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06/01/2004 11:39:05 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Comments are more useful to the person who makes them than those who get them I think.
But only if you put effort in to commenting on what you see, how it works or doesn't work for you and how you'd like to see it improved - this is more of a learning experience about what the commentor likes than about the picture being commented upon. |
I think this a very good point, to a degree. I haven't found most comments I've received to be particulalrly useful, either because they are very vague --- my favorite was "9"-- or I just don't agree with the opinion. There have been a few I've found useful though.
What I really find useful is looking at the photos of others and thinking about them long enough to formulate thoughts on what works or what doesn't. This gets us thinking about our work and hopefully that thought process will become a habit.
So leave thoughtful critiques. It's for your own good! |
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06/01/2004 12:32:15 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by bill_hk2002:
Gordon:
With respect, I disagree. Once you have mastered this craft, I think you might be right. But, for the vast majority of us that are just learning, all feedback is useful feedback.
I also agree with much of the idea behind this thread: well formed comments are more appreciated than quick comments. But, any well intentioned comment is better than no comment.
Best, |
Actually, I'd argue that making good comments is more useful when you are learning than when you've 'mastered' the craft or art. The real thing you need to learn is how to see, and you learn that by practice. You don't have to practice on your own pictures and in fact, looking deeply and thoughtfully at someone elses pictures, that you typically aren't emotionally involved in, is one of the most effective ways to get better.
I'd agree that if you leave comments along the lines of 'nice' or '9' or 'lol, that's funny' then you won't learn a whole lot, but careful, directed and thoughtful study of what works and doesn't work (in your own opinion) is a great way to learn. Most comments are just opinions anyway - you might learn what someone else likes or doesn't like - but that doesn't help you decide what you like, what works for you, or what you'd like to pay more attention to in your own shooting.
So I'd say the opposite to you - those with the most to learn from commenting are the least experienced - who often can't divorce themselves from the pictures they've taken to see what's bad about them, but can recognise it quite quickly in other people's pictures.
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06/01/2004 01:43:07 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
...I'd argue that making good comments is more useful when you are learning than when you've 'mastered' the craft or art. The real thing you need to learn is how to see, and you learn that by practice. You don't have to practice on your own pictures and in fact, looking deeply and thoughtfully at someone elses pictures, that you typically aren't emotionally involved in, is one of the most effective ways to get better.
I'd agree that if you leave comments along the lines of 'nice' or '9' or 'lol, that's funny' then you won't learn a whole lot, but careful, directed and thoughtful study of what works and doesn't work (in your own opinion) is a great way to learn. Most comments are just opinions anyway - you might learn what someone else likes or doesn't like - but that doesn't help you decide what you like, what works for you, or what you'd like to pay more attention to in your own shooting.
So I'd say the opposite to you - those with the most to learn from commenting are the least experienced - who often can't divorce themselves from the pictures they've taken to see what's bad about them, but can recognise it quite quickly in other people's pictures. |
Lucid, sharp post...
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06/01/2004 03:45:43 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Comments are more useful to the person who makes them than those who get them I think.
But only if you put effort in to commenting on what you see, how it works or doesn't work for you and how you'd like to see it improved - this is more of a learning experience about what the commentor likes than about the picture being commented upon. |
That is a very good way to look at it Gordon. I find that the more I comment on what it is I like about a picture the more I "see" in other photos. I also learn not so much from my own comments or votes but from the comments of others. IMO this is where the real education comes in. Assuming you can learn from some, and gloss over others. Insightful comments are not helpful only to the photographer but to all that see the comments made.
Thank you to all in this forum for helping me formulate my position. text |
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06/01/2004 04:17:01 PM · #30 |
this is a very interesting thread. i find as a newcomer that the comments are useful in both directions. i almost always note comments as useful but especially like the ones that provide a reason.
i was curious to notice that in the comments of one photo i looked at after a challenge that all the comments made that said "like it" or were positive were noted as "useful" and any that provided critique were not. i found this somewhat discouraging and i recognize that it is not the usual practice but was a bit dismayed that someone would not appreciate the effort of a commenter in making suggestions for improvement.
when i comment i try always to give a reason for commenting--either a critique or a feature that is particularly effective... but i don't typically include the score i gave because sometimes although the comment may be overall positive, the gut level "like it/don't like it" sense will influence my score in ways that are entirely personal. the shots i have the most trouble commenting on are those that i just don't like.
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06/01/2004 04:30:05 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by daisy77:
... but i don't typically include the score i gave because sometimes although the comment may be overall positive, the gut level "like it/don't like it" sense will influence my score in ways that are entirely personal. |
I don't normally put a score in comments either. I usually make several passes at scores - right up until closing sometimes. I quite often tweak a score up or down and don't want the comments to disagree.
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06/01/2004 04:39:47 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by daisy77:
...i almost always note comments as useful but especially like the ones that provide a reason...
i was curious to notice that in the comments of one photo i looked at after a challenge that all the comments made that said "like it" or were positive were noted as "useful" and any that provided critique were not.... |
Yes, a critical comment is, IMO, useful indeed when the points it makes are substantiated.
The scenario you paint in your second paragraph may, at least in part, be due to the fact that the suggestion(s) made have already been considered and discarded by the photographer as inappropiate or undesirable for the purpose.
Message edited by author 2004-06-01 17:05:36.
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06/01/2004 04:56:20 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by stdavidson:
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I agree that the rating number is the most important comment on your work. It gives you a good idea how your image will be liked by a general audience. The difference between an 8 and a 10 probably is more toward the personal taste of the voter rather than any photographic quality of the image for which a suggested improvement could be made...
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The rating number is the most important comment for understanding what the general dpc viewer likes, but it is not the most important input for improving your photography. Great art and popular art can be two very different things.
A quality comment from a dpc photographer that I respect is the best input that I could imagine.
Edit: Snipped out much of the original post so you could actually find my comment.
Message edited by author 2004-06-01 16:58:55.
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