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06/05/2004 09:36:44 PM · #1 |
I have read that in the days of film (last year or something like that) that fine art prints were often done by hand. This meant that in a run of a 100 prints that the 100th could be slightly (or more so if the artist's taste changed in the printing process) different than the first. This does not translate to the digital world where every print made from the same 'print file' (spelled negative) would be exactly the same! Do you believe that this helps or hinders the artistic process? Have you ever gone back to a shot that you've completely post processed and started from scratch to find another gem hidden under the first?
This also leads into another question. Film photographers could have thousands of negatives filed. At any time they could go back and reprint, the same or diffently, any print. In the digital age, we can have thousands of files easily! Many of these files are not worth saving. Others may not appear to have any value the first time we see them, perhaps because we are biased towards the shots we thought were best when we took them, but later looks find gems in the rough so to speak. Then of course there are the shots that you KNOW are keepers from the very first time you see them. How many shots do YOU save? Do you keep all of them (packrat)? Do you keep only the obvious gems? Do you ever go back through old shots and photoshop ones that you didn't like the first time?
Or in other words, after you have taken the shots and are back at your computer, what is YOUR file management worklow?
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06/05/2004 10:17:06 PM · #2 |
My name is Laurie, and I am a...packrat...(chokes back tears)
I keep everything. I don't even know why. I have that "I might need it sometime later on" syndrome. Is there a support group I can join??? :o)
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06/05/2004 10:22:06 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by laurielblack:
My name is Laurie, and I am a...packrat...(chokes back tears)
I keep everything. I don't even know why. I have that "I might need it sometime later on" syndrome. |
Question is, do you go back and look through them later? Do you post process shots later that you didn't like looking at the out of camera file the first time? Or do you simply through them on a disc to age gracefully?
Message edited by author 2004-06-05 22:22:39.
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06/05/2004 10:23:57 PM · #4 |
Each time I reprint an image, I start it from scratch, from the RAW image again.
Mood, recent experience, time of day and improved skill always make the new versions more satisfying than the last. |
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06/05/2004 10:27:08 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by TooCool:
Question is, do you go back and look through them later? Do you post process shots later that you didn't like looking at the out of camera file the first time? Or do you simply through them on a disc to age gracefully? |
I put them on disc, then if I don't forget which disc a shot is on (or where I put the disc, or even to label the disc) I do go back occasionally to fiddle with certain shots or to print them for scrapbooks or what-have-you. Sometimes I make slideshows or DVDs for family/friends for birthdays, anniversaries, etc. I do a lot with our sons' sports pictures and make a team DVD or picture CD each season. So they do come in handy eventually...that is if I can find them...;o)
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06/05/2004 10:31:01 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by laurielblack:
My name is Laurie, and I am a...packrat...(chokes back tears)
I keep everything. I don't even know why. I have that "I might need it sometime later on" syndrome. Is there a support group I can join??? :o) |
"HI Laurie" PPP Anonymous.... (Packrats Perpetrated by Photgraphy) As a long-term packrat (ask my husband), I can tell you, that while there may be a support group, there is no cure. It's just something we learn to live with. My family thinks I save all my pictures because I grew up during the Depression (it was before I was born - really!), but I HAVE gone back to old pictures and found something worthwhile. You know, processes change. I'm learning more about editing and hopefully getting better. Photoshop is still a mystery to me, but I can get around in Digital Image Pro just fine. I have files and files of "actual" negatives as well. I am ever-so-slowly scanning prints and slides and saving them to cd's. I recently was gifted with a collection of slides from my husband's family which were over 50 years old. I'm scanning them and saving to cd's which I am distributing to everyone in the family so they aren't lost. Anyway, I save just about everything to cd and back them too. Now, I'm experimenting with DVD's, but that's unfamiliar territory for me. What does everyone else do??
