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08/06/2004 08:04:57 PM · #151 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
I ask again: what do these veterans have to gain by making these statements that you think are "fake" or "untrue"? I'm certain they realized the intense public scrutiny and reaction the liberal media would have to their story, and yet they still felt strongly enough about getting the truth out there to forge ahead. What's in it for the 250 members of that organization? Why would they stir up controversy with "lies" and risk libel and slander lawsuits? They simply want to educate the public about SKerry's real military "adventures", and they have just as much right as anybody else in this country to tell their side of the story. |
The feud -- and yes, it is a personal feud between some of these men and Mr. Kerry -- is an old one. The story is very long and winding, suffice it to say that it involves the Nixon White House, the man's personal paranoia, and his administration's strong belief that any criticism against execution of the Vietnam war had to be crushed at all cost. (Hmmm... sounds familiar, doesn't it?)
If you believe that this is just some group of men that all of a sudden came together... well, I have a bridge you might be interested in buying. Republican partisans have their fingerprints all over this...
Here are some tidbits:
Founding members of the group include Rear Admiral Roy Hoffmann (retired), a famously aggressive commander of Swift boat forces; John E. O'Neill, a veteran and attorney who had long been a vociferous critic of Kerry's war record and who has been associated with the Nixon administration to counter Vietnam War protests against the war...
and...
[Swift Boat Veterans for Truth] is officially nonpartisan, but has several ties to Republican Party politics. Notably, its media representative, Merrie Spaeth, was a Reagan administration press officer and an advisor to Ken Starr in the Clinton impeachment.
You can read more here. (This is a great website for information -- no matter which side of the isle you fall on.)
Note that, over the years, the Boston Globe has done a great job of documenting many of these charges and, at every turn, Mr. Kerry has been cleared of every allegation.
Eddy, I would urge you: 1. Stop buying into false allegations, and 2. Stop spreading what have been proven to be blatant lies -- which, at root, are nothing more than personal attacks.
As for your rhetorical question about Vietnam veterans having film footage of themselves in theatre: Well, the practice of memorializing one's deeds is quite common: just ask the MPs at Abu Ghraib what they were doing with cameras.
Originally posted by EddyG:
And answer this: why won't SKerry release his military record if he is so proud of what he did in Vietnam? |
Mr. Kerry has released all of his military records, they are here for all to see.
I have served, and I agree with Mr. McCain: It is "dishonest and dishonorable," and Mr. Bush should repudiate it. Eddy, do yourself a favor, and listen to what some conservative pundits recognize: this has the potential to blow up on Mr. Bush's face, BIG TIME. Because, while rabid Bush supporters are eating it up, the average person will recognize it as a personal smear campaign.
......
Flash,
Thanks for your response... I can't reply at the moment, as I want to give it the attention it deserves.
Message edited by author 2004-08-06 20:09:22.
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08/06/2004 08:49:08 PM · #152 |
Originally posted by bdobe:
As for your rhetorical question about Vietnam veterans having film footage of themselves in theatre: Well, the practice of memorializing one's deeds is quite common: just ask the MPs at Abu Ghraib what they were doing with cameras. |
Umm, this is the 21st century. I would expect it today. Vietnam was over 30 years ago. How many military personnel carried around 8mm film cameras to record and re-enact events back then? My guess is not too many.
Puh-leeaasse! Those are the records he himself has chosen to release. There is no guarantee that those are all of the documents in his military jacket. For example, there are no medical documents that explain how and under what circumstances he received the wounds that resulted in his Purple Heart medals and who (what qualified medical service personnel) verified and described the wounds into those medical records.
bdobe, I urge you to consider that there are an awful lot of Vietnam vets who do not support having Kerry as a commander-in-chief and that they aren't going to such great lengths to make this point because of some personal feud between O'Neill and Kerry. They served our country and have just as much a right to be heard as McCain. Some see Kerry as a "traitor" (a photograph of Kerry hangs in the Vietnamese Communist War Remnants Museum, formerly known as the "War Crimes Museum", in Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon) in a room dedicated to the anti-war activists who helped the Vietnamese Communists win the Vietnam War). And some even want him Disqualified from National Office for providing "aid and comfort" to the enemy in time of war in violation of Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment.
