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03/14/2010 11:53:41 PM · #26 |
Sirashley, Those are some great shots! I know I have tried to shoot individual frames and everytime I do, I get butt shots. LOL
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03/15/2010 12:10:01 AM · #27 |
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03/15/2010 07:36:11 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by Sirashley:
Well, I'll throw in what little sports advice I know... I read an article awhile back from a former Sports Illustrated photographer who said that the biggest mistake that amateur photographers make when shooting sports is that they rely on the burst mode. He claimed the best way to get really good sports shots, was to wait for the perfect moment, and snap a single frame. He argued that while this does take allot of practice, when you get good at it, you will always be able to capture the exact moment. So, when I went to Dolphin's training camp last year, I tried doing just that... Firing a single frame, trying to capture the exact moment, and I really liked my results... Now... More importantly, bear in mind I was shooting with my old Sony a200, a $130.00 Sigma 70-300mm lense, I was 10 rows back and hand-holding..... Just my two cents...
oh and upon edit... the last photo is actually quite valuable... It is a really rare photo of Ted Ginn Jr. actually catching a football... :) |
I think what the Sports Illustrated guy said is oh so true. And it saves having to go through a BUNCH of throw aways!
Matt, said it's important to know your sport - I agree with this too!
General said, "
Another trick is to try to keep both eyes open at the same time, maintaining framing in the viewfinder through the right-eye, while monitoring the progress of the action with the left eye" This is wonderful advise and I learned to do that while shooting wrestling and man did it make a differnce in what I shot!  |
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03/15/2010 08:28:41 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by Luci11e:
I think what the Sports Illustrated guy said is oh so true. And it saves having to go through a BUNCH of throw aways!
Matt, said it's important to know your sport - I agree with this too! |
I agree with this SOOO MUCH!! I just recently did a girls volleyball game for my college and boy was it not fun seeing all the shots that were no good. So much hassle for the few good ones. Next time I will see what I can do with the single frame idea! Good tip! :) |
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03/15/2010 09:59:55 AM · #30 |
Nice thread and the info here is also applicable to all sorts of events in those often dark auditorium situations: dance, plays / dress rehearsals, for instance.
I have a question, related to gear. You said above that you would not comment on gear. I wonder if you might do so on this point though. I find that there is a lot of info on cameras, lenses, lights, and the use thereof on the Internet. But I have not yet found a good general "grip" site. There are lots of superclamps, C-clamps, Justin clamps, magic arms....... and all sorts of great hardware which can be used to attach strobes, cameras, reflectors to things. But I find it difficult to understand what each can do.
For instance, I want a clamp which I can use to attach strobes to a 4 inch pipe. Superclamps are OK for attaching cameras and strobes to small 2 inch pipes but do not work on larger pipes. Do you know of something that might work for this application? What do you use to attach strobes to in a basketball court?
Thanks... |
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03/15/2010 10:06:59 AM · #31 |
I just started shooting a local college team's hockey games for fun and to see if it was as bad as everything I'd read about shooting hockey. It is a challenge, that's for sure. The NCAA playoffs are well under way now, so Saturday was the last time this team will play at home this season. I chose to shoot the whole game from ice level behind the glass just to see if my camera and lens could handle it. I ended up with some decent shots, but that's got to be the hardest place to be when you're shooting a sport as challenging as hockey is. Anyway, here's one of the better shots:
I'm new here and this is my first post, so I was happy to see this thread. I'm thinking I'll be trying the spring, summer and fall sports while I wait patiently for next hockey season (I'm a BIG hockey fan.) So I'm sure I'll get plenty of use out of everyone else's expertise, their samples and their suggestions. Great idea, Matt, and thank you!
Message edited by author 2010-03-15 10:28:05. |
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03/15/2010 03:46:43 PM · #32 |
| can we embed images here from other websites? I'm not a paying member so don't have a portfolio I can link to. |
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03/15/2010 03:48:35 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Tez:
can we embed images here from other websites? I'm not a paying member so don't have a portfolio I can link to. |
As long as you are on topic and stay within the image size guidelines of the site sure.
Matt
I will get to the other questions and comments tonight at home. I'm at my day job now. |
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03/15/2010 03:51:05 PM · #34 |
My first indoor football game.
Apologies for the size, I can't create a thumbnail of a link so it has to be this big until I am told how to do it otherwise!
Message edited by author 2010-03-15 15:52:06. |
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03/15/2010 03:58:30 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Tez:
Apologies for the size, I can't create a thumbnail of a link so it has to be this big until I am told how to do it otherwise! |
If you can make (and upload) a thumbnail-sized version of your image, I can show you how to display a thumb here which links to your full-sized image elsewhere.
