So you want to shoot sports? - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

03/18/2010 08:33:43 PM · #76

Originally posted by Skip:

Originally posted by jminso:
Right now the 2.8L IS is not an option.

this is exactly what i mentioned earlier in the advice i was given starting out. you're better off saving until you can get exactly what you need glass-wise rather than trying to make do with lesser glass. you would be better off periodically renting than sinking your money into f/4 glass. if you want to seriously shoot sports, you really do need a 70-200 f/2.8 IS or VR. keep your eye open at KEH for excellent used equipment.

to get a better idea as to what i'm talking about, check out the wholesale purchase prices being offered by places like KEH and other used equipment buyers. it's incredibly hard to get your money back out of used equipment when you want to upgrade...that's why i'm such a proponent of buying it right the first time and then holding it forever.

The money isn't the only thing, I could easily get the IS version of the 2.8 but I just don't see where the extra $500 is worthit for sports, since it is shot at higher shutter speeds. If I was doing indoor weddings or events where I would be using lower shutter speeds I would go IS hands down, I just don't see it being worth it for action sports. I may be way off in my thinking and if I am please let me know.

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

03/18/2010 09:20:47 PM · #77

Originally posted by jminso:

Originally posted by Skip:

Originally posted by jminso:
Right now the 2.8L IS is not an option.

this is exactly what i mentioned earlier in the advice i was given starting out. you're better off saving until you can get exactly what you need glass-wise rather than trying to make do with lesser glass. you would be better off periodically renting than sinking your money into f/4 glass. if you want to seriously shoot sports, you really do need a 70-200 f/2.8 IS or VR. keep your eye open at KEH for excellent used equipment.

to get a better idea as to what i'm talking about, check out the wholesale purchase prices being offered by places like KEH and other used equipment buyers. it's incredibly hard to get your money back out of used equipment when you want to upgrade...that's why i'm such a proponent of buying it right the first time and then holding it forever.

The money isn't the only thing, I could easily get the IS version of the 2.8 but I just don't see where the extra $500 is worthit for sports, since it is shot at higher shutter speeds. If I was doing indoor weddings or events where I would be using lower shutter speeds I would go IS hands down, I just don't see it being worth it for action sports. I may be way off in my thinking and if I am please let me know.

if all you're ever going to shoot is outdoors in nice sunlight, you'll probably be fine. shooting indoors, in gyms where you aren't strobing, in aquatics centers, etc, you're not going necessarily be getting those high shutters speeds. i routinely find myself shooting stuff between 1/160 and 1/200.

i know you say you're primarily interested in baseball and soccer, but you need to consider a couple things: 1) those sports are played as much under the lights are they are played in the daytime, and 2) you might be able to recoup your expenses by shooting sports year-round, rather than just focusing on a couple sports.

who knows? you might be just fine with the f/4 or the non-IS. on the other hand, if you work the business side of things the right way, the $500 difference could be made up in one weekend, AND you'll have a piece of equipment that you won't regret.

ETA: i guess it's just me, but when i'm shooting sports, any sports, the 'action' is only part of what i shoot. i spend a lot of time looking for feature images, candid moments, off-field portraits, etc, and given that lighting is hardly ever optimal, the IS has made a huge difference to me. but, then again, it might just be me and what i do...YMMV ;-)

Message edited by author 2010-03-19 06:36:17.

Luci11e

Nikon D40

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G IF-ED VR

03/19/2010 06:36:05 AM · #78

would like a critique on this

the kid in the red head gear is my team

Canon EF-M 22mm f/2.0 STM Lens

03/19/2010 06:25:57 PM · #79

Have you done any cycling sports? I have a coworker that does road races and I would like to try and shoot a few local ones here. I imagine panning is essential for this sport. Any tips or thoughts on this?

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

03/19/2010 08:13:15 PM · #80

Unless you're in a pace vehicle hanging out the rear window (which is fun BTW, just don't drop a lens or camera), shooting road races is pretty dull stuff...at least it's very difficult to get any kind of comprehensive picture of the race that way.

Now, if you are shooting a criterium, those are fun because the course is usually pretty small, so you can walk around to different vantage points, get low in the corners and shoot the cyclists whizzing and still catch the start and finish of the race. You do need to have some knowledge of racing so you'll know where the action will be, aside from the sprint to the finish. (A hint, it's easier to shoot from the inside of the course loop.) You can usually cross, but you don't want to piss off the course marshalls...or worse, get clobbered by one of the racers.

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

03/20/2010 12:11:44 AM · #81

Originally posted by jminso:

I have done them for hire only, so none to share as they owned copyright to them. There are a lot of interesting things you can do as long as you have access to a car to move, or as was suggested have access to a chase vehicle. Street racing I like to find a corner, real wide angle, second curtain flash and pan them. Long straight stretches I like to shoot with the 300 with or without a TC and isolate the individual bikers. The hardest thing in planning things out ahead of time and actually sticking with and making your plan work. Bigger events will have a day for the bikers to learn the course, that is your day to do the same.