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06/05/2004 10:39:36 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by ancientimages:
Originally posted by laurielblack:
My name is Laurie, and I am a...packrat...(chokes back tears)
I keep everything. I don't even know why. I have that "I might need it sometime later on" syndrome. Is there a support group I can join??? :o) |
"HI Laurie" PPP Anonymous.... (Packrats Perpetrated by Photgraphy) As a long-term packrat (ask my husband), I can tell you, that while there may be a support group, there is no cure. It's just something we learn to live with. My family thinks I save all my pictures because I grew up during the Depression (it was before I was born - really!), but I HAVE gone back to old pictures and found something worthwhile. You know, processes change. I'm learning more about editing and hopefully getting better. Photoshop is still a mystery to me, but I can get around in Digital Image Pro just fine. I have files and files of "actual" negatives as well. I am ever-so-slowly scanning prints and slides and saving them to cd's. I recently was gifted with a collection of slides from my husband's family which were over 50 years old. I'm scanning them and saving to cd's which I am distributing to everyone in the family so they aren't lost. Anyway, I save just about everything to cd and back them too. Now, I'm experimenting with DVD's, but that's unfamiliar territory for me. What does everyone else do?? |
Uh . . . .I do what you and Laurie do. Save, save, save. Actually, I do go back (as I did today) and make myself delete the ones I think I have at least gotten better than THAT, or I keep a few to experiment on in Digital Pro (getting PS soon). I am a bit worried about the future though; my hard drive is already freaking out today, and I have put a lot on CD. Now we won't even talk about all my film negatives and all the great old photos I have from my parents and grandparents. Can I hire someone to scan and convert all this? But this is coming from a woman who has 15 photo albums of her daughter and only one for the whole rest of her life! I am truly in need of help.
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06/05/2004 11:13:57 PM · #8 |
Kylie and Laurie, at least you admit to trying to improve. I'm in a hopeless denial phase as I am still making excuses as to WHY I need to save most of those images.
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06/05/2004 11:47:28 PM · #9 |
I keep Everything ... I have files of Negatives ... Boxes of old prints...and tons of floppy disks, zip disks and finally CD's -- some are cataloged, but most are just piled up.
Sometimes it's fun to flip through them - edit them and creat new photos from old ideas -- sometimes flipping through them inspires new ideas from old photos
and sometimes it's just a waste of time.
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06/06/2004 12:07:55 AM · #10 |
I usually trash 90/100 photos I take.
The remaining 10 go into respective albums (folders) in iPhoto, where I archive everything current.
One of these is albums is called 'Gallery'. Here I keep images of any category but only those I consider my very best. On a good day, I'd probably deposit 1-3/100 shots into the 'Gallery'.
As I keep going through my image library (sorted by date), examining, cropping, making adjustments to brightness contrast, converting to b & w, I discard even more shots. I figure, the more I throw away, the better what is left.
When I have nothing left, I go out and look for that which has eluded me so far.
Message edited by author 2004-06-06 00:09:20.
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06/06/2004 12:24:34 AM · #11 |
| it seems that this might fall down the old Male/Female lines...I too keep every shot...I hqave only been known to delete totally out of focus shots ( I use Manual vs Auto ) otherwise, I keep everything and save them to disc once my computer gets full and I do go back and re-review them...and have played with them in Photoshop... |
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06/06/2004 12:26:38 AM · #12 |
Good idea, Zeus! I'm gonna try that.
Originally posted by zeuszen:
I usually trash 90/100 photos I take.
The remaining 10 go into respective albums (folders) in iPhoto, where I archive everything current.
One of these is albums is called 'Gallery'. Here I keep images of any category but only those I consider my very best. On a good day, I'd probably deposit 1-3/100 shots into the 'Gallery'.
As I keep going through my image library (sorted by date), examining, cropping, making adjustments to brightness contrast, converting to b & w, I discard even more shots. I figure, the more I throw away, the better what is left.
When I have nothing left, I go out and look for that which has eluded me so far. |
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06/06/2004 01:24:35 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
I usually trash 90/100 photos I take.... When I have nothing left, I go out and look for that which has eluded me so far. |
Wise words. :) I also delete at least 90% of the photos I take. Even tho I have plenty of room for all of them if I had to keep them all, I just can't stand keeping "junk" (in my eyes) on my hard drive.