Message edited by author 2004-08-06 21:02:58. |
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08/06/2004 08:54:39 PM · #153 |
I'd like to see all of Kerry's vietnam home movies unedited and then form my opinion of who is telling the truth.
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08/06/2004 09:01:01 PM · #154 |
It kicks ass to have someone else dedicated to spreading the good word even through much adversity.
Thanks bdobe :)
I actually had yet to see that site but it was on my list of sites to check out at work. I was also unaware Kerry had all his military documents on his site, nice.
Also, in that subject, considering this article and that 2 of the guys I work with who both were in the military say they both have full copies of their military records, it is odd that Mr. Bush's records are still a subject of controversy.
And another thing to those who for whatever reason think Bush is "fit for command", why would you think, a spoiled rich kid who dodged the Vietnam draft, was given a free pass all through college and his first companies, and before being president, spent a whopping 5 years in government office (WHERE HE EXECUTED MORE MEN THAN ANY OTHER GOVENER EVER) would be fit for command?
HIS DAD WAS IN GREAT POWER HIS WHOLE LIFE AND THEN PRESIDENT. Don’t you think he got just a little special treatment thought the years?
Message edited by author 2004-08-06 21:02:23. |
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08/06/2004 09:29:59 PM · #155 |
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08/06/2004 10:07:35 PM · #156 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
How many military personnel carried around 8mm film cameras to record and re-enact events back then? My guess is not too many.
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You guess wrong. Lots of GI's recorded themselves in exactly the same way in Viet Nam. Cameras - good ones - were dirt cheap over there and were very popular.
Also, congratulations on finally showing your true stripes in this thread - that you are indeed dedicated to the out and out smearing of John Kerry's record, regardless of what the facts might be.
The sour aftertaste of your previous disingenuousness about 'merely trying to provide information' and not purporting to present this whole stinking pile of dingo kidneys as "unbiased" has now been replaced by the minty-fresh flavor of your refreshing malice. :D
Not that there's anything wrong with malice - Lord knows I am just as strong-willed from the left. :)
Message edited by author 2004-08-06 22:37:24. |
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08/06/2004 10:23:53 PM · #157 |
The looney left rides their wrecked horses into self oblivion. here you have a party that has been taken over by the radical left. Do you not see where this is going. These are socialist and people who hate America.
The strength of this country rests with our constitution. The left wants to eradicate it. This will leave us a socialist country with one inferior version of one product. There will not be the competition that exists now of so many different cameras or products.
Is this the life the looney left aspires. No thank you. Communism and socialism have proven untenable..not a place which have the choices we have. Not only that, America remains the exquisite financial force of the globe, no one else comes near us. We feed more people than all other countries combined.
It is the freedom that keeps us at the top. Freedom of commerce, expression, etc. The looney left hates America, It hates God and hates everything, all principles upon which this country was founded.
I can not believe that anyone in their right mind would want a kerry, an Edwards or A moore in charge of this Countries' defense. Yea, Kerry will handle the war with more sensitivity. What does this mean...it means he will negotiate with the terroist. Frankly, Kerry scares the hell out of me. He is such a phoney.
I want no part of a socialist government. I want to breathe air and enjoy the freedom of the USA. |
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08/06/2004 10:40:28 PM · #158 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
The looney left rides their wrecked horses into self oblivion. here you have a party that has been taken over by the radical left. Do you not see where this is going. These are socialist and people who hate America.
The strength of this country rests with our constitution. The left wants to eradicate it. This will leave us a socialist country with one inferior version of one product. There will not be the competition that exists now of so many different cameras or products.
Is this the life the looney left aspires. No thank you. Communism and socialism have proven untenable..not a place which have the choices we have. Not only that, America remains the exquisite financial force of the globe, no one else comes near us. We feed more people than all other countries combined.
It is the freedom that keeps us at the top. Freedom of commerce, expression, etc. The looney left hates America, It hates God and hates everything, all principles upon which this country was founded.
I can not believe that anyone in their right mind would want a kerry, an Edwards or A moore in charge of this Countries' defense. Yea, Kerry will handle the war with more sensitivity. What does this mean...it means he will negotiate with the terroist. Frankly, Kerry scares the hell out of me. He is such a phoney.
I want no part of a socialist government. I want to breathe air and enjoy the freedom of the USA. |
Is that Pat Robbertson I hear? Wait no.. I think its Jerry Falwell..
