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02/18/2012 10:24:25 AM · #1 |
A conservative explains why right-wingers have no compassion
Hash it out. This I'd like to see.
For my part, this all makes sense and helps me get what I never before could get fully.
To be clear, I don't mean to generalize and say this is ALL right-wingers. Just a certain type that gains a lot of media attention, and support of like-minded people. The type that outrage any clear thinking person, all along the political and social spectrum. (What I mean to say is the people that even republicans go... wtf is up with that?)
Message edited by author 2012-02-18 10:40:52. |
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02/18/2012 11:29:27 AM · #2 |
I'd say the article's estimate that 25% of the population is authoritarian was just about right, low if anything, in my experience.
But it's nice to think that my existence is a sign of the triumph of compassion over authoritarianism. If that's really what being a walking affront to the right wing means, I must be doing something right! :) |
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02/18/2012 12:39:51 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by Mousie:
I'd say the article's estimate that 25% of the population is authoritarian was just about right, low if anything, in my experience.
But it's nice to think that my existence is a sign of the triumph of compassion over authoritarianism. If that's really what being a walking affront to the right wing means, I must be doing something right! :) |
Well the sway that 25% has, as the article says, seems to me why the more moderate republicans start changing their tune to accommodate that crowd. They know what they are doing, and they know they are talking a bunch of crap they don't actually believe. The movie Jesus Camp had a similar estimate and commentary on that power.
There are crazy people on all sides, the thing that makes the right stand out is that some of them band together in group delusions. |
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03/21/2012 12:20:29 PM · #4 |
Not sure I would classify Mike Lofgren as a basic republican conservative. His other articles provide a peek that he has an agenda. article //www.alternet.org/story/152305/confessions_of_a_gop_operative_who_left_%22the_cult%22%3A_3_things_everyone_must_know_about_the_lunatic-filled_republican_party/
Regardless - your title "lack of compassion on the right" is a bit different than the focus on far right wingers and their behavior/actions. If the far right had control of the Republican Party then a Moderate like Romney would not be leading the pack nor would McCain have gotten the nod last time.
To get a sense of why those right of center conservatives may be so vocal, one need only look at the changes in socially accepted criteria in my lifetime. From saying the Pledge at the start of every class in public school to its now nearly outlaw status, having the 10 commandments displayed in courthouses to their outlaw, having "holiday" trees instead of Christmas trees and the removing of nativity scenes at Christmas time from City Hall. These are pretty substantial changes in attitude and the onslaught from the left is rampant.
Shouldn't be any surprise that when folks feel threatened, they react.
Just as those on the left have their motivation to change, those on the right can strive for less of it to be stuffed down their throats.
Message edited by author 2012-03-21 12:25:56. |
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03/21/2012 01:20:26 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by Flash:
To get a sense of why those right of center conservatives may be so vocal, one need only look at the changes in socially accepted criteria in my lifetime. From saying the Pledge at the start of every class in public school to its now nearly outlaw status, having the 10 commandments displayed in courthouses to their outlaw, having "holiday" trees instead of Christmas trees and the removing of nativity scenes at Christmas time from City Hall. These are pretty substantial changes in attitude and the onslaught from the left is rampant. |
The Pledge of Allegiance continues to be a standard routine across the country. The only "outlawed" part is the bit about "under God," which was stuffed down our throats added during the Cold War. Monuments and plaques bearing the 10 commandments were likewise stuffed down our throats modern additions that the Supreme Court declared unconstitutional. To my knowledge, Christmas trees and nativity scenes are only removed when they are the sole public representation of religion in a government setting, which is, once again unconstitutional. If those who try to stuff a single belief down our throats bothered to understand the purpose of constitutional protections for ALL people, maybe they wouldn't feel so threatened when their discriminatory efforts are consistently struck down. Speaking of which, recent state efforts to return women's healthcare back to the Bronze Age will inevitably be struck down, too. If you stick your nose into the private lives of others, it will be punched precisely because people don't want to have your ideas stuffed down their throats!
