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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Canon 10D or Rebel?
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 06/25/2004 12:51:24 AM · #1
Hey all--
I have a quick question for all of you guys: which, in your opinion, is a nicer camera, the Canon 10D or the EOS Digital Rebel? I have a friend who has the 10D and loves it, but said the Rebel was, in his opinion, a better camera. What do you think? I'm thinking about upgrading from my boring little Sony Mavica CD300, and I really like the look of those two Canons. So, thanks for your help!
Oh, and in case this might help--I am wanting to do some sports photography, so I'm looking for a camera that will do that sort of thing. Thanks!
Cristin
 06/25/2004 01:06:31 AM · #2
Hi Christie,
I'm new to SLR photography and bought a Rebel about 4 weeks ago. The price was my deciding factor. I figured I wouldn't need the features that the 10D has and Rebel doesn't until my skills are a bit further advanced. However I am already finding I could use some of the things the 10D can do such as using custom white balancing in the camera's pre-set modes.

I would suggest that if price is not an issue that it may be worth considering the 10D as it offers a little more flexibility than the Rebel.

On the upside for the Rebel it is extremely light, even with the 18-55 mm kit lens attached. I've heard it described as a good "walk around camera". I've found this to be the case myself. I hope this helps you decide.
 06/25/2004 01:23:31 AM · #3
The 10D is a better camera in terms of feature set. The 300D is a better value in terms of dollars invested. It's two/thirds the price of the 10D, but it's more than two/thirds of the camera. If budget is a factor, get the Rebel. If not, and you want the most camera, get the 10D. MHO, of course!
06/25/2004 03:18:25 AM · #4
Originally posted by boomer:
It's two/thirds the price of the 10D, but it's more than two/thirds of the camera. If budget is a factor, get the Rebel. If not, and you want the most camera, get the 10D. MHO, of course!

Well said, I agree.

Edit: Another consideration is that saving money by buying a 300D will allow you to spend more on lenses (a fundamental component of a good quality image) and accessories like a bag, memory, etc.

Message edited by author 2004-06-25 03:19:29.
 06/25/2004 04:26:47 AM · #5
I am making the leap to DSLR right now and had pretty much decided to buy the 10D. Once I added up the total cost of everything I would need to get started, it was a pretty significant leap from my old point-and-click. When I found the 300D on a great sale at OneCall, I decided to spend less on the camera and to invest more in the lens instead. That way, after I get more practice with the DSLR, I can replace the 300D later with whatever replaces the 10D.

That 300D firmware hack was another contributing factor, since I know I can use it if I want to add a few of the 10D features that I like, but which are missing from the 300D.
 06/25/2004 04:41:26 AM · #6
I'm also interested in purchasing a Canon DSLR. I'd like to know more of this 300D hack you speak of. Specifically, what is enabled after performing the firmware upgrade?
 06/25/2004 04:42:09 AM · #7
Originally posted by Bran-O-Rama:
I'm also interested in purchasing a Canon DSLR. I'd like to know more of this 300D hack you speak of. Specifically, what is enabled after performing the firmware upgrade?

See this thread.
 06/25/2004 04:43:56 AM · #8
Originally posted by christie3:
I am wanting to do some sports photography, so I'm looking for a camera that will do that sort of thing.


You can see some sports shots I've taken here.

