Master's Free Study - DPChallenge Forums

09/08/2010 02:09:38 PM · #76

Originally posted by cutout:

great idea
only every one with a average of 7 is aloud to vote
have fun

And only people with an average of 6 or higher can even see the photos! That would be awesome!

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

09/08/2010 03:05:37 PM · #77

I like the idea that only those eligible to enter can vote. All can view (sorry Don) and comment but only those who can enter can vote. That is consistent with free studies in a way in that only members can enter and vote. Might make it even more challenging if you know you're truly competing with your peers.

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

09/08/2010 03:43:45 PM · #78

Originally posted by Melethia:

wow! What a great idea! I wonder if the outcome would be significantly different with this in place...

What an interesting experiment that would be.

09/08/2010 03:52:40 PM · #79

Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by Melethia:
I like the idea that only those eligible to enter can vote. All can view (sorry Don) and comment but only those who can enter can vote. That is consistent with free studies in a way in that only members can enter and vote. Might make it even more challenging if you know you're truly competing with your peers.

wow! What a great idea! I wonder if the outcome would be significantly different with this in place...

What an interesting experiment that would be.

For what it's worth, we can already see that, for every challenge, with "average, participants" v "average, non-participants". So we could keep the voting nominal and still see what would have happened if...

R.

Melethia

Canon EOS-80D

09/08/2010 04:00:09 PM · #80

Ah but the idea is to thwart the urge to pander to the masses; to try to impress the other Masters.

09/08/2010 04:13:18 PM · #81

Originally posted by Melethia:

Ah but the idea is to thwart the urge to pander to the masses; to try to impress the other Masters.

Panderers pandering to panderers. I feel like chewing on bamboo for some reason...

09/08/2010 04:14:33 PM · #82

Seriously, though, I hope they do use this suggestion, and also use my suggestions. We do 3 challenges a week, after all! Plus special challenges. Surely there's room for diversity at the expense of Yellow V.

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

09/08/2010 04:17:21 PM · #83

Originally posted by Melethia:

Ah but the idea is to thwart the urge to pander to the masses; to try to impress the other Masters.

I guess that makes sense, on its own terms at least...

R.

pointandshoot

Canon EOS-10D

09/08/2010 04:23:39 PM · #84

To make the Masters a 'real' challenge I would like to see the 4th place finisher stripped of all his/her DPC ribbons. All virtual traces of the member's past removed. They have to start all over again.

This twist might add some interesting incentives and table turning. Some members would carefully consider the importance of trying for first, and may instead enter that POS artyfoto they never considered entering, while others, (myself included) would aim for a high score, hoping to get 4th place.

Let's play for the virtual pink slip.
Â¿quiÃ©n tiene los huevos mÃ¡s grandes?

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

09/08/2010 04:24:29 PM · #85

If we have a MFS we could have a concomitant study for people like Don...Crotchety III. :P

SteveJ

Canon EOS-7D

09/08/2010 04:34:20 PM · #86

I've been thinking about this matter since the last Masters challenge, I didn't agree with it then and I don't agree with it now.

I've read the same old lines about members only challenges as opposed to open challenges and how if you pay your dues, you can enter the members challenges. Perhaps, if we are to have Masters on the site as a permenant group, then they should be paying more for their selective 'elitist' Masters Challenges, as the ribbons awarded for challenges can't be cheapened by non-ribbon winners having their own challenge.

One rule for one group, no chance for the others??

VitaminB

Nikon D800

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

09/08/2010 05:05:31 PM · #87

Originally posted by SteveJ:

I thought I remembered there being a challenge for non-ribbon winners before, but I couldnt find it after searching yesterday.

I would have no problem having both a 'Masters Free Study', and a 'First Time Ribbon Free Study'.

ETA: Just found it. Low Tech - Extra Rules - You can only submit to this if you have not earned any ribbons.

Message edited by author 2010-09-12 10:41:46.

SteveJ

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

09/08/2010 05:08:43 PM · #88

Originally posted by VitaminB:

Originally posted by SteveJ:
I've been thinking about this matter since the last Masters challenge, I didn't agree with it then and I don't agree with it now.

I've read the same old lines about members only challenges as opposed to open challenges and how if you pay your dues, you can enter the members challenges. Perhaps, if we are to have Masters on the site as a permenant group, then they should be paying more for their selective 'elitist' Masters Challenges, as the ribbons awarded for challenges can't be cheapened by non-ribbon winners having their own challenge.

One rule for one group, no chance for the others??

I thought I remembered there being a challenge for non-ribbon winners before, but I couldnt find it after searching yesterday.

I would have no problem having both a 'Masters Free Study', and a 'First Time Ribbon Free Study'.

I completely agree with your suggestion. I feel that a 'MSF' is pandering to a minority who are members just like the rest of us. Does winning a virtual ribbon make them 'Masters'??

Olympus 7-14mm f/4.0 Zuiko Digital Zoom

09/08/2010 05:34:05 PM · #89

I'm having a hard time understanding why some of y'all are getting so bent out of shape over this.

I am a founder of a social, game-playing organization, www.eliters.org, where each league within the overall group (spades league, gin rummy league, backgammon league, etc) has, every month, certain field-restricted competitions: the Tournament of Champions (you have to have won a tourney the previous month month to play), the Marathon Day Championship (you have to have finished first or second in at least one of the marathon tournaments the day preceding, we host a marathon day every month), The Player Appreciation Tourney (you have to have competed in at least a specific number of tournaments the previous month to be eligible), a New Members Tourney (have to have joined in the previous month) and so forth and so on.