Message edited by author 2012-03-21 13:21:20. |
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03/21/2012 02:19:23 PM · #6 |
The demonization of the people on the other side of the political spectrum is not conducive to understanding or finding a middle ground. Of course after listening to Rush Limbaugh or Anne Coulter spew hatred from the right, there is a natural tendency to want to return fire in kind, and to paint them as psychopaths isn't very hard to do given the extreme viewpoint their form of "entertainment" takes.
There are those on the right who have good ideas, who are logical and with whom the left can work (IMHO far fewer than there were in the past but they have to be there). We need to seek the middle ground, to find points of agreement. If all we can do is excoriate the other side then we are laying the ground for a failure of the union, and the question becomes which side will subjugate the other.
Painting those who disagree with you as all being bat sh*t crazy is not helpful, even when they do such a good job making your case for you. |
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03/21/2012 02:34:16 PM · #7 |
| I have never understood how anybody can say "I'm left" or "I'm right, it's like refusing half of reality and it pretty much sums up man's dualistic nature. You can see this by looking at the extremes, their ideas tend to resemble each other and always end in violence, it's a circle and if you go to the extreme left you end up at the extreme right. Instead of systematically pushing away ideas from the opposite side that you are currently on, just stroll over there and check them out, everybody will gain, especially one's self. |
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03/21/2012 04:28:31 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Not sure I would classify Mike Lofgren as a basic republican conservative. His other articles provide a peek that he has an agenda. article //www.alternet.org/story/152305/confessions_of_a_gop_operative_who_left_%22the_cult%22%3A_3_things_everyone_must_know_about_the_lunatic-filled_republican_party/
Regardless - your title "lack of compassion on the right" is a bit different than the focus on far right wingers and their behavior/actions. If the far right had control of the Republican Party then a Moderate like Romney would not be leading the pack nor would McCain have gotten the nod last time. |
Wow, this article ought to be required reading for every citizen of the United States. But I have to say, I don't understand why you would post it. Are you not a supporter of these Republican politicians? Also, are you trying to argue that the extreme right is not really exerting a controlling influence because Mitt Romney and John McCain are prominent in the party? Mitt Romney, as well as just about every other Republican politician I can think of, supports the Ryan budget. The Ryan budget cuts Medicare and other social programs by the same amount as it lowers taxes on the wealthy, in essence a massive transfer of wealth from the 99 percent to the 1 percent. That is NOT a "moderate" economic plan. Mitt Romney's budget does essentially the same thing, except that his budget also adds trillions to the deficit. Mitt Romney is only leading the pack because he seems the least bat-shit crazy of the lot, but he is no moderate. |
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03/21/2012 09:56:37 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Mitt Romney is only leading the pack because he seems the least bat-shit crazy of the lot, but he is no moderate. |
+1
Amen to that!
