| Author | Thread |
|
|
10/12/2011 05:55:18 PM · #176 |
Originally posted by myqyl:
Much of this thread seems to have degenerated into a "discussion" of if the Biblical standard of morality is relevant in modern society. I'll bite :
Biblically speaking premarital sex is a bad idea. Realistically speaking, premarital sex makes a guy happy for couple of minutes and potentially ruins a woman's life, as well as the life of the offspring that may result from the sex. "Adulterous thoughts" are a gateway drug to premarital sex. Hence lustful thoughts can conceivably (pun-intended) destroy at least two lives, while making some guy smile for a few minutes.
Aside from being Biblical, it seems like a pretty clear "modern society" choice to me...
... but that's just me |
Wisdom. You don't need scripture to know the risks. You also don't mention STDs which can be permanent and cause irreversible damage. I just read two weeks ago, interestingly, that the majority of throat cancer in men now comes from oral sex (and HPV). 25% of 14-19 year-old American girls have a STD. |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 06:05:07 PM · #177 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by myqyl:
Much of this thread seems to have degenerated into a "discussion" of if the Biblical standard of morality is relevant in modern society. I'll bite :
Biblically speaking premarital sex is a bad idea. Realistically speaking, premarital sex makes a guy happy for couple of minutes and potentially ruins a woman's life, as well as the life of the offspring that may result from the sex. "Adulterous thoughts" are a gateway drug to premarital sex. Hence lustful thoughts can conceivably (pun-intended) destroy at least two lives, while making some guy smile for a few minutes.
Aside from being Biblical, it seems like a pretty clear "modern society" choice to me...
... but that's just me |
Wisdom. You don't need scripture to know the risks. |
If you don't think the preceding "opinion" is informed by religion, you are either naive or disingenuous, or indulging in the same game of speaking in absolutes.
Message edited by author 2011-10-12 18:26:47. |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 06:18:37 PM · #178 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by myqyl:
Much of this thread seems to have degenerated into a "discussion" of if the Biblical standard of morality is relevant in modern society. I'll bite :
Biblically speaking premarital sex is a bad idea. Realistically speaking, premarital sex makes a guy happy for couple of minutes and potentially ruins a woman's life, as well as the life of the offspring that may result from the sex. "Adulterous thoughts" are a gateway drug to premarital sex. Hence lustful thoughts can conceivably (pun-intended) destroy at least two lives, while making some guy smile for a few minutes.
Aside from being Biblical, it seems like a pretty clear "modern society" choice to me...
... but that's just me |
Wisdom. You don't need scripture to know the risks. You also don't mention STDs which can be permanent and cause irreversible damage. I just read two weeks ago, interestingly, that the majority of throat cancer in men now comes from oral sex (and HPV). 25% of 14-19 year-old American girls have a STD. |
WHAT??? premarital sex makes a guy happy for a couple of minutes and that's all?... So after marriage sex is what? A beautiful, loving exchange between two people? But before marriage? Oh no, it's a guy getting his goods? Myqyl, what magic thing does a marriage license imbue on the sex act? You say it's all about what the guy gets, is it even possible for a woman to enjoy sex? (pre marriage or not)
Premarital sex (or sex without marriage) does not necessarily mean promiscuity, disrespect, disease etc. Why is the life of the issue of premarital sex ruined? How is it ruined? What does that even mean?
Doc, explain the wisdom in this please. |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 06:27:42 PM · #179 |
| Sorry, you won't find wisdom here, just the choir singing to itself. |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 06:28:51 PM · #180 |
Originally posted by myqyl:
Much of this thread seems to have degenerated into a "discussion" of if the Biblical standard of morality is relevant in modern society. I'll bite :
Biblically speaking premarital sex is a bad idea. Realistically speaking, premarital sex makes a guy happy for couple of minutes and potentially ruins a woman's life, as well as the life of the offspring that may result from the sex. "Adulterous thoughts" are a gateway drug to premarital sex. Hence lustful thoughts can conceivably (pun-intended) destroy at least two lives, while making some guy smile for a few minutes.