Well, I think you need to decide at what level you want to shoot sports. If you're meaning take photos of the kids at the local ball field and share them with the parents or sell them to the parents then actually either of these will work. If you plan on shooting indoor sports then either will work but you'll have to invest in some fast glass (f/2.8 can produce acceptable indoor images) with either camera. If you want to shoot horse races then perhaps neither of these cameras is going to give you what you want. I'm not trying to be a snob here, I just know that often people invest in a DSLR and then find that it has limitations that have to be worked around similarly to any digicam. Of course the shutter lag and the viewfinder blackout time are faster on the DSLRs (and for those who would like to pick nits I know that digicams don't have exactly the same kind of blackout time but they do generally freeze the image on the display while writing to media).
You would help yourself to define a little more about what you would enjoy doing with the camera since it sounds like you have a particular interest in mind. Either camera body can capture action on the ball field or at a gymnastics competition but neither body will give you the overwhelming volume of shots from which you can select the sweetest action pose like the 1DmII does. I'm not suggesting you need that; I'm just pointing out that you're looking at getting 3 frames per second and you need to know that to get a good action shot you'll have to work with the camera because neither is designed to take high-speed action shots. Knowing that, if you think you want to take some shots to hand out to family or even to sell to other parents at the ball fields, swim meets, tennis games, etc then either body will work. I have used my 10D to do this at a local high school for their baseball games and a friend of mine has used his 300D to photograph the kids that his son plays with. I hated the experience because I wanted to edit the photos and the parents just wanted me to print them out and sell 'em right there. My buddy loves raking in some extra dough since he will be at the ball field all day anyway (seems like 12 year olds play games all day long and apparently you have to wait on the fields during tournaments). He pulled in a few hundred dollars recently at a tournament he wasn't even working because his wife took a book of photos he'd shot at the tournament down to the field to get them a spot to sit and watch their son's game later that night and when he got there she'd already sold all but 3 of the photos to the parents who kept hearing about the quality of shots she had and came over to see. It is worth noting that because of the difference in quality between our shots, his wife pushed him to invest in the Canon EF 70-200 f/2.8 lens ($1150 from B&H).

Frankly, if you're looking to shoot this kind of action (and I have no idea what you really want to photograph) then you might want to take a look at the Nikon D70 only because of the buffer it has. The 300D can hold 4 shots I think, the 10D has about a 9-10 frame buffer but it seems like the D70 will hold 20 frames in the buffer. If you're shooting young kids that probably won't make a difference but for high school and older you might find that being able to just hold the shutter down and get a series of shots enables you to select the best one where all participants present the most compelling "story"; I kinda guess that's why the 1D and 1DmII will shoot 8.3 frames per second.

I definitely second the suggestion that you'll really need to consider the cost of good glass to shoot sports.

Kev
 06/25/2004 07:02:37 AM · #9
10D has more features but doesnt automatically make better pics. Would look at dpreview.com or some other sites to see if you need this features (wich actiually be mostly replaced by a hacked firmware, take a look at other threads dealing with that).

You mentioned sports photography. 10D has bigger memory buffer (can shoot more shots in less time in continous mode) so there it has some preference.

I´ve had may drebel for 2 months now and I´m very happy with it and I can highly recomend it so you probably will not be disapointed with such a camera.
It´s mainly a queastion of what features you need and what you are ready to spend much money.
Have you looked at Nikon D70? Havent tried it myself but I think it´s a great camera. It has all what 10D has (and even more) and is in the price range between rebel and 10D, though good Nikkor lenses may be a litle more expensive than Canon´s. If I were you I would at least consider that chioce.
 06/25/2004 07:31:12 AM · #10
Originally posted by christie3:
Hey all--
I have a quick question for all of you guys: which, in your opinion, is a nicer camera, the Canon 10D or the EOS Digital Rebel? Cristin


What do I think? Olympus E-1. I have been lurking around here for some time and I am amazed of the "follow the leader" type mentality at this site. Now before I get flamed to death let me first say that I think all the new DSLR's out there are great cameras. I don't think you can find a bad one. They all have there strong points and weaknesses but what bothers me so much is that the E-1 is not even considered here. I think there is a total of 6 E-1 users on this whole site. Here are just a few of it's strong points:

Weather proof. This is the only DSLR in it's price range that is.

Sonic cleaner. I have yet to hear of anyone having a problem with dust on the sensor

Lighter and smaller then the D10

Great images right from the camera. Very little post processing

No backfocus issues

14 - 200 f2.8-3.5 (28 - 400 35mm equiv.)with just two lenses

4/3 aspic ratio for less cropping for standard prints like 4x5 8x10 etc.