What age does Alzheimer’s disease start to kick in? |
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08/06/2004 10:48:27 PM · #159 |
You are afraid of communism, socialism; you think Democrats hate this country and our constitution - and you call us "looney" ?!?
I don't know what you are smoking - but don't hog it it all - I want some of that stuff too! :D
BTW, China feeds more people than we do, all by itself.
And if you like to breathe clean air, I hope you are enjoying the benefits of that filthy socialist organization called the EPA, because they help keep that air clean.
Those magnificent industries churning through that Holy Grail of yours - the All Mighty American dollar (in the toilet, thanks to Bush, BTW ) are currently in the business of polluting that nice clean air just as fast as they can. You know, to keep America free. :D |
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08/06/2004 10:48:52 PM · #160 |
I take it by your tone that you do want socialism. Good enjoy it. I want no part of a party which embraces Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Kennedy, Tom daschel, Clintons and the rest of these twisted heads.
Look at the company you are keeping with demented Moore heading your banner. If you want to identify wuth these people go ahead. They do not represent the best interest of this country. |
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08/06/2004 10:50:09 PM · #161 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
I take it by your tone that you do want socialism. Good enjoy it. I want no part of a party which embraces Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Kennedy, Tom daschel, Clintons and the rest of these twisted heads.
Look at the company you are keeping with demented Moore heading your banner. If you want to identify wuth these people go ahead. They do not represent the best interest of this country. |
Your repeated name-calling only strengthens your arguments.
-Terry
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08/06/2004 10:57:59 PM · #162 |
I find it amazing that people can be so pro-anyone.
The name calling and demonstrated sense of determined hostility only proves that there is nowhere left to run and hide to when truths come out - sort of a wild animal trapped in the corner effect.
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08/06/2004 11:06:03 PM · #163 |
This is not name calling. Look at these people and ask yourself do you really want to identify your lofty ideaks with. Sharpton is in my area and I witnessed how his lies ruined the lives of the Pagonas.
I know, what you like are people like Clinton, Daschel, Sharpton etc, because they are so erudite. Remember how the media fell in love with Clinton and Gore. They spoke in sentences. The left loves to have these con man address their deep insecurities and what do they give you? They give you nothing. Just flowery phrases which add up to nothing. They teach you to hate America. They teach you that it was Bush who did 9/11. They fill your heads with lies and fill you with hatred. Enjoy, you deserve it if this is your dream.
I am not name calling when I refer to the left as the looney left. These people are still embracing Castro. If this is the company you want to be identified with it is okay with me... but it is on the fringe.
The French were on the take as well as the Germans and Russians. The UN is run by dictators and look at the scandal when they spoon fed from Sadam into their pockets. Kerry wants to enlist the help of these country. Do we not realize that it is the government of these countries and the UN that has been screwing the US for so long.
I mean, just how much research do you folks do into these subjects and can not you see right from wrong? Yeah, I know Viva Socialism. |
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08/06/2004 11:12:17 PM · #164 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
This is not name calling. Look at these people and ask yourself do you really want to identify your lofty ideaks with. Sharpton is in my area and I witnessed how his lies ruined the lives of the Pagonas.
I know, what you like are people like Clinton, Daschel, Sharpton etc, because they are so erudite. Remember how the media fell in love with Clinton and Gore. They spoke in sentences. The left loves to have these con man address their deep insecurities and what do they give you? They give you nothing. Just flowery phrases which add up to nothing. They teach you to hate America. They teach you that it was Bush who did 9/11. They fill your heads with lies and fill you with hatred. Enjoy, you deserve it if this is your dream.
I am not name calling when I refer to the left as the looney left. These people are still embracing Castro. If this is the company you want to be identified with it is okay with me... but it is on the fringe.
The French were on the take as well as the Germans and Russians. The UN is run by dictators and look at the scandal when they spoon fed from Sadam into their pockets. Kerry wants to enlist the help of these country. Do we not realize that it is the government of these countries and the UN that has been screwing the US for so long.
I mean, just how much research do you folks do into these subjects and can not you see right from wrong? Yeah, I know Viva Socialism. |
haha ok.. your just skrewing around with us now right? |
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08/06/2004 11:24:23 PM · #165 |
Are you for real. We feed countries around the globe. We are the only super power and you can check these stats simply in energy consumption. We are that big. But the left wants no oil drilling. Better to have others drill in their yards.