Nobody complains about these tournaments. I mean, NOBODY. And they all have tangible bonuses donated by the league that go to the top finishers. Not all tournaments, in fact not that many of them, even HAVE bonuses...

In DPC, we have a history of occasional, field-limited challenges; the masters challenges and the Commenters challenges come to mind. For the latter, you had to have made more comments than you had received to qualify; for the former you had to have won at least two ribbons.

What's the big deal, people? Why is this so bad? I can't think, offhand, of a sport or game that DOESN'T have certain tournaments, matches, whatever, that you have to qualify to get into. Why is it so bad when we do it (very rarely) at DPC? What's so WRONG about incentivizing performance? What's so WRONG about telling the best amongst us, as measured by challenge performance, that we appreciate them?

Since when has it become the norm that recognizing performance is equated with "pandering" to it?

R.

Message edited by author 2010-09-08 17:34:26.

one2one

Olympus E-5

09/08/2010 05:38:16 PM · #90

Let's categorize everyone on this site into groups of three and have challenges specifically for them. Nobody will be left out that way.

Message edited by author 2010-09-08 18:05:40.

bohemka

Nikon D700

Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX Aspherical DG HSM for Nikon

09/08/2010 05:39:02 PM · #91

Originally posted by Melethia:

Just out of curiousity, what is stopping the Masters from doing this in a Free Study?

Because Yanko would then call the winner one of the usual ribbon hogs? Not sure, really, but I think he's just bent because under the initial recommendation of two ribbons in each color he'd be on the outside looking in. Hear that, Yanko? You want in? Get your water drop on.

Edit: Sincerely, create limited-admission challenges for whomever, just don't take an option away from the rest of us. I enjoy failing in multiple categories. Do not take that away from me.

Message edited by author 2010-09-08 17:51:54.

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM

09/08/2010 05:55:40 PM · #92

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

If we have a MFS we could have a concomitant study for people like Don...Crotchety III. :P

I'm not crotchety. I'm hilarious.

SteveJ

Canon EOS-7D

09/08/2010 06:01:22 PM · #93

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Why is it so bad when we do it (very rarely) at DPC? What's so WRONG about incentivizing performance? What's so WRONG about telling the best amongst us, as measured by challenge performance, that we appreciate them?

Since when has it become the norm that recognizing performance is equated with "pandering" to it?

R.

An elitist comment if I ever heard one! Sorry, I am humbled to be in the presence of such Masters who are better then me and any other member! Guess I'm wasting my time even bothering to enter challenges when there are so many who are better or best!

If you need an ego boost, go for it!

09/08/2010 06:12:47 PM · #94

Originally posted by SteveJ:

Have you ever had kids? A son or daughter that played on a little league team, perhaps? If s/he was was particularly skilled, there'd have come a time when s/he was being considered for the all-star team.

At that time, did you tell (or would you have told) your child that these all-star competitions are inherently elitist, that s/he was not allowed to participate or could only participate under the wet blanket of your explicit disapproval?

Are we engaged in some sort of a social experiment here? I respectfully submit that if enough members feel that this is the case, then we should do away with the scoring and the ribbons altogether, and move towards the Flickr model, which based on vapid praise-for-participation.

Speaking for myself, personally, I'm a little peeved that you apparently believe that since I am in favor of a particular time-honored, long-standing competition model, that I consider myself in any way better than, or superior to, you because I have more virtual ribbons. I assure you it isn't true.

R.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

09/08/2010 06:15:49 PM · #95

Originally posted by SteveJ:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Why is it so bad when we do it (very rarely) at DPC? What's so WRONG about incentivizing performance? What's so WRONG about telling the best amongst us, as measured by challenge performance, that we appreciate them?

Since when has it become the norm that recognizing performance is equated with "pandering" to it?

R.

An elitist comment if I ever heard one! Sorry, I am humbled to be in the presence of such Masters who are better then me and any other member! Guess I'm wasting my time even bothering to enter challenges when there are so many who are better or best!

If you need an ego boost, go for it!

Can I ask an honest question? I'm not looking to be snarky or anything. Do you even want to win a ribbon? It doesn't seem like one of your goals and that you enter challenges rather for the feedback. Don would be the same. Of do you want to win a ribbon but only on your own terms? Somehow you hope to bend the tastes of the site to your will because they are otherwise missing the real photography.

If winning ribbons means nothing and, in fact, is a mark of "the elitists" who pander to the crowd, then who the hell cares if a challenge gets run like this? Just don't take part since it doesn't speak to you.

I don't get it.

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

09/08/2010 06:21:26 PM · #96

Perhaps some of the comments made were in jest, but I honestly cannot support some of the proposals made. While I have no problems with a Masters' Challenge, I do have a problem with limiting voting and viewing to the participants.

This to me truly does smack of elitism, as it suggests that not only am I a poor photographer, but that I am unable to recognize a good image when I see one. Best I no longer frequent any art museums and other similar venues, as I am seemingly too naive to appreciate anything contained therein.

Ray

Message edited by author 2010-09-08 18:24:23.

K3Master

Pentax K-3

Pentax D-FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW

09/08/2010 06:23:41 PM · #97

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Perhaps some of the comments made were in jest, but I honestly cannot support some of the proposals made. While I have no problems with a Masters' Challenge, I do have a problem with limiting voting andeven viewing to the participants.

This to me truly does smack of elitism, as it suggests that not only am I a poor photographer, but that I am unable to recognize a good image when I see one. Best I no longer frequent any art museums and other similar venues, as I am seemingly too naive to appreciate anything contained therein.

Ray

I think 99% of the proposals of the "only let 7+ average viewers vote" and the like were 100% sarcasm.