Otherwise, just make sure all linked images are no wider than 500 pixels -- you can place a text-link to larger images. |
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03/15/2010 07:38:54 PM · #36 |
Matt thanks for starting this. I drool over your sports shots!! So this is very helpful to me as baseball season is here! and I love shooting the kids baseball games.
Message edited by author 2010-03-15 19:39:02.
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03/15/2010 07:54:32 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Sirashley:
Well, I'll throw in what little sports advice I know... I read an article awhile back from a former Sports Illustrated photographer who said that the biggest mistake that amateur photographers make when shooting sports is that they rely on the burst mode. He claimed the best way to get really good sports shots, was to wait for the perfect moment, and snap a single frame. He argued that while this does take allot of practice, when you get good at it, you will always be able to capture the exact moment. So, when I went to Dolphin's training camp last year, I tried doing just that... Firing a single frame, trying to capture the exact moment, and I really liked my results... Now... More importantly, bear in mind I was shooting with my old Sony a200, a $130.00 Sigma 70-300mm lense, I was 10 rows back and hand-holding..... Just my two cents...
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While I'm not one to disagree with anyone, shoot how you feel works best for you. I shoot small bursts when not using strobes. When using strobes indoors I do use the one shot and try to time it, as you have to wait for the strobes to recharge. You have more chance of being early or late using this method. I prefer to shoot a 3-4 frame burst, and sometimes shooting through the play will get you some amazing photos as well. A good photographer friend of mine named  Skip once told me that. :D
Matt |
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03/15/2010 07:59:04 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I think this may be the most important advice of all. I haven't shot much sports action (except for some martial arts) close-up, but I try to "practice" the appropriate technique at every sporting event I attend, even if I'm way off in the stands somewhere ...
Another trick is to try to keep both eyes open at the same time, maintaining framing in the viewfinder through the right-eye, while monitoring the progress of the action with the left eye. Have the shutter-button half-depressed (to lock exposure and focus, if necessary), and hope your reflexes are good. |
Another thing to keep in mind while keeping the other eye open..........I do shoot with both eyes open most of the time but it has nothing to do with monitoring the play I'm shooting through the lens.
The most important thing I can tell you while shooting sports is this.....keep your other eye open and your head on a swivel! Not to get the shot you want, but to keep yourself and the players safe. Batted balls, thrown balls, running players, and other items hurt when they hit or land on you. If you think sports are dangerous to play, they are even more dangerous to shoot. Essentially because many will take their attention off the game and only concentrate on the shot......resulting in painful reminders that was the wrong thing to do.
Matt |
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03/15/2010 08:06:10 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by pineapple:
Nice thread and the info here is also applicable to all sorts of events in those often dark auditorium situations: dance, plays / dress rehearsals, for instance.
I have a question, related to gear. You said above that you would not comment on gear. I wonder if you might do so on this point though. I find that there is a lot of info on cameras, lenses, lights, and the use thereof on the Internet. But I have not yet found a good general "grip" site. There are lots of superclamps, C-clamps, Justin clamps, magic arms....... and all sorts of great hardware which can be used to attach strobes, cameras, reflectors to things. But I find it difficult to understand what each can do.
For instance, I want a clamp which I can use to attach strobes to a 4 inch pipe. Superclamps are OK for attaching cameras and strobes to small 2 inch pipes but do not work on larger pipes. Do you know of something that might work for this application? What do you use to attach strobes to in a basketball court?
Thanks... |
When I use strobes at a basketball game I generally do it strobist style. I use these with an adapter and a safety cable and use three 580EXII's. When I do use my AB800's I use the same clamp and stud. I have never ran into a need for a 4 inch clamp. But will look and see what I can find. my remote cameras are held up with a Magic arm and superclamp as well.
Matt |
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03/15/2010 08:38:02 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I think this may be the most important advice of all. I haven't shot much sports action (except for some martial arts) close-up, but I try to "practice" the appropriate technique at every sporting event I attend, even if I'm way off in the stands somewhere ...
Another trick is to try to keep both eyes open at the same time, maintaining framing in the viewfinder through the right-eye, while monitoring the progress of the action with the left eye. Have the shutter-button half-depressed (to lock exposure and focus, if necessary), and hope your reflexes are good. |
Another thing to keep in mind while keeping the other eye open..........I do shoot with both eyes open most of the time but it has nothing to do with monitoring the play I'm shooting through the lens.