The concern with Global Warming and fresh air is more like an anal preoccupation. Do you really think that man is that important in the interplanetary scheme of this vast cosmos. What arrogance we have that we can affect the weather. Look the sun will burn until it burns itself out. In the interim ir will experience a shower of sun-spot We are , that will play havoc with the weather.We are like ants in the scheme of this universe.
Yes, the loonet left scares me, but I am not affraid of communism or socialism. they are substandards. Show me where they work.
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08/06/2004 11:36:32 PM · #166 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
This is not name calling. Look at these people and ask yourself do you really want to identify your lofty ideaks with. Sharpton is in my area and I witnessed how his lies ruined the lives of the Pagonas.
I know, what you like are people like Clinton, Daschel, Sharpton etc, because they are so erudite. Remember how the media fell in love with Clinton and Gore. They spoke in sentences. The left loves to have these con man address their deep insecurities and what do they give you? They give you nothing. Just flowery phrases which add up to nothing. They teach you to hate America. They teach you that it was Bush who did 9/11. They fill your heads with lies and fill you with hatred. Enjoy, you deserve it if this is your dream.
I am not name calling when I refer to the left as the looney left. These people are still embracing Castro. If this is the company you want to be identified with it is okay with me... but it is on the fringe.
The French were on the take as well as the Germans and Russians. The UN is run by dictators and look at the scandal when they spoon fed from Sadam into their pockets. Kerry wants to enlist the help of these country. Do we not realize that it is the government of these countries and the UN that has been screwing the US for so long.
I mean, just how much research do you folks do into these subjects and can not you see right from wrong? Yeah, I know Viva Socialism. |
Who said I am identifying with Sharpton? I think Sharpton is an extremist whose views represent no more than a very small percentage of Americans. It is no more valid to assume that I as a liberal support Sharpton, then it would be for me to assume that you as a conservative support openly racist Tennessee Congressional candidate James Hart.
-Terry
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08/07/2004 12:50:51 AM · #167 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
This is not name calling. Look at these people and ask yourself do you really want to identify your lofty ideaks with. Sharpton is in my area and I witnessed how his lies ruined the lives of the Pagonas.
I know, what you like are people like Clinton, Daschel, Sharpton etc, because they are so erudite. Remember how the media fell in love with Clinton and Gore. They spoke in sentences. The left loves to have these con man address their deep insecurities and what do they give you? They give you nothing. Just flowery phrases which add up to nothing. They teach you to hate America. They teach you that it was Bush who did 9/11. They fill your heads with lies and fill you with hatred. Enjoy, you deserve it if this is your dream.
I am not name calling when I refer to the left as the looney left. These people are still embracing Castro. If this is the company you want to be identified with it is okay with me... but it is on the fringe.
The French were on the take as well as the Germans and Russians. The UN is run by dictators and look at the scandal when they spoon fed from Sadam into their pockets. Kerry wants to enlist the help of these country. Do we not realize that it is the government of these countries and the UN that has been screwing the US for so long.
I mean, just how much research do you folks do into these subjects and can not you see right from wrong? Yeah, I know Viva Socialism. |
Who said I am identifying with Sharpton? I think Sharpton is an extremist whose views represent no more than a very small percentage of Americans. It is no more valid to assume that I as a liberal support Sharpton, then it would be for me to assume that you as a conservative support openly racist Tennessee Congressional candidate James Hart.
-Terry |
You forget the obvious. We do not walk hand in hand with the right wings kooks. The left is parading the extreme specimens but hey, if you are happy go for it. It is just that I am not ready for the liberal agenda. The extreme left are the one's that yell the loudest and they have risen to the front of the party. This is not what America wants and this is why the other party bears the majority. This side does not want socialism nor do we want to be taken over by the terroist. |
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08/07/2004 10:09:58 AM · #168 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
It is the freedom that keeps us at the top. Freedom of commerce, expression, etc. The looney left hates America, It hates God and hates everything, all principles upon which this country was founded. |
You argue for freedom while at the same time wanting increased restrictions put in place. It is this sort of cognitive dissonance or doublethink that just boggles my mind. Freedom needs to be protected - vote for the Patriot Act II. |
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08/07/2004 10:46:58 AM · #169 |
Ooops! Another update!!
