted by ajdelaware:

How many of the people iwho replied in this thread are photojournalist, just out of curiousity. Id be surprised if any legitimate PJs would be giving this kid grief, other than telling him it was a pisspoor idea to turn it over.


If the OP was a legitimate photojournalist he would be operating under a different set of rules. As far as I can tell, he's a student and, as such, a private citizen who happened to be at a crime scene with his camera. His rights will vary with the jurisdiction in which the crime took place.

His main concern now is his class. IMNSHO, he should get a note or receipt from the police to show to his instructor. Could be that he could substitute his photos for an essay on his experience. This is without a doubt a teachable moment.

As for getting the cards back, I'm pretty sure all evidence is kept until trial and all appeals are exhausted.
 08/10/2009 11:37:04 AM · #36
Originally posted by ajdelaware:

How many of the people iwho replied in this thread are photojournalist, just out of curiousity. Id be surprised if any legitimate PJs would be giving this kid grief, other than telling him it was a pisspoor idea to turn it over.


I work for a weekly paper as a PJ.

Matt
 08/10/2009 11:45:12 AM · #37
Originally posted by Germaine:
If the OP was a legitimate photojournalist he would be operating under a different set of rules. As far as I can tell, he's a student and, as such, a private citizen who happened to be at a crime scene with his camera. His rights will vary with the jurisdiction in which the crime took place.


There is no legal distinction for a 'real' or 'legitimate' photojournalist, anyone with a camera has the potential of having his/her images published and thus there are not different rules governing laypeople & "photographers", although the respect afforded to either may vary depending on what the officer thinks he can get away with.
 08/10/2009 12:07:38 PM · #38
After taking these shots (see below), a police officer asked me for a business card so that he could get in touch with me, if needed.


(click for larger image)

Message edited by author 2009-08-11 02:26:14.
 08/10/2009 12:28:58 PM · #39
Interesting. We have two (including me) PhotoJ's here, and neither would hand over the card (way to go MattO!). AP, you are correct, there is no distinction. He could have easily used those for freelance purposes should he have chosen. Just because you are not on staff for a newspaper doesnt mean that you dont carry the same rights. You should be glad that you DO have the same rights in fact.
 08/10/2009 01:51:35 PM · #40
Don't expect to get the evidence you supplied to them back.
I know I never got my stuff back (not photography related items) and it's been 2 or 3 years plus the case was dismissed. :/
 08/10/2009 02:25:56 PM · #41
Just suppose you were sitting in a cafe and overheard a conversation where an assination was to take place later that evening, including all the details of where, when etc. Suppose the victum is to be Federal Senator Widebottom, an extreamly liberal Democrat. Would you think it would be OK to keep it to yourself and try to get exclusive pics of the attempt or should you advise the authorities?
What if it was a conservative Republican? Make any difference?

08/10/2009 02:32:03 PM · #42
suppose the world were to be overran by giant ants. Some of them were conservative and some of them were liberal.... Suppose the only way to stop the invasion was with a massive amount of aquanet hairspray and zippo lighters.....
 08/10/2009 02:35:24 PM · #43
Originally posted by David Ey:
Just suppose you were sitting in a cafe and overheard a conversation where an assination was to take place later that evening, including all the details of where, when etc. Suppose the victum is to be Federal Senator Widebottom, an extreamly liberal Democrat. Would you think it would be OK to keep it to yourself and try to get exclusive pics of the attempt or should you advise the authorities?
What if it was a conservative Republican? Make any difference?


DNMC
 08/10/2009 02:42:12 PM · #44
Wow - Quite a lot of different responses! Ok, to get things straight: I'm completely alright with helping the police with anything I can, not just when someone I'm photographing gets sent to the emergency room. If I didn't have a 2-month senior project to hand in to my professor, I would've offered them the cards before they even asked me. They're the police and they're just trying to do their job. I have pictures of the people that need to be arrested, so I'm obviously going to be a good citizen, and help.

Some of you were quick to attack and accuse me of wrong motives, but it seems like that's just your personality, so I forgive you. Again, the only reason I was hesitant is because this is a huge project, and I'm about to graduate.

