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08/04/2004 07:50:25 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by Russell2566:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I support Kerry because he's not Bush. |
Wow, way too go... Too bad there isn't an IQ test for voting... |
Wow, that's pretty rude and definitely uncalled for.
I'll explain, but if I use too many big words, let me know and I'll break it down into little bitty pieces that you can wrap your tiny mind around.
In my opinion (I'm entitled to mine, just as you are entitled to yours unless Groupthink has become Federal law), Bush is one of the worst presidents ever. I'm not necessarily a Kerry fan, but I certainly don't want another 4 years of Bush.
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08/04/2004 08:00:13 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by pitsaman:
In good old Clinton times in my area:
Motorola built 4 manufacturing plants
Lucent built 2 manufacturing plants
Tellabs built 1 plant
3-com built 1 plant
Gas price 1.45 gallon
3 bedroom new home price 130,000 $
Milk gallon 2.20 $
In good new Bush times in my area:
Motorola closed 3 manufacturing plants
Lucent closed 2 manufacturing plants
Tellabs closed 1 plant
3-com closed 1 plant
Gas price 2.05 gallon
3 bedroom new home price 330,000 $
Milk gallon 4,20 $
4 more years please,I love misery ! |
Didn't the big stock market crash start while Clinton was President? Didn't Motorola-Lucent-others close plants because of out sourcing (thanks to NAFTA = Clinton) and the stock market crash?
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08/04/2004 08:29:20 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by thelsel:
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Bottom line is this: You can argue about whether or not Kerry earned his purple hearts, but you can't argue if he served in wartime military and that he led men in combat. With Bush, the only thing you can argue is if he served at all, and he still hasn't proven that he has. |
Ah, but he HAS proven that he served. Either that or the National Guard was paying a civilian to fly in their aircraft. And he somehow got someone to forge several AF Forms 526. And he effectively fooled Lt. Col. Albert C. Lloyd, Jr. (Ret.), who verified some of his MILITARY pay records. His Statement
So, if you can argue whether BUSH served, even though there's proof that he did, then you can argue about Kerry's service. Try again. |
***
Those military pay records were almost illegible and you could not read every other word on them. Are there any who served with Bush who will come forward now and acknowledge that he knew Bush back then in the military reserve? I think Kerry had 12 former military men who served with him on stage at the democratic national convention with him, is what I remember reading (I did not actually see that since I watched very little of the DNC).
Besides, getting paid does not prove that a person served...just that they were getting paid. |
Bush did serve the military in wartime and it quite easy to prove. He̢۪s doing it RIGHT NOW as commander and chief! |
***
Well then, heck, put him out on the front lines and lets see what mettle he's made of! |
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08/04/2004 08:34:00 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
***
Those military pay records were almost illegible and you could not read every other word on them. Are there any who served with Bush who will come forward now and acknowledge that he knew Bush back then in the military reserve? I think Kerry had 12 former military men who served with him on stage at the democratic national convention with him, is what I remember reading (I did not actually see that since I watched very little of the DNC).
Besides, getting paid does not prove that a person served...just that they were getting paid. |
Yeah, just like a purple heart doesn't prove that a person was wounded in combat, just that they got someone to sign a piece of paper saying that they shed a drop of blood while on active duty in a combat zone. |
***
Ron, I"m not arguing about his purple hearts and if you look at my statement above I say just that. But, Kerry did serve and lead men in combat...alot more than our president has done. I would think that there would be a lot more records of Bush's serving and flying during his stint in the national guard as a pilot. But then again, yes, he was flying, and very high at that, but not the military way.
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08/04/2004 08:58:07 PM · #55 |
NEW POLL.
10 out of 10 terrorists agree.
Anybody but BUSH. |
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08/04/2004 09:19:11 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by Flash:
NEW POLL.
10 out of 10 terrorists agree.
Anybody but BUSH. |
I'm tired of providing individual attention to uninformed comments like the one you made. So, let me refer to one of my earlier posts (made elsewhere in DPC), in response to a similarly uninformed charge.
Quote:
Originally posted by EddyG:
I highly recommend that everyone read this book:
Can America Survive?: The Rage of the Left, the Truth, and What to Do About It
No matter which way you lean politically, this book is an eye-opener about how Americans are hurting their own country as much as, if not more than, Islamic extremists.
The threat of bombs and bullets and every other form of terrorism comes mostly from Islamic extremists. But a powerful threat also stems from homegrown anti-Americanism from the left of the political and cultural spectrum. From "comedians" working for leading Democrat candidates who call the American President "... a piece of [expletive deleted]" to the candidates themselves who try to whip up feelings of victimization and anger in ethnic minorities, to universities that preach that America is the main villain on Earth and that 9/11 was richly deserved.