The most important thing I can tell you while shooting sports is this.....keep your other eye open and your head on a swivel! Not to get the shot you want, but to keep yourself and the players safe. Batted balls, thrown balls, running players, and other items hurt when they hit or land on you. If you think sports are dangerous to play, they are even more dangerous to shoot. Essentially because many will take their attention off the game and only concentrate on the shot......resulting in painful reminders that was the wrong thing to do.
Matt |
Well I do have to admit that shooting with burst is how I managed to capture this:  Although it's not a "sports" shot perse Native Dancing, especially grass, fancy and fancy shawl has lots of action and movement.
Message edited by author 2010-03-15 20:38:19. |
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03/15/2010 10:16:08 PM · #41 |
Matt - Thanks for the advice on the grip. I have the superclamps and they are just fine for most things but I am working an auditorium which has only a couple of 4 inch pipe gantry supports for stage tungsten lights... I will find a way. Great thread BTW.
Message edited by author 2010-03-15 22:16:19. |
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03/15/2010 10:36:36 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by Sirashley:
Well, I'll throw in what little sports advice I know... I read an article awhile back from a former Sports Illustrated photographer who said that the biggest mistake that amateur photographers make when shooting sports is that they rely on the burst mode. He claimed the best way to get really good sports shots, was to wait for the perfect moment, and snap a single frame. He argued that while this does take allot of practice, when you get good at it, you will always be able to capture the exact moment. So, when I went to Dolphin's training camp last year, I tried doing just that... Firing a single frame, trying to capture the exact moment, and I really liked my results... Now... More importantly, bear in mind I was shooting with my old Sony a200, a $130.00 Sigma 70-300mm lense, I was 10 rows back and hand-holding..... Just my two cents...
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While I'm not one to disagree with anyone, shoot how you feel works best for you. I shoot small bursts when not using strobes. When using strobes indoors I do use the one shot and try to time it, as you have to wait for the strobes to recharge. You have more chance of being early or late using this method. I prefer to shoot a 3-4 frame burst, and sometimes shooting through the play will get you some amazing photos as well. A good photographer friend of mine named Skip once told me that. :D
Matt |
Matt just to clarify on my first post, I should have added that I didn't mean never use burst, but use it when necessary... Take for instance, if you were at an actual NFL game on the sidelines... and you were photographing the Wide Receivers, you would want to use burst mode because after the receiver catches the ball, he may fumble, he may be hit, or he may bobble the ball around and make an amazing catch... Burst mode will give you the best chance of capturing that... BUT... When I was at training camp, they were running single action drills. Throwing a ball to a receiver, or hitting the pads... In this case, not using burst worked the best because it allowed me to get the ball on the receivers hands, and capture expressions as the players hit the pads... Take a baseball game, if you want to catch the batter connecting with the baseball, you have the best chance of doing that firing single frames, but if you want to capture the batter connecting, swinging through, and emotion after the shot, burst works best... Overall, I think you already mentioned it, but the best way to get good sport shots is to know your sport, and know the shot that you want... This will help you decide which way to attack your shot...
Oh and you guys are spot on about keeping two eyes open... Good stuff!
Message edited by author 2010-03-15 22:40:36. |
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03/16/2010 06:56:21 AM · #43 |
Many thanks for all this great information.
Matt, do you have your camera set up so that one button focuses and the other button activates the shutter? I have tried to do this without success, but am going to give it another go this weekend. I don't think I have the correct custom functions set for the buttons I am trying to use. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. |
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03/16/2010 07:38:51 AM · #44 |
Just wanted to say thanks for this awesome thread  MattO I have only shot a few sporting shots and many of them arent all that great! lol. Mine are mainly motorsports, not sure if you count that as a sport in the context of this thread, and a few hockey games (field) one of which you did make some helpful comments on.
Anyway I will be watching this & hopefully learning a lot from you. Thanks again |
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03/16/2010 10:32:43 AM · #45 |
great thread, matt!
i would like to throw in a few comments about equipment:
1) while it's true that if you really want to shoot sports, you gotta have the equipment, it's more important to learn how to use the equipment you have first. in fact, if you start out shooting with low-end equipment, you're much more likely to learn the sports you're shooting because you have no choice but to learn how to anticipate. learn how to get the most out of your equipment and then you'll be in a better position to prioritize your purchases as you start upgrading.
2) when i started getting serious about shooting sports, i got some great advice equipment advice from jason: save your money until you can buy the best glass. rather than put money into long, slow glass and have it not be worth anything when you're ready to upgrade, just save until you can get the real thing. you're better off with better glass on a low-end body than with slow glass on a high-end body. he also stressed collecting glass from the same manufacturer, if only that all the rings would be in the same place, turning the same way; otherwise, you might risk turning the focus ring when you mean to be zooming in, and consequently miss a moment.