Aside from being Biblical, it seems like a pretty clear "modern society" choice to me...
... but that's just me |
Oh! Too funny. |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 06:58:45 PM · #181 |
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
Doc, explain the wisdom in this please. |
I was more talking about the risks of unwanted pregnancy and STDs. These are pragmatic, practical reasons to be wary of premarital sex. A third is the mental baggage that can come along when you do get married which can cause problems. A simple example would be a guy who first dates a woman who is extremely sexually satisfying. He then falls in love and marries another woman who is far less adept. It would be natural to make comparisons (the "grass is greener syndrome") and such comparisons can lead to unhappiness in the larger picture. I saw a recent Google News article looking at divorce and sexuality and found that the most correlated risk for divorce (among the risks looked at) was the husband's sexual satisfaction with his wife. If you don't have any "body of experience" (mild pun intended) for comparison, you are less likely to be unsatisfied.
Again, just practical considerations. That's what I was commenting on.
Found the Huffington Post article about the sex/divorce study.
Message edited by author 2011-10-12 19:00:44. |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 07:20:51 PM · #182 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
Doc, explain the wisdom in this please. |
I was more talking about the risks of unwanted pregnancy and STDs. These are pragmatic, practical reasons to be wary of premarital sex. A third is the mental baggage that can come along when you do get married which can cause problems. A simple example would be a guy who first dates a woman who is extremely sexually satisfying. He then falls in love and marries another woman who is far less adept. It would be natural to make comparisons (the "grass is greener syndrome") and such comparisons can lead to unhappiness in the larger picture. I saw a recent Google News article looking at divorce and sexuality and found that the most correlated risk for divorce (among the risks looked at) was the husband's sexual satisfaction with his wife. If you don't have any "body of experience" (mild pun intended) for comparison, you are less likely to be unsatisfied.
Again, just practical considerations. That's what I was commenting on.
Found the Huffington Post article about the sex/divorce study. |
So you're saying you shouldn't have sex because that way you won't know it isn't better with someone else? That's bizarre. I'd never buy a car without test driving it. And I certainly wouldn't want to end up spending my life with someone that I'm not sexually compatible with. |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 07:24:24 PM · #183 |
Not to drag this back onto topic or anything, but isn't there any feeling or opinions as to this young man's obligations to the morality and ethics of his actions, not to mention accountability to the university, Marko, and the young woman?
Marko's reaction to his roommate's unloading on him pales in comparison, don't y'all think????
|
|
|
|
10/12/2011 07:26:41 PM · #184 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
Doc, explain the wisdom in this please. |
I was more talking about the risks of unwanted pregnancy and STDs. These are pragmatic, practical reasons to be wary of premarital sex. A third is the mental baggage that can come along when you do get married which can cause problems. A simple example would be a guy who first dates a woman who is extremely sexually satisfying. He then falls in love and marries another woman who is far less adept. It would be natural to make comparisons (the "grass is greener syndrome") and such comparisons can lead to unhappiness in the larger picture. I saw a recent Google News article looking at divorce and sexuality and found that the most correlated risk for divorce (among the risks looked at) was the husband's sexual satisfaction with his wife. If you don't have any "body of experience" (mild pun intended) for comparison, you are less likely to be unsatisfied.
Again, just practical considerations. That's what I was commenting on.
Found the Huffington Post article about the sex/divorce study. |
If you find your partner not being as good as a previous partner in bed a good reason for divorce, I would say the marriage shouldn't have taken place to begin with. And a solution to increasing divorce rates would perhaps be to encourage people to get to know someone inside and out and be sure they want to spend the rest of their life with them beforehand, rather than putting up other incentives to get married (e.g. sex). But then perhaps that's just wild speculation on my part.