If you're an American, and care about the country you live in, this book will make you think... |
Incredible how this tactic keeps on being relied on by those that support the Bush administration, that is: question the opposition's patriotism by associating criticism of the administration with support for terrorism. The title of the book says it all, "Can America Survive?: The Rage of the Left, the Truth, and What to Do About It.
Well, first, I love this country... I love its ideals... I have worn the nation's uniform... my brother has worn the nation's uniform... on the porch of my house I proudly fly the American flag, and I constantly remind friends, neighbors and co-workers to read two of the American pillars: The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution. And, yes, I proudly call myself a Democrat (a Liberal if you prefer) -- if called on, I would again swear to serve and protect The Constitution. Therefore, I utterly reject and resent that I -- or anyone that dare do their American given right to constructively critique it -- be associated with terrorism or with the undermining of the country I love.
Secondly, I question the motives of books that would divide us between Red and Blue states... between so-called patriots and anti-American haters... to paraphrase John Kerry, there are no Red or Blue states, there's only Red, White and Blue. And, while Ben Stein (the co-author of this book, among others, and of Ferris Bueller's Day Off fame), I'm sure, is a fine professor at Pepperdine University, where Kenneth Star (whom investigated Clinton at a cost of $72 million just to conclude that Clinton had received a B.J.) now works, what authority and credibility does Mr. Stein have to associate me with terrorists.
Close quote.
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08/04/2004 09:41:52 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by Flash:
NEW POLL.
10 out of 10 terrorists agree.
Anybody but BUSH. |
Honestly, this just seems completely the opposite of common sense. What more would a terrorist want than a common rallying point and an easy enemy ? Isn't 'Bring it On' a great recruiting slogan for the jihad. The IRA had a much easier time recruiting when the British were shooting them in the streets than when the peace process started and suddenly the terrorists had no backing, even from their own side.
But as the 'uniter' says - 'you are either with us or against us'
Here's a George W. quote "Second, I showed the people of Texas that I'm a uniter, not a divider. I refuse to play the politics of putting people into groups and pitting one group against another."
Message edited by author 2004-08-04 21:46:06.
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08/04/2004 09:42:19 PM · #58 |
bdobe,
1st....I am far from uninformed.
2nd....you can and will support whomever you choose.
3rd....10 out of 10 terrorists still agree. |
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08/04/2004 09:46:10 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
What more would a terrorist want than a common rallying point and an easy enemy ? |
Terrorists want an EASY enemy. In this you are correct. I do not believe that they have found one here. |
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08/04/2004 09:48:10 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Terrorists want an EASY enemy. In this you are correct. I do not believe that they have found one here. |
You misconstrue the use of the word easy. Bush is a rallying point for all the people in the world that are majorly or minorly against the US. He seems to have gone out of his way to lose all the sympathy the world had for the US after sept 11th
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08/04/2004 09:54:33 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by jab119:
Originally posted by jonr:
Please, keep political mud-flinging out of dpchallenge. |
there is now a forum option to ignore a specific thread. I use it all the time and will do the same on this thread.
James |
ditto to what James say |
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08/04/2004 10:00:18 PM · #62 |
Gordon,
I understand your points and positions. recently had an opportunity to visit with some close friends from Ireland while they were in Chicago. Politics were part of the converstaion. Europeans certainly have a different take on our politics that some of us do. They do tend to see things more Globally and interconnected. Our friends had very similar positions as your own and they live just out side Belfast which has seen its own "terrorism" for years.
I believe that for many americans...certainly not all, but many....we really resent being told to abide by a world opinion, when we have donated so many millions and millions of dollars as well as hundreds of thousands of lives for the Freedoms that much of the world enjoys.
Regarding Mr. Bush. I am not a fan of his. But for anyone to accept the forgeries of Mr. Kerry as BETTER, that I find puzzling. I just see as weaker not better. |
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08/04/2004 10:03:35 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by Flash:
NEW POLL.
10 out of 10 terrorists agree.
Anybody but BUSH. |
Honestly, this just seems completely the opposite of common sense. What more would a terrorist want than a common rallying point and an easy enemy ? Isn't 'Bring it On' a great recruiting slogan for the jihad. The IRA had a much easier time recruiting when the British were shooting them in the streets than when the peace process started and suddenly the terrorists had no backing, even from their own side.
But as the 'uniter' says - 'you are either with us or against us'
Here's a George W. quote "Second, I showed the people of Texas that I'm a uniter, not a divider. I refuse to play the politics of putting people into groups and pitting one group against another." |
Terrorists that hate America and dont care who is in office. They could care less who holds office, all they want to do is kill innocent Americans to make a "statement".
No matter who is elected to office, these horrible actions will not stop. The hatred is not with those in office, its with hating a certain group of people.