One of presidential candidate John Kerry's Vietnam war comrades, who had appeared to back off his criticism of Kerry's war record, recanted on Friday and said, yes, in fact he did question whether the U.S. senator deserved his medals.
George Elliott appeared to back off an earlier affidavit in which he suggested Kerry did not deserve the Silver Star. In the affidavit, he said, "I was never informed that he had simply shot a wounded, fleeing Viet Cong in the back."
In Friday's Boston Globe, Elliott was quoted as saying: "It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words. I'm the one in trouble here."
Elliott told the Globe Kerry did deserve the medal.
Inundated with calls to verify the statement, Elliott grew media shy and said through his wife he would not talk. Earlier in the day, Mrs. Elliott said her husband was playing golf and would call back when he returned in the afternoon.
Elliott later issued another affidavit -- witnessed and notarized -- this time saying he was misquoted by the Globe and reaffirming his belief that Kerry has "not been honest about what happened in Vietnam."
Elliott also wrote: "Had I known the facts, I would not have recommended Kerry for the Silver Star for simply pursuing and dispatching a single wounded, fleeing Viet Cong."
Martin Baron, editor of The Boston Globe, said in a statement: "Regarding George Elliott's statements on John Kerry's military service, which ran in the Globe this morning, the Globe stands by the article. The quotes attributed to Mr. Elliott were on the record and absolutely accurate."
Looks like Karl Rove turned the screws on Mr. Elliot.
Does anybody here actually now trust this man or these people?
Message edited by author 2004-08-07 10:49:32. |
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08/07/2004 10:54:29 AM · #170 |
Your logic escapes me. This is the only country that practices freedom. This is a different war...the enemy is in your backyard. Is there something here that is not understood? Suppose you and friends buy a big building to live in. Say all friends and say this unit houses 100 tenents. Someone in the group goes psychotic and kills a child in the building. Your reply is hey, I am not going to question anybody, nor will I restrict any traffic into my apartment. A second child is killed and now who are going to trust supposing that you too have children.
Look, whether you want to admit it or not, this is a war with fiends who are ready and willing to kill themselves in order to kill you. They hate your guts and they are well versed in their determination.
The stakes are very high, but the minority party is so intent on gaining power that they make believe that 9/11 never took place. They considered it like a fluke.
Also, when I refer to the looney left, I am addressing the big mouth extremists: Sharpton, Jackson, Gore, Hillary because Clinton had more sense than to identify with the extreme left, the Nancy Pollazi or however you spell her name.
There is nothing that will appease the looney left because in their mind America is the culprit and they feel that we deserved 9/11. Not only that, they even concoct that Bush himself caused and new about 9/11/ I mean, we are grown men, do you really want these people to lead you and your party?
Look, I was a flower child and did Woodstock. After I turned 30th I became a conservative...but I never allow any politician to guide my mind. I always examine what leading Republicans say because I take nothing for granted, especially lies and they all lie.
What floors me are the faulty basis which the looney left is using to win power. I examine the arguments and they are talking to the dumb, because anybody with half a brain can see mongering.
Yes, we are fighting for our very survival. All freedoms are restricted and placed in check. Think: they are using our freedom against us. They know that we are so spoiled that we will give into their hands and they forsee America undersneath The islamic Radical sword. Is this what you want? |
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08/07/2004 11:05:32 AM · #171 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
What arrogance we have that we can affect the weather. |
Tell me , graphicfunk - do you have a background in science?
Do you have any credentials to address the thermodynamic effects of CO2, ozone, and methane on global temperatures?
Because there are plenty of very, very intelligent politically-neutral people who have spent their lives doing hard, objective science looking at chemistry, physics, and earth sciences who say we ARE affecting the weather.
In fact, it is a scientific immutable fact that when CO2 levels rise, the greenhouse effect takes place. Records of atmospheric CO2 levels have been retrieved going back for tens of millions of years.
CO2 levels have gone through the roof only as the industrial revolution took place. As they keep going higher and higher, it is a scientific certainty that global warming will take place. A CERTAINTY.
Look at Venus and you will see the effects of the greenhouse effect.