Matt

EstimatedEyes

Fujifilm GFX 50R

Fujifilm GF 45mm f/2.8

03/20/2010 01:22:26 PM · #82

Another Q -- what are your thoughts on autofocus? I've shot some sports outdoors and missed shots while the AF tried to catch up with the action. So do you guys leave the AF on or off and just try to set MF to where you expect the action to occur, then fine adjust by hand if you can while shooting. I've gone both ways and not sure which is better.

I've been volunteered to shoot a 5K/10K run tomorrow (benefit for the local educational foundation) ... did it last year on my own and they liked what I did (and the price ... free) so ditched the "professional" for this year's event. They've now got about two to three times as many sign ups as they expected (probably over 1000 runners will show) ... so any tips you all have for catching the action will be much appreciated.

Tez

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

03/20/2010 03:15:20 PM · #83

back button focus is the way forward when shooting sports. With a Canon system, this is the only way I focus now for everything - sports, political rallies, weddings, everything. It frees up the index finger for accurate timing instead of half-pressing and waiting.

I'm not sure if you have this on a Pentax. Otherwise, I shoot in Servo mode and follow the action with the central point, it's easier focusing on something traveling parallel that something traveling straight at the camera.

ETA: It really sucks you've screwed another guy out of the job by doing it for free.

Message edited by author 2010-03-20 15:16:06.

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

03/20/2010 04:07:43 PM · #84

Originally posted by Tez:

back button focus is the way forward .............................
ETA: It really sucks you've screwed another guy out of the job by doing it for free.

Hey wow, I just tried this, and I think I like using the rear focus button, hadn't really ever thought of doing it this way, but it's good, real good..

As per the ETA: bit... I feel a need to speak up a bit on both sides of the fence here, as I do think that charities should receive charitable assistance, however I'm also a capitalist, so I can clearly appreciate how much the person that was let go must dislike EstimatedEyes because of this. Sigh, it's a shame that even when we're trying to do the right thing we can be so inadvertently wrong.

Let's just hope that the real reason EstimatedEyes was chosen is more photographic than economic in nature...

EstimatedEyes

Fujifilm GFX 50R

Fujifilm GF 45mm f/2.8

03/20/2010 04:23:46 PM · #85

Originally posted by Tez:

ETA: It really sucks you've screwed another guy out of the job by doing it for free.

Whatever. Its for charity. And they asked me because they liked what I did last year ... not because I did it for free. Would you have felt better if I charged them?

fwiw, the guy that did it last year wasn't available this year, so they asked me before they contacted some "professonals" (i.e., wedding fotogs) to see if they'd do it. If I "screwed" anyone it was some wedding fotog who never knew the gig was available ... and who was not a professional sports fotog in any event. bfd.

thanks for the back button advice though. I'll check it out.

Message edited by author 2010-03-20 16:38:35.

03/20/2010 04:54:42 PM · #86

Originally posted by EstimatedEyes:

I'm going to address the AF first. Al-servo or continuous focus mode is always best for sports. AF is very depending on the AF detect system in the camera and the focus speed of the lens. Some systems and lens work better then others. You will have to determine what works best for your system to decide if prefocusing on a spot works best or following the action with continuous focus mode.

On the other point you made, after reading the other responses my first gut reaction to your post is this practice is very bad for the industry. I won't say don't ever give away your work, there are times that giving something away will bring back more then a sale would. However you should never put zero value on your work, time, and wear and tear on equipment. When asked by a charitable organization, you should find a way to make your work a donation that is tax deductible, submit a bill with a value on it and they can give you a receipt for tax purposes. Otherwise you are cheapening the integrity of the system and hurting working professoinals(who by the way you are asking for advice here).

On tips on shooting, know the course find spots you can get to and from quickly and cover multiple spots as the runners pass. Find a spot to shoot from the start, find a spot for the middle and find a spot where you can shoot close to the finish. Find a way to get around from spot to spot quickly. And shoot a lot. One photographer for 1000 runners is way under staffing an event, but then I assume they are getting what they are paying for.

Matt

I do not want this thread to dwindle into an argument based thread. From this point out please no further discussions on the matter of shooting for free vs. getting paid, lets please leave it to the actual art of shooting sports.

03/21/2010 07:20:15 PM · #87

Raw or Jpeg?

I have recently switched over to shooting in raw for my hobby; However, if when I start shooting sports as a serious business I am wondering if I should switch back to jpeg? I will be able to shoot more photos on my card and I imagine the post processing would be quicker. What is your opinion and what format do you shoot in for your sporting events?

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

03/21/2010 07:31:14 PM · #88

Originally posted by jminso:

I shoot in jpeg for nearly all of my sporting events, Team and individual I will shoot in raw and I also will shoot some feature shots in raw, but for sports the buffer and amount of photos I sometimes shoot Raw will slow the camera down. I prefer to not have to deal with the file size of raw and the time it takes to download, process and convert. I work for a weekly, not a daily so most of the time I have the time that I could, however I strive to get it right in camera to limit processing. It's not always possible to get it right in camera but I sure strive to.