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03/21/2012 10:32:05 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Not sure I would classify Mike Lofgren as a basic republican conservative. His other articles provide a peek that he has an agenda. article //www.alternet.org/story/152305/confessions_of_a_gop_operative_who_left_%22the_cult%22%3A_3_things_everyone_must_know_about_the_lunatic-filled_republican_party/
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just wanted to fix that link so more people can read that article. |
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03/22/2012 12:22:06 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Flash:
Not sure I would classify Mike Lofgren as a basic republican conservative. His other articles provide a peek that he has an agenda. article //www.alternet.org/story/152305/confessions_of_a_gop_operative_who_left_%22the_cult%22%3A_3_things_everyone_must_know_about_the_lunatic-filled_republican_party/
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just wanted to fix that link so more people can read that article. |
Thank you. That should be required reading for any voter regardless of party affiliation. |
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03/22/2012 08:20:27 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by Flash:
Not sure I would classify Mike Lofgren as a basic republican conservative. His other articles provide a peek that he has an agenda. article //www.alternet.org/story/152305/confessions_of_a_gop_operative_who_left_%22the_cult%22%3A_3_things_everyone_must_know_about_the_lunatic-filled_republican_party/
Regardless - your title "lack of compassion on the right" is a bit different than the focus on far right wingers and their behavior/actions. If the far right had control of the Republican Party then a Moderate like Romney would not be leading the pack nor would McCain have gotten the nod last time. |
Wow, this article ought to be required reading for every citizen of the United States. But I have to say, I don't understand why you would post it. Are you not a supporter of these Republican politicians? Also, are you trying to argue that the extreme right is not really exerting a controlling influence because Mitt Romney and John McCain are prominent in the party? Mitt Romney, as well as just about every other Republican politician I can think of, supports the Ryan budget. The Ryan budget cuts Medicare and other social programs by the same amount as it lowers taxes on the wealthy, in essence a massive transfer of wealth from the 99 percent to the 1 percent. That is NOT a "moderate" economic plan. Mitt Romney's budget does essentially the same thing, except that his budget also adds trillions to the deficit. Mitt Romney is only leading the pack because he seems the least bat-shit crazy of the lot, but he is no moderate. |
1. The OP posted a thread titled Lack of compassion seen on the right.
2. Opening the thread leads to an article written by a former Republican staffer who has "seen the light".
3. Reviewing other articles by this former Republican, reveals an agenda.
4. The OP was (I thought) sincerly trying to gleen insight into the mindset of right of center conservatives. Accepting the viewpoint/opinion of the OP's linked author is like accepting Bill Clinton's former campaign manager's viewpoint/opinions of how messed up the Left is. Both are former party faithful making a living bashing their former team mates. If the article author is spot on based on his unique qualifications of "being in the room", then Clinton's former campaign manager must be the Holy Grail of insight into the Left.
5. Reference was made to the far right and how 25% controls the party, to which I gave 2 examples where that is not true. McCain was and Romney is not embraced by the far right - due to their moderate stances - regardless of rehtoric.
6. Believing that the OP was sincere in seeking insight, examples were given on why some right of center conservatives feel threatened by the left's agenda. Namely the attacks on religion.
7. As is typical here, those examples were met with an abrupt pointed barrage on how messed up the right was and how deserving they are of being "punched".
I should have known that a sincere query into the minds of right of center conservatives was not the intent of the thread. |
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03/22/2012 08:31:54 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
The demonization of the people on the other side of the political spectrum is not conducive to understanding or finding a middle ground. Of course after listening to Rush Limbaugh or Anne Coulter spew hatred from the right, there is a natural tendency to want to return fire in kind, and to paint them as psychopaths isn't very hard to do given the extreme viewpoint their form of "entertainment" takes.
There are those on the right who have good ideas, who are logical and with whom the left can work (IMHO far fewer than there were in the past but they have to be there). We need to seek the middle ground, to find points of agreement. If all we can do is excoriate the other side then we are laying the ground for a failure of the union, and the question becomes which side will subjugate the other.