Message edited by author 2011-10-12 19:27:31. |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 07:28:31 PM · #185 |
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
WHAT??? premarital sex makes a guy happy for a couple of minutes and that's all?... So after marriage sex is what? A beautiful, loving exchange between two people? But before marriage? Oh no, it's a guy getting his goods? Myqyl, what magic thing does a marriage license imbue on the sex act? You say it's all about what the guy gets, is it even possible for a woman to enjoy sex? (pre marriage or not)
|
What magic thing does a marriage license imbue? Fair question...
It imbues legal rights on the woman (and possibly the child that will result) and legal responsibilities on the male (I don't use the word "man" to describe everyone capable of impregnating a woman without accepting responsibility for the child they create).
You second question, "is it possible for a woman to enjoy sex?" My experience is that yes, women do enjoy sex quite a bit... I'm sorry that you have to ask this... Perhaps you are doing something wrong?
It's my opinion that women likely enjoy sex more with someone willing to make a commitment to their relationship. Of course like all generalities it doesn't apply universally. Can any of the ladies here chime in and tell me if I'm off base?
Thanks
|
|
|
|
10/12/2011 07:30:14 PM · #186 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Not to drag this back onto topic or anything, but isn't there any feeling or opinions as to this young man's obligations to the morality and ethics of his actions, not to mention accountability to the university, Marko, and the young woman?
Marko's reaction to his roommate's unloading on him pales in comparison, don't y'all think???? |
I absolutely agree, and Marko's post and it's wording displays a certain self-obsession in the face of a quite overwhelming life crisis for a couple of people. So, as long as we were being irrelevant and unlikely to impact the real life situation in any meaningful way, I indulged myself with some morality chat. Gave up when I read that premarital sex makes a guy happy for a couple of minutes...
Good luck with it. |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 07:33:48 PM · #187 |
Originally posted by myqyl:
You second question, "is it possible for a woman to enjoy sex?" My experience is that yes, women do enjoy sex quite a bit... I'm sorry that you have to ask this... Perhaps you are doing something wrong? |
It was clearly a rhetorical question. Ignoring the obvious meaning behind an argument to simply insult the person you're debating with only makes you look like an idiot. |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 07:35:29 PM · #188 |
Originally posted by myqyl:
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
WHAT??? premarital sex makes a guy happy for a couple of minutes and that's all?... So after marriage sex is what? A beautiful, loving exchange between two people? But before marriage? Oh no, it's a guy getting his goods? Myqyl, what magic thing does a marriage license imbue on the sex act? You say it's all about what the guy gets, is it even possible for a woman to enjoy sex? (pre marriage or not)
|
What magic thing does a marriage license imbue? Fair question...
It imbues legal rights on the woman (and possibly the child that will result) and legal responsibilities on the male (I don't use the word "man" to describe everyone capable of impregnating a woman without accepting responsibility for the child they create).
You second question, "is it possible for a woman to enjoy sex?" My experience is that yes, women do enjoy sex quite a bit... I'm sorry that you have to ask this... Perhaps you are doing something wrong?
It's my opinion that women likely enjoy sex more with someone willing to make a commitment to their relationship. Of course like all generalities it doesn't apply universally. Can any of the ladies here chime in and tell me if I'm off base?
Thanks |
Sure, I'll chime in. With DNA testing, in the present world, the man has to take at least financial responsibility for his actions regarding a child. As for taking responsibility for anything else, a marriage licence wouldn't change that.
As for sex. I can tell you with a straight face. I've been with my husband for 29 years. We've been married for 23 years. We lived together for 5 years before we got married. The sex was much better before the licence. I believe there are multiple reasons for that, but it is what it is. A man no longer feels he needs to impress once that ring is on the finger. |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 07:38:47 PM · #189 |
Hawkins and Kelli, I think your response indicates you are caricaturing my position.
Anyway, I'm just stating my opinion and your results may vary. I'm happy with my choices and where it has led me in life and would recommend it to someone who asked. |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 07:43:11 PM · #190 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Hawkins and Kelli, I think your response indicates you are caricaturing my position.