Firmware update through USB connected to the internet

Great metering

Near perfect white ballance plus one touch white ballence button.

I could go on forever but I won't. All I ask is that the users of this site at least recognize the fact that there are other cameras out there other then just Canon and Nikon. I know a lot of people that have sold all of there Canon gear and bought into the E-1 system If you are interested in seeing what other owners are saying about the E-1 check this out.

//www.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1022


Tom

06/25/2004 07:36:44 AM · #11
I think people want Canon and Nikon for the simple reason that those are what professionals use the most!...
And why should they pick those over Olympus or something else?
That you will have to ask someone with more knowledge then me.
I just happened to stumble into a shop that sold only Canon so I wouldnt know:p

I am no expert on Camera hardware but I´ve never seen a pro using Olympus DSLR ....
06/25/2004 07:37:44 AM · #12
Originally posted by TomH1000:
I could go on forever but I won't. All I ask is that the users of this site at least recognize the fact that there are other cameras out there other then just Canon and Nikon.

It's definitely an option. Just for a balanced review, on the other side of the E1 coin:

- Higher noise than Canon CMOS
- More expensive for starter's kit
- Very small range of lenses
- New system, so doubtful future
 06/25/2004 07:40:30 AM · #13
Originally posted by Nazgul:
I just happened to stumble into a shop that sold only Canon so I wouldnt know:p

Hehehe, I love those strange twists of fate. :-)

TomH1000 - Equally, if we're offering the E1 as an option, the Pentax *ist D should really be mentioned too.
 06/25/2004 07:51:17 AM · #14
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by Nazgul:
I just happened to stumble into a shop that sold only Canon so I wouldnt know:p

Hehehe, I love those strange twists of fate. :-)

TomH1000 - Equally, if we're offering the E1 as an option, the Pentax *ist D should really be mentioned too.


And the Sigma DSLR´s.

But about the Pentax. If any user see´s this I would like to see his opinion of it. Get´s pretty good review on dpreview.
 06/25/2004 07:53:17 AM · #15
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by TomH1000:
I could go on forever but I won't. All I ask is that the users of this site at least recognize the fact that there are other cameras out there other then just Canon and Nikon.

It's definitely an option. Just for a balanced review, on the other side of the E1 coin:

- Higher noise than Canon CMOS
- More expensive for starter's kit
- Very small range of lenses
- New system, so doubtful future


Noise is ver film like and cleans up very nice with Neat Image

Price has droped and is much the same as the 10D

More lenses will be coming. Smaller, more focal length with just two lenses

You are right about new system. Where it will go only time will tell. Here is another site with all E-1 images. The photos speak for them self.
//www.myfourthirds.com

Here is an image at ISO 800

//www.myfourthirds.com/document.php?id=2367

Tom
 06/25/2004 08:04:52 AM · #16
Originally posted by TomH1000:
Price has droped and is much the same as the 10D


Exactly. The price is (almost) the same as 10D!!!! I would consider this choice if it were half the price of a 10D.
 06/25/2004 08:05:31 AM · #17
Originally posted by garlic:
Originally posted by TomH1000:
Price has droped and is much the same as the 10D

Exactly. The price is (almost) the same as 10D!!!! I would consider this choice if it were half the price of a 10D.

I was referring to a system with lenses too. Try buying an E1 with a 'starter's kit' of lenses.
 06/25/2004 08:12:17 AM · #18
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by Nazgul:
I just happened to stumble into a shop that sold only Canon so I wouldnt know:p

Hehehe, I love those strange twists of fate. :-)

TomH1000 - Equally, if we're offering the E1 as an option, the Pentax *ist D should really be mentioned too.


Yes and this is my point exactly. Theres more out there then just Canon and Nikon. For me the E-1 was right for me. It may not be right for everyone.

Tom

06/25/2004 08:21:45 AM · #19
Originally posted by Nazgul:

I am no expert on Camera hardware but I´ve never seen a pro using Olympus DSLR ....