Matt

Yo_Spiff

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

03/21/2010 07:40:16 PM · #89

I just acquired an appreciation for the difficulty of sports shooting this afternoon. Indoor basketball game in an elementary school gym. Lighting was uneven from one side to the next, plus the bright light coming in the high gym windows would mess with the autoexposure. No two shots were the same. An overcast day or night might have worked better. I eventually decided that manual mode would give me the most consistent results. I still had to use a very high ISO. Once I sort through the junk, I may have some decent snapshots, but probably nothing challenge worthy.

03/21/2010 07:48:29 PM · #90

OK so this week I go back to shooting sports live action. I've got a track and field event tomorrow, Soccer game on Tuesday afternoon, Thursday another Jr. High Track meet, and Friday another Varsity track meet. Are there any questions you would like samples on from the events I'm shooting this week?

Matt

03/21/2010 07:50:02 PM · #91

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

The last thing that school administrators at any level are concerned with is the lighting in their gyms. As you go down the ladder from High school, middle school, and then elementary school it generally gets worse. This is where your strobing would have come in handy to overcome the issues you were dealing with.

Matt

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

03/22/2010 09:44:53 PM · #92

OK so today while shooting a track and field event I wanted to do a little something to add to the thread. So I took a long lens and a short lens. Extremes of both and made some captures to show the difference between some angles and the DOF and how they relate to what you want out of your shots when shooting sports. I really did go to extremes on the lens. 300F2.8 and the 16-35F2.8. I shot with the 1DMKIII and the 16-35 vs. the 1DMKIV and the 300F2.8. both used nearly identical settings and here are some comparison images. You can see the difference in how the images appear, and the type of results that come from long glass and short glass.

Matt

Message edited by author 2010-03-22 21:46:28.

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

03/22/2010 11:25:43 PM · #93

Originally posted by MattO:

sometimes, it's just a simple matter of maintenance. there's a 4-yr-old, $92M hs here that looks more like a community college than a hs. i shot in their gym shortly after they opened, and was blown away by the light. three years later, i could barely see across the gym. two months later, it was back to bright as daylight. i asked the AD how much all the new bulbs set him back. he said they didn't replace any bulbs...they just dusted the glass covers for the first time!

03/23/2010 12:22:38 AM · #94

Originally posted by Skip:

Originally posted by MattO:
The last thing that school administrators at any level are concerned with is the lighting in their gyms. As you go down the ladder from High school, middle school, and then elementary school it generally gets worse. This is where your strobing would have come in handy to overcome the issues you were dealing with.

sometimes, it's just a simple matter of maintenance. there's a 4-yr-old, $92M hs here that looks more like a community college than a hs. i shot in their gym shortly after they opened, and was blown away by the light. three years later, i could barely see across the gym. two months later, it was back to bright as daylight. i asked the AD how much all the new bulbs set him back. he said they didn't replace any bulbs...they just dusted the glass covers for the first time!

Very true Skip, replacing lights must also be a PITA for them........even at the newest gyms when the lights go out they don't immediately replace them, which makes fun to keep up with the dark spots on the floor.

Matt

03/23/2010 07:06:32 AM · #95

Great shots Matt. Interesting to see how the look and feel of those similar shots change from going from a zoom to a wide angle.

Another question. MMA. Have you ever shot any MMA stuff? Whether just sparring or actual events? What type of lens woould you suggest? I imagine a wide angle would work if you were shooting right at the ring but I am thinking a zoom from the stands, so you could get slightly above or just level with the action would work well also. I imagine this would be similar to shooting boxing, at least as far as the lights and all go. So what do you think?

03/25/2010 12:00:40 AM · #96

Just a quick bump. Going to add more to this later this week when I catch up on some work. But wanted to keep it on the front.

Matt

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

03/25/2010 08:23:33 PM · #97

One thing to consider when shooting sports is your angle. I see too many photographers standing straight up shooting with their monopods way up in the air. When your subjects are smaller then you it doesn't do them justice. I prefer to go ATG which is my way of saying put your tush in the turf. Get low and shoot.

The other thing is always be prepared for the action to happen quickly. I was shooting up field with my long lens when suddenly a pass to the corner and a quick kick into the crease. I grabbed the second body equipped with the 70-200 and shot this header goal sequence.

The main thing I try to do with field sports is be patient and let the action come to me, never shoot further down field then your focal length will allow, don't continually move and try to stay with the action. Pick a spot and shoot it. I never move more then 3 times total in a full game. Get low remember to be prepared for anything.

Matt

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

03/25/2010 08:31:47 PM · #98

Do you remain in one spot for football?

03/25/2010 08:37:36 PM · #99

Originally posted by karmat:

Do you remain in one spot for football?

I'm glad you ask, Football is the one sport where I make an exception to my rule of staying put. I stay 15-20 yards ahead of the line of scrimmage, or I stay 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage on the offensive side to shoot defenders rushing the QB or the QB passing. I walk up and down the sideline with the play. When the offense reaches the 30 yard line I go to the end zone and shoot from there to get the players coming head on to me. I would have to pull some stuff from the archives to give examples, so I will this weekend.

Matt