Anyway, I'm just stating my opinion and your results may vary. I'm happy with my choices and where it has led me in life and would recommend it to someone who asked. |
I'm really not. I respect the choices you've made as long as you're happy with them. I just wouldn't make those choices for myself or recommend them to anyone else. I'm also just stating my opinion and the fact that I'm happy I did things the way I did. |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 07:44:09 PM · #191 |
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
Premarital sex (or sex without marriage) does not necessarily mean promiscuity, disrespect, disease etc. Why is the life of the issue of premarital sex ruined? How is it ruined? What does that even mean?
|
Sorry, I missed the third question...
The life of the child is potentially ruined by being a) aborted... This will ruin anyone's day if it happens to them... or b) be born out of wedlock which is classically referred to as being a bastard. The opportunities for such children are considerably diminished from their 2 parent counterparts. They will be far more likely to live in poverty, be the target of childhood bullying, and have emotional attachment issues. Their lives are not ruined, but the odds of a happy childhood are greatly diminished.
Hope that answers your question. |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 07:45:10 PM · #192 |
Originally posted by myqyl:
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
WHAT??? premarital sex makes a guy happy for a couple of minutes and that's all?... So after marriage sex is what? A beautiful, loving exchange between two people? But before marriage? Oh no, it's a guy getting his goods? Myqyl, what magic thing does a marriage license imbue on the sex act? You say it's all about what the guy gets, is it even possible for a woman to enjoy sex? (pre marriage or not)
|
What magic thing does a marriage license imbue? Fair question...
It imbues legal rights on the woman (and possibly the child that will result) and legal responsibilities on the male (I don't use the word "man" to describe everyone capable of impregnating a woman without accepting responsibility for the child they create).
You second question, "is it possible for a woman to enjoy sex?" My experience is that yes, women do enjoy sex quite a bit... I'm sorry that you have to ask this... Perhaps you are doing something wrong?
It's my opinion that women likely enjoy sex more with someone willing to make a commitment to their relationship. Of course like all generalities it doesn't apply universally. Can any of the ladies here chime in and tell me if I'm off base?
Thanks |
you paraphrased me to remove the point. That is, what magic thing does a marriage license imbue on the sex act The sex act does not become legal because there are not any places I can think of where extra marital sex is not legal already (governments the world over have long recognised the reality of the sex drive and the impracticality of enforcing any such ruling) In the same way a child has legal rights including maintenance whether or not his or her parents are or were married. You implied that premarital sex was just about the short-term fun for the man, I would say that is completely ridiculous. And you were the one that omitted any mention of a woman's enjoyment of the act.
I don't know about women enjoying sex more when they are married (you've just added the 'committed relationship' cop out that you didn't use before) but I do know a lot of letters to magazines that start, "Before we got married the sex was great but then..." |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 07:57:31 PM · #193 |
This is just an update on what has happened. I am not going to get into anything about previous posts...
I came into the room today after dinner and he told me 2 things as soon as I walked in...
First he told me thank you for not babying him and basically slapping him in the face. At this point I did apologies but he would not even let me finish without saying thank you again. Basically telling me that I should not be sorry.
Second he said the girl has taken 2 take home pregnancy tests both of which came back negative. He said that they have parted ways.
After this I waited to see if he would want to talk to me about it more but he decided to put his headphones in and resume to doing whatever it is that he was doing on his computer when I walked in.
I hope that is the end. |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 07:57:50 PM · #194 |
Originally posted by myqyl:
Originally posted by ray_mefarso:
Premarital sex (or sex without marriage) does not necessarily mean promiscuity, disrespect, disease etc. Why is the life of the issue of premarital sex ruined? How is it ruined? What does that even mean?
|
Sorry, I missed the third question...
The life of the child is potentially ruined by being a) aborted... This will ruin anyone's day if it happens to them... or b) be born out of wedlock which is classically referred to as being a bastard. The opportunities for such children are considerably diminished from their 2 parent counterparts. They will be far more likely to live in poverty, be the target of childhood bullying, and have emotional attachment issues. Their lives are not ruined, but the odds of a happy childhood are greatly diminished.