Hopefully for those who have images on diskettes, especially, don't count on those lasting for more then a couple years. I backup my images every several months to my other workstation and then onto CDs. The reason is, even CDs will not last forever. So I'll always have a fresh set of CDs from no more then 4 months ago to fall back on if needed.
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06/06/2004 02:09:29 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by Kerry:
it seems that this might fall down the old Male/Female lines...I too keep every shot...I hqave only been known to delete totally out of focus shots ( I use Manual vs Auto ) otherwise, I keep everything and save them to disc once my computer gets full and I do go back and re-review them...and have played with them in Photoshop... |
Unfortunately, no it doesn't. :-) I keep almost all of my photos backed up on disc.
When I first download a new batch of images from the camera, step 1 is to look through all of them and get rid of the ones that I screwed up beyond redemption: maybe 5-10%. Then I take all of the remaining photos and back them up into an "originals" folder. Then I go through those photos and pull out the 5-10% that I really like and copy them into a separate "keepers" folder. Then I run a Photoshop batch process on all of the photos and back up all of them and all of the originals onto an external hard drive. Then, when I amass about 700MB worth of originals or processed files, I back them up onto CD, leave them on my external drive and erase them from my internal drive.
Oh, I forgot the fun part - after I separate those 5-10% of photos that I really like, I spend the rest of the day playing around with them in Photoshop and then print out the ones I like best and post them on ofoto.com so my family can see them. Then I lather, rinse and repeat.
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06/06/2004 03:01:15 AM · #15 |
I have not been at photography to have devoloped much of anything. ;p
I know from previous experience though that I have the family curse of being a packrat. I will keep everything, regardless of what it is, if I can not recreate it on a moments notice (and I will probably keep it then, just so I do not have to recreate it).
My wife is just about as opposite on this as it gets. If it has not been put to use in the last -- oh, say about 24 hrs -- and is not planned on being used in a similar timespan of the future, it is useless trash that is cluttering our lives. (looks over to make sure she is sleeping) *wispers*She is usually right about what is not useful, and as in most other things, is quite good for me. *wispers*
I make folders to dump everything into. I had been trying to sort them by topic (wife, kids, stills, challenge, etc.) but that just has not been working. So now I am storing them by date. This is everything; in focus, out of focus, no head, just a hand as my kids leap out of the frame, absolutely everthing. I have been trying to get myself to go back through them and get rid of the completely unredeemable ones at least, but so far I have not done it. This is as good a time as any.
David
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06/06/2004 09:16:14 AM · #16 |
I delete most of my shots and keep the ones I like. I'd say I'll trash about 95/100 if I'm trying to get a good composition on something, but on the ones that I plan out, I only have to delete about 1 in 6 but then when I'm processing them I will only keep the best one of the group.
Pretty soon I think I will buy an external hard drive to store them on. That way I will be able to use other people's computers to do the first cut if I am away from home and also have some sort of orginazation over a longer period of time. My cds get so jumbled up.
I only shoot raw, so the possibilities to go back and do something completely different is always there. |
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06/07/2004 01:26:14 PM · #17 |
Bumping into the weekday crowd
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06/07/2004 03:50:19 PM · #18 |
I too am a male packrat. I keep almost every shot that I take. This can be partially justifed by the fact that I do a lot of graphic design work with my photography. There is a lot of potential to use a "screwed up" shot as a design element - like a background, brush, knockout, texture, etc. But it never seems to work that way. And what good is potential if you don't use it? It's very close to stressfull having so many images. I find it hard to delete any personal photos, since it feels like I am trashing memories, but maybe I can let go of some mf my project photography.
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06/07/2004 04:01:38 PM · #19 |
I vary this enormously - sometimes I work au Zeus, sometimes I keep everything. The primary way i keep images I know I'm going to be going back to, or need to print sometime, is a folder system that's labelled 2002, 2003, 2004 etc. Within each of those there's an originals, a web-sized (dpc limits these days, for convenience), and a 'finished' folder - finished being print files. The print files are for reference really - like Gordon, I rarely make two prints the same.
