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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> What's Your Impression of Your Score?
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 11/08/2016 06:30:38 PM · #26
For my entry, I chose a subject that would lend itself to Impressionism. There is nothing in the rules that say the look must be achieved in camera, so I do not appreciate a 1 because I used a filter. However, it is within everyone's rights to decide how to vote, so although not "illegal", maybe not in the spirit of the site.
 11/08/2016 06:32:01 PM · #27
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Neat:
The challenge description should've stated NO filters what so ever! Then I would've tried to emulate an impressionistic photo in camera.


I tried that exact thing for Impressionism II & still got a low score! No filters=bad. Filters =bad. And yet somehow I still live.
11/08/2016 06:38:59 PM · #28
Originally posted by riot:
I've had enough. Just like the tilt shift embarassment, this contest should have been about photographic techniques, but for a large number of entrants has obviously become entirely about slapping on a crap photoshop filter instead. We all know that in previous standard rules, creating elements in photoshop and moving things around with such a filter would never have been allowed. Now it's used as a crutch in place of photographic creativity. Incidentally, it wouldn't surprise me if these are the same people who keep crying out against minimal challenges, saying "oh but you can enter with minimal editing in every challenge!".

theicequeen above is obviously being polite, but you are clearly alienating (preciously rare) new blood by shifting the goalposts and redefining what classic photographic techniques are really about, to allow cheap photoshop shams instead.

It's pathetic, and my sympathy for the degenerate state of this site has run out.

I want DPC to be a photography challenge site. I joined this as a photography challenge site, I've been supporting it as a photography challenge site by paying my membership fee for twelve years and so I damn well have a right to have a say in that. I'm not going to storm off and leave the site - but I'm going to vote accordingly, and from now on pure-photoshop garbage will be punished severely. And I doubt I'm the only one who feels this way about the site's direction - so I encourage anyone else who wants DPC to still be a photography challenge site to vote likewise.

If the site council really want to run the contests this way, then rename the site PhotoshopChallenge and be done with it. Meanwhile, this is my public protest.


You just left me a comment and gave me a low score for using a filter. I did not use a filter of any kind. I added a very small amount of increase contrast, otherwise it could have been entered in a minimal editing challenge. Maybe you can't always tell how an image was made?

Message edited by author 2016-11-08 19:07:43.
 11/08/2016 07:30:10 PM · #29
Originally posted by mefnj:
it was NOT a "crappy Photoshop filter", as i do not use, nor even own, PS. it was the combination of multiple adjustments and filters, using multiple programs, and took multiple tries to get to what i felt represented the "impressionist" look. so you apparently cannot even tell what a "crappy Photoshop filter" looks like.

There's always one pedant, isn't there? You know full well I was not referring in the specific to Adobe Systems Incorporated Adobe Photoshop CC (14.0) or some other triviality, but using the universally accepted colloquialism of photoshop as shorthand for advanced image postprocessing software in general. If I asked you to "hoover your room", would you also whine for a paragraph about how you don't even own a Hoover, but a Dyson, to try to invalidate my point?

Originally posted by Neat:
The challenge description should've stated NO filters what so ever!

I agree with you. The rules used to state that you cannot add elements in postprocessing. I am protesting the apparent stealth-abolition of this rule.

Originally posted by Neat:
Then I would've tried to emulate an impressionistic photo in camera.

Great idea. For a photo contest, it didn't occur to you until you had my vote to actually take your photograph to the contest brief?

Originally posted by Neat:
But slapping ones on photos that used filters is completely unfair,

No, it is perfectly fair. You enter what you like, I vote how I like. And here I am explaining my rationale fairly and publically, and applying a perfectly fair and transparent system to my voting. I, and others, will continue vote this way in future - so if you take this into account in your future entries, perhaps we can rescue DPC from turning into a pure postprocessing contest site.
Originally posted by Neat:
and not mention arrogant,

If you consider someone else having a negative opinion of your work, that you put up to be judged on a public site, as arrogant, then perhaps it is you who is arrogant for considering your work to be beyond reproach by default.
Originally posted by Neat:
plus also uses an element of assumption also!

Not at all; I am judging each image by the elements I'm seeing. If I see a load of swirly fake brushstrokes, I judge it on that. I'm not voting something low because I think it may be photoshopped, I'm voting something low because what's been done to it on one digital level or another is the primary element that carries the image; the primary element cannot be ignored.

Originally posted by 2mccs:
You just left me a comment and gave me a low score for using a filter. I did not use a filter of any kind. I added a very small amount of increase contrast, otherwise it could have been entered in a minimal editing challenge. Maybe you can't always tell how an image was made?
d
I don't want to publically discuss individual photos while the contest is in voting, and I don't know which image is yours, but if you PM me identifying it I can explain to you privately in more detail why I voted how I did on that specific image. However, I can promise you I didn't vote below a 5 on any image in this contest that was not visibly relying on a postprocessing effect to allow it to be shoehorned into this challenge.
 11/08/2016 07:58:40 PM · #30


Originally posted by 2mccs:
You just left me a comment and gave me a low score for using a filter. I did not use a filter of any kind. I added a very small amount of increase contrast, otherwise it could have been entered in a minimal editing challenge. Maybe you can't always tell how an image was made?
d
Originally posted by riot:
I don't want to publically discuss individual photos while the contest is in voting, and I don't know which image is yours, but if you PM me identifying it I can explain to you privately in more detail why I voted how I did on that specific image. However, I can promise you I didn't vote below a 5 on any image in this contest that was not visibly relying on a postprocessing effect to allow it to be shoehorned into this challenge.


I promise you that you did give an image a score of 2 and reprimand for using a photoshop filter when in fact no filter was used.