Message edited by author 2004-08-04 22:05:48. |
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08/04/2004 10:03:38 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by Flash:
NEW POLL.
10 out of 10 terrorists agree.
Anybody but BUSH. |
***
What new pole? Got a link? |
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08/04/2004 10:03:58 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Gordon,
I understand your points and positions. recently had an opportunity to visit with some close friends from Ireland while they were in Chicago. Politics were part of the converstaion. Europeans certainly have a different take on our politics that some of us do. They do tend to see things more Globally and interconnected. Our friends had very similar positions as your own and they live just out side Belfast which has seen its own "terrorism" for years.
I believe that for many americans...certainly not all, but many....we really resent being told to abide by a world opinion, when we have donated so many millions and millions of dollars as well as hundreds of thousands of lives for the Freedoms that much of the world enjoys.
Regarding Mr. Bush. I am not a fan of his. But for anyone to accept the forgeries of Mr. Kerry as BETTER, that I find puzzling. I just see as weaker not better. |
I haven't seen much of anything from Kerry to say that he's better, though I haven't seen anything that would say he could be any worse - which is probably more the issue at hand. Given almost universal support and offers of help, Bush seems to have managed to turn that tide of support almost entirely in the opposite direction. No mean feat.
Also - not so sure why they actions of the IRA warrant quoted "terrorism" I lived and worked with a survivor of the Omagh bombings, it is real terrorism that was practiced by the IRA too. That country eventually got tired of the continual tit-for-tat killings by the terrorists and the governments and sought a more meaningful solution.
Message edited by author 2004-08-04 22:07:11.
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08/04/2004 10:05:05 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by Riggs:
Terrorists that hate America and dont care who is in office. They could care less who holds office, all they want to do is kill innocent Americans to make a "statement".
No matter who is elected to office, these horrible actions will not stop. The hatred is not with those in office, its with who you are. |
And why do you think that is ? What do you feel that Americans have done to deserve that anger and wrath ? Who are you that they hate you so much ?
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08/04/2004 10:08:25 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Well I don't know about you, but as for me, the more taxes I have to pay the better I like it. I'd rather pay an extra $50,000 in taxes to receive an extra $200,000 in income than not pay the extra taxes and not get the extra income. Even with the extra taxes, I'd still be $150,000 ahead. |
See.. now that̢۪s what im talking about. A solid example of financial/mathematical logic and how it pertains to our current situation.
I agree :)
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08/04/2004 10:16:01 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by Riggs:
Terrorists that hate America and dont care who is in office. They could care less who holds office, all they want to do is kill innocent Americans to make a "statement".
No matter who is elected to office, these horrible actions will not stop. The hatred is not with those in office, its with who you are. |
And why do you think that is ? What do you feel that Americans have done to deserve that anger and wrath ? Who are you that they hate you so much ? |
Well I dont know. Why would someone fly planes into a building, or be a suicide bomber....I dont have a clue where that much hatred would come from. |
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08/04/2004 10:26:09 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by Riggs:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by Riggs:
Terrorists that hate America and dont care who is in office. They could care less who holds office, all they want to do is kill innocent Americans to make a "statement".
No matter who is elected to office, these horrible actions will not stop. The hatred is not with those in office, its with who you are. |
And why do you think that is ? What do you feel that Americans have done to deserve that anger and wrath ? Who are you that they hate you so much ? |
Well I dont know. Why would someone fly planes into a building, or be a suicide bomber....I dont have a clue where that much hatred would come from. |
***
Maybe it's not the American people that the terrorists hate so much (as the US gov't would like you to believe), but rather they hate our political and business leaders who have made policies over the past 50 years that they don't like. They are trying to undermine our country and it's economy the way we taught them to when they fought for the US and the the CIA as the Mujahadeen (sp?) against the Soviets. Just another example of "blowback," as the CIA would say.
Message edited by author 2004-08-04 22:28:34. |
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08/04/2004 11:13:33 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by Riggs:
Well I dont know. Why would someone fly planes into a building, or be a suicide bomber....I dont have a clue where that much hatred would come from. |
Did you know in Saudi Arabia (where most of the suicide bombers of 911 were from), woman are not aloud to show their face in public. Especially if they are unmarried. Men do not walk up to a woman to socialize or in some way engage in a courting ritual, everything is arranged and the women stay virgins until married (if not they are considered impure and unfit to wed).
For a man to get married the marriage has to be arranged and he "arranges" the bride from her father. This means that most men (because most men in Saudi are poor) do not have sex for long periods of time, if ever. The young men are not even able to drink as a release, as alcohol is illegal in there.
Can you imagine the sexual frustration that can build up from years and years of your young and adult life without sex, without any type of sexual contact from women? This often leads to men becoming homosexual. Intern that adds to they̢۪re suffering and shame.