Originally posted by karmat:
I'm not a lawyer of any kind, so take this for what it is worth, but IF the police had a copy of any form or fashion and not the original card, and I was a defense attorney, I would have a field day speculating (or at least getting the jury to question) whether or not the "evidence" had been tampered with upon copying, or during the time between the crime and when the cards were turned over.


Exactly!

Originally posted by FF112173:
You did the right thing. Ask the police for a property receipt for your project and be proud of what you did.


Thanks! I did ask for a receipt, and this morning I took it in to school to tell my teacher and hopefully get some leeway. Unfortunately, he said a deadline is a deadline, and I wouldn't be getting a grade. Bummer! :(

Originally posted by JulietNN:

Oh and now you are all torn up, cos you have NOTHING for your little school project?????????


That was rude.

Originally posted by crayon:

1) make a big fuss and hoo-ha about it, contact the press, contact your lawyers, turn yourself into a citizen's rights activist and make a campaign, gain support for the movement against "police misuse of power" or some crap like
or
2) sleep well at night knowing you assisted in an investigation to get justice for that poor "guardian angel" bloke
(i think option 1. can be more satisfying for some)


I'm all for the police. I'm the exact opposite of a hippie liberal, and I'm going with option #2 :)

Originally posted by amathiasphoto:
no, possession of the card itself is not turned over. Photos are brought back, and it is up to the publisher to decide what to do with the photos. This is how it works at most newspapers. The police can get a court order if they choose, but usually newspapers are pretty cooperative. In my case, my publisher pretty much leaves it up to me, and in my case, I happily copy all images onto a cd, and provide them with a copy.


That's what I asked the police if I could do, but they wouldn't agree to it. Newspapers get to keep their pictures all the time, and send them to the police when they ask for it. I should've been able to do that too.

Originally posted by ajdelaware:
Odds are you are going to get the guardian angels in equal amounts of trouble on this one. They are hardly sanctioned by the authorities, and have had numerous incidents involving them.


This is actually going to help them. They were helping two ladies who were being harassed by all the drunks outside of the club, and what I have clearly proves it.
 08/10/2009 02:49:12 PM · #45
I think you two are unable to comprehend or else you are ashamed of your answer.

Message edited by author 2009-08-10 14:50:36.
 08/10/2009 03:03:00 PM · #46
You don't need the originals for your project. I would think that the police could provide you with a copy and still maintain a solid chain of evidence. They may want to withhold the recording that would be used as evidence, but the rest should be fair game.
 08/10/2009 03:03:43 PM · #47
Originally posted by Tom:
I'm the exact opposite of a hippie liberal ...

Would that be a yuppie conservative? :-p

Tom, I commend you for the handling of the situation and the handling of your response to the comments in this thread.
 08/10/2009 03:11:54 PM · #48
US Constitution-Amendment V: ...;nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. -- I'd see a lawyer, there may be significant dollars here depending on how much is "just compensation." In my mind just compensation would be the amount of dollars it would cost for the LAPD et all to prosecute with out the photos.
 08/10/2009 03:16:58 PM · #49
My $.02 worth as a freelance and former full-time PJ. (Showing my age here I guess), when I shot film the police NEVER asked for the roll out of the camera, twice I gave them processed photos. As to the question of Chain of Evidence, I went to court and testified that I took the photos and had done no trickery. I have also shot injuries for lawyers, had to go to court to testify that I took them and they were printed straight from the card, but no one needed the cards.

As for digital, it works the same way, about a year ago I was shooting a football game and a fight between parents broke out, I gave the police my business card. They used my photos in court and I had to testify they were not doctored in any way, and had to give a brief explanation of EXIF data and what it represents.

They do not need the cards to preserve the chain of evidence and I would NEVER give a police officer my cards. Yes it's a pain to go to court and have to testify, but I have always happily done it as it is my duty as a citizen. It doesn't matter if your a working photographer or not, the same rules apply.
08/10/2009 04:07:41 PM · #50
Originally posted by David Ey:
I think you two are unable to comprehend or else you are ashamed of your answer.


The fact that you think each of your little scenarios would elicit a different response from anybody here says FAR MORE ABOUT YOU THAN ME. Your point also has nothing to do with the subject at hand, which began with zero political pretension. DNMC is fitting, unlike your desire to transform this into a political rant.

Sorry to hear about the no-grade thing, Tom, that's a real shame.
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