3) as to what glass to carry and when to buy it, it's all a matter of what you are going to be shooting primarily. if you don't already have a wide, medium, and long lens and you can't afford to get them all at once, prioritize according to need. personally, i'd go with a long lens first (7o-200), then the wide (16-35), then the medium (24-70). after those three, i'd probably go for a second body. next, i'd go really long (300), then really wide (15). it might take a few years, but as long as you're shooting, you'll be better prepared to take advantage of what your upgrades can do for you.
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03/16/2010 04:18:33 PM · #46 |
How about a critique on this 
(I just noticed on the other side of the field is the photographer for the other team, or the newpaper. I reckon that I'm in their shot! lol)
Message edited by author 2010-03-16 16:19:25. |
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03/16/2010 08:17:42 PM · #47 |
Here's a Q about using strobes (like Canon 580EX and Nikon SB800s which I use) to light sports courts etc.
One can get pretty trigger happy shooting sports in the understanding that there are going to be fewer good shots to keep at the end of the event. But, if you're using strobes to light the court (basketball or whatever), batteries get to run down pretty quick and strobes overheat too.
In such a situation, do you (a) use external battery packs on all the strobes (like the CP-E4 for Canon or the Quantum Turbo)? (b) Do you set the strobes to shoot at 1/2 power in order to get quicker recycling and longer lasting battery life?
What other tips have you in this area. (This also applies to events such as award ceremonies, dance dress rehearsals, and etc in auditoriums)... |
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03/16/2010 08:57:02 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by pineapple:
Here's a Q about using strobes (like Canon 580EX and Nikon SB800s which I use) to light sports courts etc.
One can get pretty trigger happy shooting sports in the understanding that there are going to be fewer good shots to keep at the end of the event. But, if you're using strobes to light the court (basketball or whatever), batteries get to run down pretty quick and strobes overheat too.
In such a situation, do you (a) use external battery packs on all the strobes (like the CP-E4 for Canon or the Quantum Turbo)? (b) Do you set the strobes to shoot at 1/2 power in order to get quicker recycling and longer lasting battery life?
What other tips have you in this area. (This also applies to events such as award ceremonies, dance dress rehearsals, and etc in auditoriums)... |
When I use speed lights to light a gym, I'm only lighting the half that I'm using. Sometimes I bounce, other times direct or a combination of the two. Which I will explain later. My 580EXII's are very good on battery power and recycle fast. I use 2500mAH energizer batteries in all of them. I also use 8 in a CPE3(older version of the CP-E4) on one of them and I'll explain why.
I set up to cover one end of the court, usually the offensive side of the court for the team I am covering with two up high and bounce with the white card up to direct a bit of light directly to the court as well. This will give me this result  in a gym where the ambient gives me  .
In the larger gym I use two flashes on 1/4 power direct but they are way up high above the court on a balcony. and then at one end I set up the third light at 1/2 power with the CPE3 attached to it bounced with the white card up. That gives me  .
That photo was taken near the end of two back to back HS basketball games where I took 142 photos combined between the two games. I don't fire my strobes continuously, I shoot as needed, but do occasionally fire 3 photos in 5 seconds at max(just my style). With good batteries I never lose recycle time or power for 2-3 games. I can easily fire 250 or more shots before I notice a slow down in recycle time. When I use actual strobes My AB800's recycle super fast and are fan cooled so no issues with overheating. Again I only light the half of the court I am shooting.
Hopefully I answered your questions.
Matt |
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03/16/2010 09:38:12 PM · #49 |
Hey Matt- since you mention using the AB800's...
I asked elsewhere what people's experiences were with burst sequences and AB800's. Are you using AC power or a Vagabond? If Vagabond, how many AB's on each unit?
What sort of frame rate can you achieve? I'm interested specifically in constructing sequence shots, it's not for a machine gun approach, so I'd be able to let things cool down and recharge a bit after each sequence. |
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03/16/2010 09:42:05 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:
Hey Matt- since you mention using the AB800's...
I asked elsewhere what people's experiences were with burst sequences and AB800's. Are you using AC power or a Vagabond? If Vagabond, how many AB's on each unit?
What sort of frame rate can you achieve? I'm interested specifically in constructing sequence shots, it's not for a machine gun approach, so I'd be able to let things cool down and recharge a bit after each sequence. |
You can not use burst and any strobes that I'm aware of. Recycle time is about a second and a half from full power. I use AC power for my strobes. When I go on location with no power I use my 580EXII's.
Matt |
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