Now imagine you have access to world media, especially the US. You see how our women walk around half naked in the summers; movies and magazines filled with sex and nudity are constant. Everywhere overall sex is a huge part of our society.
Just to point out one of the reasons, Riggs, one you don̢۪t see on CNN or Fox. |
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08/04/2004 11:47:47 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by Riggs:
Terrorists that hate America and dont care who is in office. They could care less who holds office, all they want to do is kill innocent Americans to make a "statement".
No matter who is elected to office, these horrible actions will not stop. The hatred is not with those in office, its with who you are. |
And why do you think that is ? What do you feel that Americans have done to deserve that anger and wrath ? Who are you that they hate you so much ? |
Well the current terrorist asshole issued a fatwa in 1996 because US troops occupied the land of the two holy places. Is it just me or does every city seem to be the holiest city in the Muslim world? Just like everyday is the holiest day of the year. |
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08/05/2004 12:06:37 AM · #72 |
Originally posted by thelsel:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by Riggs:
Terrorists that hate America and dont care who is in office. They could care less who holds office, all they want to do is kill innocent Americans to make a "statement".
No matter who is elected to office, these horrible actions will not stop. The hatred is not with those in office, its with who you are. |
And why do you think that is ? What do you feel that Americans have done to deserve that anger and wrath ? Who are you that they hate you so much ? |
Well the current terrorist asshole issued a fatwa in 1996 because US troops occupied the land of the two holy places. Is it just me or does every city seem to be the holiest city in the Muslim world? Just like everyday is the holiest day of the year. |
Guess you wouldn't mind if another country's troops occupied cities with important religious landmarks in the US then. I assume there's no oil to be guarded over in that region of Saudi Arabia, so then what are our troops doing over there anyway?
Message edited by author 2004-08-05 00:36:20. |
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08/05/2004 12:48:09 AM · #73 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Originally posted by thelsel:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by Riggs:
Terrorists that hate America and dont care who is in office. They could care less who holds office, all they want to do is kill innocent Americans to make a "statement".
No matter who is elected to office, these horrible actions will not stop. The hatred is not with those in office, its with who you are. |
And why do you think that is ? What do you feel that Americans have done to deserve that anger and wrath ? Who are you that they hate you so much ? |
Well the current terrorist asshole issued a fatwa in 1996 because US troops occupied the land of the two holy places. Is it just me or does every city seem to be the holiest city in the Muslim world? Just like everyday is the holiest day of the year. |
Guess you wouldn't mind if another country's troops occupied cities with important religious landmarks in the US then. I assume there's no oil to be guarded over in that region of Saudi Arabia, so then what are our troops doing over there anyway? |
The U.S. troops are in Saudi Arabia at the request of the Saudi Arabian government. |
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08/05/2004 12:52:58 AM · #74 |
Originally posted by frychikn:
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Originally posted by thelsel:
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by Riggs:
Terrorists that hate America and dont care who is in office. They could care less who holds office, all they want to do is kill innocent Americans to make a "statement".
No matter who is elected to office, these horrible actions will not stop. The hatred is not with those in office, its with who you are. |
And why do you think that is ? What do you feel that Americans have done to deserve that anger and wrath ? Who are you that they hate you so much ? |
Well the current terrorist asshole issued a fatwa in 1996 because US troops occupied the land of the two holy places. Is it just me or does every city seem to be the holiest city in the Muslim world? Just like everyday is the holiest day of the year. |
Guess you wouldn't mind if another country's troops occupied cities with important religious landmarks in the US then. I assume there's no oil to be guarded over in that region of Saudi Arabia, so then what are our troops doing over there anyway? |
The U.S. troops are in Saudi Arabia at the request of the Saudi Arabian government. |
Yes, because they have to protect the Saudi Royal family against being overthrown. The US is pulling all their troops out of the region and it's expected that their will be chaos there very shortly and even more instability in the region. The people over in Saudi Arabia hate their government, but the US support them even though they are human rights abusers. |
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08/05/2004 03:59:11 AM · #75 |
| Wow! Are such far-fetched defensive, offensive and make-an-excuse-of- some-kind-remarks typical of most Republicans? It sure seems to be of Bush. Despite the fact that the media owners seem to push for the supposedly conservative viewpoint all the time, Bush come off looking not conservative, but rash and confused most of the time. I'd be one [a Republican...I liked Ike;] if they were what they used to be. Now I hear Kerry standing for what Republicans show they are no longer interested in. I don't think our country can stand four more years of favoritism to the wealthy friends of the oil barrons. When I look at the lack of growth in my and my husband's retirement funds; don't tell me it's the fault of a past administration. "We can do better." |
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