Hope that answers your question. |
But none of these things are exclusive to a marriage are they? A child can still be aborted within a marriage. Bastard? In 2011? Are you serious? Can I ask how old you are? 2 parent counterparts? All children have 2 parents, the lifelong level of involvement of both parents in a child's life is not incumbent on the fact of whether those parents are married or not. Odds of a happy childhood are greatly diminished? Think about your argument - you are talking here about single parent families (which are not necessarily unhappy places anyway) not premarital sex. |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 08:07:54 PM · #195 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Hawkins and Kelli, I think your response indicates you are caricaturing my position.
Anyway, I'm just stating my opinion and your results may vary. I'm happy with my choices and where it has led me in life and would recommend it to someone who asked. |
I'm really not. I respect the choices you've made as long as you're happy with them. I just wouldn't make those choices for myself or recommend them to anyone else. I'm also just stating my opinion and the fact that I'm happy I did things the way I did. |
I think I'll have to say ditto to Kelli's response here. While I may not agree with your responses it's nice to debate with someone who actually has answers for their beliefs rather than someone who blindly debates the beliefs of another they don't understand themselves. |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 08:23:13 PM · #196 |
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
This is just an update on what has happened. I am not going to get into anything about previous posts... ... the girl has taken 2 take home pregnancy tests both of which came back negative. |
The sensitivity and accuracy of these tests can vary quite a bit depending on brand/type. Repeating the test in a week or two or three, or getting a free test at a public health clinic (or wherever she wants/can) might still be a good idea (for her).
Sounds like your initial response had the desired effect after all. Maybe this will help make the guy into someone you can tolerate a bit more in the future. |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 08:28:33 PM · #197 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Sure, I'll chime in. With DNA testing, in the present world, the man has to take at least financial responsibility for his actions regarding a child. As for taking responsibility for anything else, a marriage licence wouldn't change that.
As for sex. I can tell you with a straight face. I've been with my husband for 29 years. We've been married for 23 years. We lived together for 5 years before we got married. The sex was much better before the licence. I believe there are multiple reasons for that, but it is what it is. A man no longer feels he needs to impress once that ring is on the finger. |
Hi Kelli,
While your point about DNA has validity it should be noted that it depends on the "father" agreeing to supply a DNA sample. Any male with a halfway decent lawyer could avoid that on 4th amendment grounds (I speak of USA law as that is where I live. Milage may vary).
As to sex being better before or after a ring, I've found the opposite to be true. I'm guessing that there is no rule here as much as a lot of exceptions. Some men might start phoning it in while others will want to please the woman they love. There is no way (including pre-marital tryouts) to predict what you'll get... |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 08:35:13 PM · #198 |
My room mate told me a story about when he was having sex with a girl on our floor in residence. In the heat of the moment she said to him, "I'm not on the pillow." Being the caring guy he was, he shoved more of the pillow under her head. Later on, he found out what she REALLY said was, "I'm not on the pill."
He was pretty nervous for a few weeks, but everything turned out OK. It made for a lot of good jokes later on.
... then there was the time I tricked him into smoking an entire cigarette I'd rolled with rabbit poop... :-D
Message edited by author 2011-10-12 20:35:55.
|
|
|
|
10/12/2011 09:07:34 PM · #199 |
Hello  mbrutus2009. It seems to me you are asking the wrong people for advise. Some has been good and some not so good.
Are you telling us the school gave you instructions to abstain but didn't tell you what to do if you failed? And they failed to give you guidance on how to handle a situation such as you have found yourself in? All of the Christian schools I have been associated with require the students to attend bible classes. This would be a better place to bring up your questions rather than on this forum....especially this one where there are few Christians. |
|
|
|
10/12/2011 09:10:55 PM · #200 |
Huh?
Are we really taking this thread to whether the guy who said he went against what he'd agreed to do to... a DNA test to prove that he wasn't the one who was most successful at doing what they both... oops... all three agreed not to do? (the OP is, obviously, not counted in this count)
HUH!?
Message edited by author 2011-10-12 21:12:11. |
|