Well the term "Pro" is a relitive term. I am a pro because I make money at what I do with my camera. I do weddings, events portraits etc.. I know many other "Pros" that have sold all there Canon things and bought the E-1 but know none that went back. This all must mean something about the camera. Keep in mind that just because a camera is not (yet anyway) accepted by all the pros out there does not mean it is not a pro level camera.

Tom
 06/25/2004 08:23:39 AM · #20
Originally posted by TomH1000:
Theres more out there then just Canon and Nikon. For me the E-1 was right for me. It may not be right for everyone.

Tom


You are right Tom, there is more than only Canon and Nikon but if you take a look at quiality and price and avalible lenses and accesories then it isnt very hard to see why most of us choose them.
But thx for pointing it out.
 06/25/2004 08:24:29 AM · #21
I don't think I'd consider the E1 at all from the reviews I've read on it recently. The last comparative review I read it came well below the 10D, D70 and 300D.

In terms of glass, sure, new lenses are doubtless coming, but they are not going to catch up with the Canon or Nikon range realistically, which will also be constantly expandign one assumes.

Sure, you can clean up the noise with the right software ... but if that were sufficient why would anyone even worry about noise? You will always get a better image if no noise needs to be cleaned out, than you will with a noisy photo then "cleaned". Tom, you state at one point that there is very little post processing required .... and then state how well the noice can be cleaned up with Neatimage.

Is it a follow the leader mentality with Canon and Nikon ... or is it that maybe those guys have got a great product range, for many reasons.

I went Canon over Nikon as I had Canon Glass. My choice at the time was the D100 or 10D.

Had the 300D been available, though it is not quite as good as the 10D (build quality for instance) I would have probably gone for the 300D as I could not justify the extra $ for the little extra the 10D. I think the 300D is better value.

If I had no glass then I would also be very seriously consider the D70 indeed as it is also winning awards, and definitely the D70 over the D100 from what I have read.

06/25/2004 08:37:39 AM · #22
If your main goal is to do sports photography, then I would seriously consider the Nikon D70 or a Canon with fast glass. Any camera in this line up, i.e. the 300D, 10D, or D70 will most likely do the job as it's the person pushing the shutter that really counts, right? And not to offend other brand owners - I'm sure your cameras are great too but I have less experience with them so I'll leave them alone. Now, on to my point!
I looked at the 10D and the 300D... I compared feature sets along with price, keeping in mind the cost of lenses and other stuff I would want/need. The 300D granted me total happiness. What do I mean by total? Well, the camera will do what I need it to do and the price won't force me to go into debt (something I hate and that would detract from my enjoyment).
The good news is that you really can't make a bad choice here - they are all excellent. Good luck :-)
 06/25/2004 08:40:25 AM · #23
Originally posted by digistoune:

The good news is that you really can't make a bad choice here - they are all excellent. Good luck :-)


Couldn't agree more with that.

With ALL of the cameras being discussed in this thread you are going to end up with sensational photos. Many of the difference people debate are inconsequential in the larger scheme and I think the pros and cons of any of the camera here are so small that the influence of the photographer will have a FAR greater effect.
 06/25/2004 09:25:42 AM · #24
Asking why post-process noise when you don't have to is like an E-1 user asking why worry about post-processing dust if you don't need to. Personally, I think the dust-avoidance is a much bigger issue, and a really nice feature of the Olympus E-1. And you have to be shooting a pretty high ISOs for the E-1 noise to be an issue. At 800 and higher, I would likely be removing noise from any camera's shots.
 06/25/2004 09:29:21 AM · #25
Originally posted by joeru:
Asking why post-process noise when you don't have to is like an E-1 user asking why worry about post-processing dust if you don't need to.

Dust affects maybe, generously, 5% of an image. Noise affects 100% of the image. Try clone-brushing out noise!
Originally posted by joeru:
At 800 and higher, I would likely be removing noise from any camera's shots.

That's the point - I shoot a lot of the time on ISO 800, and I don't have to.
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