So, sir, the way I see it - it is attitudes which blithely dismiss hard science as a nuisance to a political philosophy which are, indeed, "arrogant". |
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08/07/2004 11:06:42 AM · #172 |
Originally posted by gingerbaker:
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
What arrogance we have that we can affect the weather. |
Tell me , graphicfunk - do you have a background in science?
Do you have any credentials to address the thermodynamic effects of CO2, ozone, and methane on global temperatures?
Because there are plenty of very, very intelligent politically-neutral people who have spent their lives doing hard, objective science looking at chemistry, physics, and earth sciences who say we ARE affecting the weather.
In fact, it is a scientific immutable fact that when CO2 levels rise, the greenhouse effect takes place. Records of atmospheric CO2 levels have been retrieved going back for tens of millions of years.
CO2 levels have gone through the roof only as the industrial revolution took place. As they keep going higher and higher, it is a scientific certainty that global warming will take place. A CERTAINTY.
Look at Venus and you will see the effects of the greenhouse effect.
So, sir, the way I see it - it is attitudes which blithely dismiss hard science as a nuisance to a political philosophy which are, indeed, "arrogant". |
Aha..you got me there. No I have no degrees on physics...but then I have a good knowledge of Astronomy and I do know that the sun effectuates periods of internal convulitions which create black spots. This cyclic phenomena has a devastating effect on global weather. Global warming is being addressed by a handful of scientist who do not have data that dates back thousand of years. They can only guessed, but not rightfully conclude.
My contention is that mother nature has not been recorded for any sufficient time to reach such asinine edicts. You must remeber, many scientist are dead wrong. You see Venus spins in the opposite way to all the other planets and they could not even get this together until most recent. Global warming is a political argument because you have reliable scientist to oppose these theories. believe who you want, but my contention is that we are too insignificant in the design of the cosmos. Can we make rain? Can we control hurricanes? Can we control weather? And yet you believe that we can bring down the house. Do you really consider yourself this important in the vast face of the firmanent? What will you say when the Sun cools and loses its heat, are you going to say we caused it. The argument is political because it is the Republicans who are to blame. And Venus, the scientic community expended great effort that it was spinning the same direction of the other palnets. The only thing that explains it is galactic occurance. We are subject to more external control than you would like to admit. And we need millions of years to determine reliable records, unless someone wants to find or create date to suit a belief.
Message edited by author 2004-08-07 11:36:57. |
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08/07/2004 11:26:15 AM · #173 |
This really has nothing to do with photography, but....
Neither candidate or party for that matter is good enough to run our country. Why do we always have to pick the better of two evils at these elections.
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08/07/2004 11:27:02 AM · #174 |
Originally posted by gingerbaker:
Tell me , graphicfunk - do you have a background in science?
Do you have any credentials to address the thermodynamic effects of CO2, ozone, and methane on global temperatures?
Because there are plenty of very, very intelligent politically-neutral people who have spent their lives doing hard, objective science looking at chemistry, physics, and earth sciences who say we ARE affecting the weather.
In fact, it is a scientific immutable fact that when CO2 levels rise, the greenhouse effect takes place. Records of atmospheric CO2 levels have been retrieved going back for tens of millions of years.
CO2 levels have gone through the roof only as the industrial revolution took place. As they keep going higher and higher, it is a scientific certainty that global warming will take place. A CERTAINTY.
Look at Venus and you will see the effects of the greenhouse effect.
So, sir, the way I see it - it is attitudes which blithely dismiss hard science as a nuisance to a political philosophy which are, indeed, "arrogant". |
I do. And I know for every expert that says we are ruining the environment there is one that says we aren't. I also know that one large forest fire or one volcano blast can do more damage to the preciuous ozone layer then we could ever imagine doing with our cars and hair spray.
Message edited by author 2004-08-07 11:31:06.
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08/07/2004 11:46:12 AM · #175 |
It is very funny to see fanatics expose their beliefs with scientific rubbish. The weather is such a cosmic topic that there are arrogant pin head scientist to tell me that they have explored and conquered immutable facts. The ozone also transmutes, it shifts and it moves and it separates. Another misunderstood concept. You must remember that the actual pattern of our solar system was known 500 BC and yet scientist argued the earth was flat until Galileo.
I hate to break it to you, but we are much more insignificant than you think. |
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