Exceptions are specific projects, which will be files in their own heading folder.
Using something like breezebrowser (which I'm no big fan of, but it's convenient - anyone know a better browser program?), I can reach all of these deifferent places using them as separate collections.
ed
edit ... which is not to say I haven't got a bunch of deleting backing up on me :-]
Message edited by author 2004-06-07 16:02:37.
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06/08/2004 12:16:21 PM · #20 |
This thread inspired me and because I felt that none of my current photos are goood enough for challenges, I spent all day yesterday just cleaning up photo folders, practicing editing on the ones that I had saved for that, getting rid of anything not memory-worthy or display-worthy, and then re-organizing what was left. I learned so much yesterday, just focusing on that -- I really saw my own shots and potential much clearer, and I have a much-reduced clutter. It was becoming stressful, as one person put it, having so much stuff and never using half of it. Still have another few hours I'd like to go to really get squared away, but trust me, it feels good!
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06/08/2004 12:41:38 PM · #21 |
I did the same thing, Kylie...sort of. I backed up every picture on my computer onto CD, then did the drag and drop thing, putting all those picture files into the recycle bin...and then I froze up. Why can't I bring myself to empty that stupid bin!?!?!?! I can't explain the traumatic emotions that simple little computer command can bring up in me! Am I completely insane? Is there any hope???? AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! :o)
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06/08/2004 12:48:52 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by laurielblack:
I did the same thing, Kylie...sort of. I backed up every picture on my computer onto CD, then did the drag and drop thing, putting all those picture files into the recycle bin...and then I froze up. Why can't I bring myself to empty that stupid bin!?!?!?! I can't explain the traumatic emotions that simple little computer command can bring up in me! Am I completely insane? Is there any hope???? AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! :o) |
You do not have to empty it yourself. It will only hold so much (typically 10% of the size of the drive), when it gets full it removes the oldest to make room for the newer. If you deleted very much, only last ones will still be in the bin, and as you delete more stuff (not just pictures) the rest will be removed as well.
David
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06/08/2004 12:55:18 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by Britannica:
You do not have to empty it yourself. It will only hold so much (typically 10% of the size of the drive), when it gets full it removes the oldest to make room for the newer. If you deleted very much, only last ones will still be in the bin, and as you delete more stuff (not just pictures) the rest will be removed as well.
David |
OH NO!!! Now I have to worry about what it's deleted since I put those in there...will the torment never end?????????????????
Sorry, I will take a deep, calming breath...
...but I don't feel much better. Maybe there's a support group I can join somewhere. :o)
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06/08/2004 01:09:43 PM · #24 |
Well . . . I have to be honest . . . what was supposed to result in a 90% reduction (after seeing people's "rejects" for the challenges, felt all of mine needed to get trashed), ended up being a photo editing marathon and I ened up attached to some of my "masterpieces". What I am seeing, though, is that if I do this every month, I will end up able to part with the older ones that I think I have done a little better since. Maybe there is a light at the end of the tunnel . . . .
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06/08/2004 01:46:01 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by laurielblack:
Originally posted by Britannica:
You do not have to empty it yourself. It will only hold so much (typically 10% of the size of the drive), when it gets full it removes the oldest to make room for the newer. If you deleted very much, only last ones will still be in the bin, and as you delete more stuff (not just pictures) the rest will be removed as well.
David |
OH NO!!! Now I have to worry about what it's deleted since I put those in there...will the torment never end?????????????????
Sorry, I will take a deep, calming breath...
...but I don't feel much better. Maybe there's a support group I can join somewhere. :o) |
Well, since you said you backed them up to CD...Here is a bit of therapy for you: Get those CDs, copy everything back to the harddrive, verify they are there and delete them again. Repeat this as many times as needed until you are comfortable with not having everything on your harddisk. It shouldn't take more than a few repeats (ok, maybe a few hundred). :p
David
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