On your larger point, i would agree. I think the challenges that are meant to look like a painting style should be minimal. The fun is in getting the camera to yield the painterly results.
 11/08/2016 08:35:11 PM · #31
Originally posted by 2mccs:


I think the challenges that are meant to look like a painting style should be minimal. The fun is in getting the camera to yield the painterly results.


There is a lot of truth in the above as in this:

riot: Now (photoshop) it's used as a crutch in place of photographic creativity.

What's the use of a "product" (obviously not a photograph any longer) using wiggly filters to mimic a van Gogh for instance?
 11/08/2016 08:37:32 PM · #32
I think the tradition has been to vote on every entry AS IF it conformed to the guidelines.

If one's only reason for voting low is suspicion, that's pretty crappy; but if you don't LIKE stuff that looks like crappy PP that's your business.
 11/08/2016 08:52:17 PM · #33
Originally posted by riot:
I am protesting the apparent stealth-abolition of this rule.

We made an announcement several months ago, and the current (and past) rules are posted.
 11/08/2016 08:55:40 PM · #34
Originally posted by 2mccs:
I promise you that you did give an image a score of 2 and reprimand for using a photoshop filter when in fact no filter was used.

On your larger point, i would agree. I think the challenges that are meant to look like a painting style should be minimal. The fun is in getting the camera to yield the painterly results.


Then I apologise for my wording; I may have typed "filter" when I meant "postprocessing effect". I'll be happy to discuss your photo in detail after the contest once I know which is yours, so I can explain exactly what about it stood out to me as being primarily postprocessing-driven.

In any case, it's nothing personal, and I want to emphasise that many of the images I voted low in this contest are beautiful images in principle. They just do not deserve, in my opinion, to score well in a contest about a photographic technique. If I've lumped your entry in with those and your effect was produced purely photographically, I'll be very keen to see how, and I apologise in advance. But the vast majority of my low scores were awarded to entries of which the main focus was produced simply by pressing a button in photoshop, and dragging a couple of sliders - incidentally adding new visual elements in the process, which would not have been permissible under the old standard editing rulesets.
 11/08/2016 09:08:56 PM · #35
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by riot:
I am protesting the apparent stealth-abolition of this rule.

We made an announcement several months ago, and the current (and past) rules are posted.


Permit me, then, to quote from that post, emphasis mine:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

"Standard Editing" is what used to be "Advanced Editing". A significant change here is the removal of any trace of the "major element" rule. If it's in your picture and you don't want it there, then remove it! The only requirement is that what replaces the removed element must be what actually would be there in the element were not. If you remove a cow from a grassy field, you have to replace him with grass, etc etc. Note that this specifically will NOT allow you just to plant trees wherever you wish, or move elements around to suit, because every time you move something to a new place it's effectively removing something else, and the new thing wouldn't "belong" there.

I don't for a moment feel that a filter which explicitly drags around pixels in the image to produce swirly brushstrokes falls within the above category.


I'm not intending to single out any images in the current contest, but I'm sure even you will have difficulty justifying how the elements in these partial images don't constitute "moving something to a new place", and how every pixel "belongs" where it's been placed.

The new ruleset also does not state anything about being permitted to create new visual elements arbitrarily in your image, outside of expert editing, yet this has had a blind eye turned to it in this contest as well as others since the rule change. The party line is that an image has to be "within the spirit of the rules", but Bear's post that you link to strongly implies that anything that doesn't "belong" in the image is not allowed; that is what I, and others, take to be the spirit of the rules.

I'd also just like to emphasise that any low votes I have cast in this contest are based on my opinion of that photograph as it ought to score in this contest; not whether I feel it ought or ought not to be allowed, which is a different discussion.

Some of those photographs that I feel have gone outside the rules, or whatever now passes for the "spirit of the rules", of standard editing, have also been reported as such.
 11/08/2016 09:10:00 PM · #36
Guys, this is exactly what's not supposed to be going on in a score thread (or any thread) during a competition.
 11/08/2016 09:10:38 PM · #37
Impressionism is not a photographic technique.
 11/08/2016 09:13:22 PM · #38
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Impressionism is not a photographic technique.

You better go email these guys to take their site down then:
Originally posted by theicequeen:

Well I googled it, and found this site:
//digital-photography-school.com/5-impressionist-photo-techniques/


And everyone else on google... https://i.imgur.com/NVJ0QFM.jpg

Message edited by author 2016-11-08 21:15:02.
 11/08/2016 09:21:25 PM · #39
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Impressionism is not a photographic technique.


Most painting styles are not photographic "techniques" but the camera can be coaxed into leaning in those directions. I think since this is a photography site we should not be allowed to use filter effects to get the painterly look.
 11/08/2016 09:22:19 PM · #40
Originally posted by riot:


I'm not intending to single out any images in the current contest, but I'm sure even you will have difficulty justifying how the elements in these partial images don't constitute "moving something to a new place", and how every pixel "belongs" where it's been placed.

Hi Eugene - I understand (believe me - very much so) the stance you're taking on the post-processing trends here on DPChallenge. However, I would like to point out that I can get pretty much the same effect you've illustrated here totally "in-camera" with various "creative styles" choices available. One click - no processing whatsoever.
11/08/2016 09:37:57 PM · #41
Originally posted by Neil:
Guys, this is exactly what's not supposed to be going on in a score thread (or any thread) during a competition.


You heard the guy. This sort of discussion is violating all sorts of TOS rules. No discussing individual images or techniques on images currently in voting. It is completely unfair. Show your displeasure through your scores. Not in the forums. I'm going to lock this thread down. Please start another one to discuss scores only. You can pick up this discussion in that thread AFTER rollover.
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