Painting those who disagree with you as all being bat sh*t crazy is not helpful, even when they do such a good job making your case for you. |
I have read a few of your posts in the last few weeks and you come accross as reasoned. What would give your words even more weight to me is if you added to this line "Of course after listening to Rush Limbaugh or Anne Coulter spew hatred from the right," the names of those on the left who practice this same kind of "entertainment". |
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03/22/2012 08:33:42 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Flash:
Not sure I would classify Mike Lofgren as a basic republican conservative. His other articles provide a peek that he has an agenda. article //www.alternet.org/story/152305/confessions_of_a_gop_operative_who_left_%22the_cult%22%3A_3_things_everyone_must_know_about_the_lunatic-filled_republican_party/
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just wanted to fix that link so more people can read that article. |
Thank you. I had tried 2x to get the link to work and finally just pasted the address - hoping for some help. Thanks again. |
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03/22/2012 01:45:08 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by Flash:
Not sure I would classify Mike Lofgren as a basic republican conservative. His other articles provide a peek that he has an agenda. article //www.alternet.org/story/152305/confessions_of_a_gop_operative_who_left_%22the_cult%22%3A_3_things_everyone_must_know_about_the_lunatic-filled_republican_party/
Regardless - your title "lack of compassion on the right" is a bit different than the focus on far right wingers and their behavior/actions. If the far right had control of the Republican Party then a Moderate like Romney would not be leading the pack nor would McCain have gotten the nod last time. |
Wow, this article ought to be required reading for every citizen of the United States. But I have to say, I don't understand why you would post it. Are you not a supporter of these Republican politicians? Also, are you trying to argue that the extreme right is not really exerting a controlling influence because Mitt Romney and John McCain are prominent in the party? Mitt Romney, as well as just about every other Republican politician I can think of, supports the Ryan budget. The Ryan budget cuts Medicare and other social programs by the same amount as it lowers taxes on the wealthy, in essence a massive transfer of wealth from the 99 percent to the 1 percent. That is NOT a "moderate" economic plan. Mitt Romney's budget does essentially the same thing, except that his budget also adds trillions to the deficit. Mitt Romney is only leading the pack because he seems the least bat-shit crazy of the lot, but he is no moderate. |
1. The OP posted a thread titled Lack of compassion seen on the right.
2. Opening the thread leads to an article written by a former Republican staffer who has "seen the light".
3. Reviewing other articles by this former Republican, reveals an agenda.
4. The OP was (I thought) sincerly trying to gleen insight into the mindset of right of center conservatives. Accepting the viewpoint/opinion of the OP's linked author is like accepting Bill Clinton's former campaign manager's viewpoint/opinions of how messed up the Left is. Both are former party faithful making a living bashing their former team mates. If the article author is spot on based on his unique qualifications of "being in the room", then Clinton's former campaign manager must be the Holy Grail of insight into the Left.
5. Reference was made to the far right and how 25% controls the party, to which I gave 2 examples where that is not true. McCain was and Romney is not embraced by the far right - due to their moderate stances - regardless of rehtoric.
6. Believing that the OP was sincere in seeking insight, examples were given on why some right of center conservatives feel threatened by the left's agenda. Namely the attacks on religion.
7. As is typical here, those examples were met with an abrupt pointed barrage on how messed up the right was and how deserving they are of being "punched".
I should have known that a sincere query into the minds of right of center conservatives was not the intent of the thread. |
I just think you're wrong about the motivation of the author of these articles. I'm quite sure that his retirement would have been much more lucrative had he remained loyal to the Republican Party. Might it be the case that he is truly horrified by what his party has become and feels compelled to warn the general public?
Concerning your examples of "attacks" on religion, perhaps you ought to really think about whether those prohibitions prevent you in any way, shape, or form from practicing your religion. Do you think the government ought to afford your belief system privileged status?
Message edited by author 2012-03-22 13:46:04. |
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03/22/2012 02:53:15 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Flash:
I have read a few of your posts in the last few weeks and you come accross as reasoned. What would give your words even more weight to me is if you added to this line "Of course after listening to Rush Limbaugh or Anne Coulter spew hatred from the right," the names of those on the left who practice this same kind of "entertainment". |
There's nobody comparable on the Left. Conservative policy is driven by comedians. There is no comedian on the left with the policy-making kingmaking power of Rush Limbaugh, or Hannity, or Beck, or Coulter, et al. |
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03/22/2012 04:31:35 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Reviewing other articles by this former Republican, reveals an agenda. |
If you believed man had never landed on the moon, the holocaust never happened, evolution was a myth or that man-made global warming was fiction, then merely pointing out the truth would be "an agenda" from your viewpoint. This is no different. |
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03/22/2012 04:56:54 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
There is no comedian on the left with the policy-making kingmaking power of Rush Limbaugh, or Hannity, or Beck, or Coulter, et al. |
Al Franken left to be a senator
Keith Oberman suspended then fired by MSNBC, now works for current TV, which I certainly have never seen as part of a basic cable package.
Bill Maher Well sort of, but more of a comparative to Dennis Miller as neither have gigs on networks but show up to spice up political round tables all the time, but are seen as comics with political views.
Colbert and Steward, sort of but as John Steward said to Tucker Carlson and Paul Begala when he ripped them apart on "Crossfire" " You're on CNN. The show that leads into me is puppets making crank phone calls." Or it was then. Now it's internet videos specializing in nut shots. Not a platform which aspires to swaying national policy.
In short, at least from my perspective there are no left wing talk show host who show up on my basic cable package who have anything like the sway that Limbaugh and all the folks over at Fox have. |
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03/23/2012 09:51:40 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
I just think you're wrong about the motivation of the author of these articles. I'm quite sure that his retirement would have been much more lucrative had he remained loyal to the Republican Party. Might it be the case that he is truly horrified by what his party has become and feels compelled to warn the general public?
Concerning your examples of "attacks" on religion, perhaps you ought to really think about whether those prohibitions prevent you in any way, shape, or form from practicing your religion. Do you think the government ought to afford your belief system privileged status? |
Perhaps I am wrong regarding the authors motivation. Maybe he is truly horrified at what his former party has become. Should I then give more credibility to the writings and discourse of Dick Morris?
I do not think that the government should afford my belief system "privileged status". I was attempting to show "why" some right of center conservatives feel the way they do. Conservatives (generally) want things to remain "as they were".
"Major movements within American conservatism include support for tradition, law-and-order, Christianity, anti-communism, and a defense of "Western civilization from the challenges of modernist culture and totalitarian governments."[99] Economic conservatives and libertarians favor small government, low taxes, limited regulation, and free enterprise. [i]Social conservatives see traditional social values as threatened by secularism, so they support school prayer and oppose abortion and homosexuality.[100] Neoconservatives want to expand American ideals throughout the world and show a strong support for Israel.[101] Paleoconservatives, in opposition to multiculturalism, press for restrictions on immigration.[102] Most U.S. conservatives prefer Republicans over Democrats, and most factions favor a strong foreign policy and a strong military.[/i]" From Wikipedia |
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03/23/2012 10:05:49 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Flash:
I have read a few of your posts in the last few weeks and you come accross as reasoned. What would give your words even more weight to me is if you added to this line "Of course after listening to Rush Limbaugh or Anne Coulter spew hatred from the right," the names of those on the left who practice this same kind of "entertainment". |
There's nobody comparable on the Left. Conservative policy is driven by comedians. There is no comedian on the left with the policy-making kingmaking power of Rush Limbaugh, or Hannity, or Beck, or Coulter, et al. |
I don't listen to any of your examples. It would be like me saying that George Soros, Media Matters, MoveOn.org, Rachel Maddow, Keith Olberman, Bill Maher, Rosie O'Donnell, Reverand Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson are policy-making kingmakers of the left. They each have their audience and they have influence on those who are influenced by them. Not sure why the left is so taken with Fox news and their commentators. I read things like how Fox is dishonest and has an agenda but those claiming that never also claim that MSNBC or The Huffinton Post have agendas or that their reporting is skewed for their audience. Just seems hypocritical to me.
Spend 20 minutes sometime and watch Bret Baier and the Fox Allstars discuss events. You may not agree with the positions of Charles Krauthammer, or Mary Katherine Hayes, or Juan Williams, or Jonah Goldberg, Or Bill Crystal, but you'll see a different discussion than that of Hannity or Coulter. |
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03/23/2012 10:11:17 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Conservatives (generally) want things to remain "as they were".
"Major movements within Iranian conservatism include support for tradition, law-and-order, Islam, anti-communism, and a defense of "Middle Eastern civilization from the challenges of modernist culture and fair governments." The rich favor small government, low taxes, limited regulation, and free enterprise. Social conservatives see traditional social values as threatened by secularism, so they support school prayer and oppose abortion and homosexuality. Neoconservatives want to expand Iranian ideals throughout the world and show a strong support for Palestinian Paleoconservatives, in opposition to multiculturalism, press for restrictions on immigration. Most Iranian conservatives prefer Hardliners over Moderates, and most factions favor a strong foreign policy and a strong military." |
Spelling errors corrected. |
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03/23/2012 10:12:03 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
In short, at least from my perspective there are no left wing talk show host who show up on my basic cable package who have anything like the sway that Limbaugh and all the folks over at Fox have. |
There may not be any with the sway, but that doesn't mean they aren't trying to have. The fact that MSNBC's ratings are what they are or the repeated failures of Rosie O'Donnell or the failed Air America to counter conservative talk radio, says that either the american public is as stupid as the left claims they are or they are as smart as the right says. |
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03/23/2012 10:14:18 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Flash:
Conservatives (generally) want things to remain "as they were".
"Major movements within Iranian conservatism include support for tradition, law-and-order, Islam, anti-communism, and a defense of "Middle Eastern civilization from the challenges of modernist culture and fair governments." The rich favor small government, low taxes, limited regulation, and free enterprise. Social conservatives see traditional social values as threatened by secularism, so they support school prayer and oppose abortion and homosexuality. Neoconservatives want to expand Iranian ideals throughout the world and show a strong support for Palestinian Paleoconservatives, in opposition to multiculturalism, press for restrictions on immigration. Most Iranian conservatives prefer Hardliners over Moderates, and most factions favor a strong foreign policy and a strong military." |
Spelling errors corrected. |
That was directly taken from Wikipedia. I hope you went there and edited the text as well. |
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03/23/2012 10:14:52 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Flash:
I have read a few of your posts in the last few weeks and you come accross as reasoned. What would give your words even more weight to me is if you added to this line "Of course after listening to Rush Limbaugh or Anne Coulter spew hatred from the right," the names of those on the left who practice this same kind of "entertainment". |
There's nobody comparable on the Left. Conservative policy is driven by comedians. There is no comedian on the left with the policy-making kingmaking power of Rush Limbaugh, or Hannity, or Beck, or Coulter, et al. |
I don't listen to any of your examples. It would be like me saying that George Soros, Media Matters, MoveOn.org, Rachel Maddow, Keith Olberman, Bill Maher, Rosie O'Donnell, Reverand Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson are policy-making kingmakers of the left. They each have their audience and they have influence on those who are influenced by them. Not sure why the left is so taken with Fox news and their commentators. I read things like how Fox is dishonest and has an agenda but those claiming that never also claim that MSNBC or The Huffinton Post have agendas or that their reporting is skewed for their audience. Just seems hypocritical to me.
Spend 20 minutes sometime and watch Bret Baier and the Fox Allstars discuss events. You may not agree with the positions of Charles Krauthammer, or Mary Katherine Hayes, or Juan Williams, or Jonah Goldberg, Or Bill Crystal, but you'll see a different discussion than that of Hannity or Coulter. |
I'm not talking about what you listen to, unless you're a congressman. I'm talking about policy makers. I'm talking about the people who write your talking points. |
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03/23/2012 10:18:46 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by Flash:
It would be like me saying that George Soros, Media Matters, MoveOn.org, Rachel Maddow, Keith Olberman, Bill Maher, Rosie O'Donnell, Reverand Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson are policy-making kingmakers of the left. |
Democratic candidates do not make it a point to pander to the people you listed or worry about what their followers will think. Hence, they aren't kingmakers.
Originally posted by Flash:
I read things like how Fox is dishonest and has an agenda but those claiming that never also claim that MSNBC or The Huffinton Post have agendas or that their reporting is skewed for their audience. |
MSNBC never sued for the right to lie, and reporting facts in opposition to fabricated propaganda will indeed appear skewed. GOOD. |
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