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07/04/2012 12:44:18 PM · #1 |
Ok...maybe this is just a common whine....but I gotta "vent" a moment...
I enter this...
//www.pixoto.com/images-photography/landscape-and-nature/waterscapes/48826043
and I get a good response...it's top 10% of the images for the day in Landscape & Nature...a good result...I'm happy. Bssed on my results, I've already made some minor adjustments to my file on my computer.
However...then there's THIS...
//www.pixoto.com/images-photography/landscape-and-nature/cities-towns-and-villages/48979362
THAT image....was top 3 for day....not top 3%...but NUMBER 3!...for the same day I entered mine.
I really don't like criticizing other people's "artwork", but this is really insulting. The guy does a HORRIBLE stitch job of at least 3 different images, including some really badly skewed lightning and a horrible jagged edged masking around the bridge...not to mention the major differences in contrast and lighting between the stitched images.
I am NOT trying to grab attention to my own image. Like I said...I was happy with my results, but COME ON! You can't vote on your own images there, and a lot of the photographers there are voters, so a good portion of the voters should know good from...well...horrendous. SO...like I said...I don't get it. I give up trying to figure out voters on pixoto. They're usually pretty fair and it gives me a good sense of how I am doing as I improve over time...but curveballs like this, baffle the heck out of me.
Ok....thanks....rant over. |
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07/04/2012 12:51:28 PM · #2 |
| his image is brighter than yours. composition is also nicer. jags aren't quite that noticeable unless you look closely. |
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07/04/2012 12:51:40 PM · #3 |
| what/who determines who gets the top vote? |
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07/04/2012 12:54:55 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by LanndonKane:
his image is brighter than yours. composition is also nicer. jags aren't quite that noticeable unless you look closely. |
With due respect....his composition is nicer? He stitched 3-4 separate images...the perspective on the lightning is ridiculous...there's an oversaturated dark stormy sky in the back and bright clear day up front...and the jaggedy edges around the bridge and even the sydney building, are instantly obvious to me.
Sorry...I guess we just differ in opinion.
I still just can't believe it. |
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07/04/2012 12:56:18 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
what/who determines who gets the top vote? |
Images go against each other in "duels". Each voter is presented one image against another...one on the left, and one on the right. You can't tell who entered it, and you simply vote for the one you like better. As your image score increases, you are pitted against better and better images.
Message edited by author 2012-07-04 13:01:04. |
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07/04/2012 12:58:47 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by cdpayne:
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
what/who determines who gets the top vote? |
Imaged go against each other in "duels". Each voter is presented one image against another...one on the left, and one on the right. You can't tell who entered it, and you simmply vote for the one you like better. As your image score increases, you are pitted against better and better images. |
that's a pretty good system. |
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07/04/2012 01:03:46 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by LanndonKane:
Originally posted by cdpayne:
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
what/who determines who gets the top vote? |
Imaged go against each other in "duels". Each voter is presented one image against another...one on the left, and one on the right. You can't tell who entered it, and you simmply vote for the one you like better. As your image score increases, you are pitted against better and better images. |
that's a pretty good system. |
Yeah...usually it's very fair...and many times I have been forced to re-look at my own photos that did not do well in this competition, and was able to learn from the failure. But this....the only thing I can think of is somehow he managed to cheat a TON of votes his way. I hate to imply that when I don't know that at all, but it's the only thing that makes sense. The same people that enter photos there, are most of the voters...since you earn points needed to enter contests, by voting on other contests. |
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07/04/2012 01:07:05 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by cdpayne:
Originally posted by LanndonKane:
Originally posted by cdpayne:
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
what/who determines who gets the top vote? |
Imaged go against each other in "duels". Each voter is presented one image against another...one on the left, and one on the right. You can't tell who entered it, and you simmply vote for the one you like better. As your image score increases, you are pitted against better and better images. |
that's a pretty good system. |
Yeah...usually it's very fair...and many times I have been forced to re-look at my own photos that did not do well in this competition, and was able to learn from the failure. But this....the only thing I can think of is somehow he managed to cheat a TON of votes his way. I hate to imply that when I don't know that at all, but it's the only thing that makes sense. The same people that enter photos there, are most of the voters...since you earn points needed to enter contests, by voting on other contests. |
yeahh i dont know about that. i think i would have clicked his, im sure other people would and did as well. |
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07/04/2012 01:10:17 PM · #9 |
Personally, I think both photos are junk.
Given the system in place over there, I'm sure people vote extremely quickly. Assuming that, it's not hard to see how the picture of Sydney harbor would tally up many votes. Its got lightning.
Message edited by author 2012-07-04 14:04:54. |
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07/04/2012 01:11:03 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by LanndonKane:
Originally posted by cdpayne:
Originally posted by LanndonKane:
Originally posted by cdpayne:
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
what/who determines who gets the top vote? |
Imaged go against each other in "duels". Each voter is presented one image against another...one on the left, and one on the right. You can't tell who entered it, and you simmply vote for the one you like better. As your image score increases, you are pitted against better and better images. |
that's a pretty good system. |
Yeah...usually it's very fair...and many times I have been forced to re-look at my own photos that did not do well in this competition, and was able to learn from the failure. But this....the only thing I can think of is somehow he managed to cheat a TON of votes his way. I hate to imply that when I don't know that at all, but it's the only thing that makes sense. The same people that enter photos there, are most of the voters...since you earn points needed to enter contests, by voting on other contests. |
yeahh i dont know about that. i think i would have clicked his, im sure other people would and did as well. |
Believe it or not, I'm glad to hear what you're saying....so if I get you right, you would have voted for his image over many others? As a fellow photographer, I'm just curios about that. When I look at his image....I see a really poorly done collage, so immediately faked that I can't get past it. My immediate thought is that it's an insult to good or even average photography.
Message edited by author 2012-07-04 13:12:01. |
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07/04/2012 01:12:43 PM · #11 |
In my view yours is equally as unreal as his.
Not really sure why you have posted this in DPC. |
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07/04/2012 01:13:51 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Venser:
Personally, I think both photos are junk.
Given the system in place over there, I'm sure people vote extremely quickly. Assuming that, it's not hard to see how the picture of Sydney harbor would tally up many votes. It's got lightning. |
Well, sorry to hear you didn't like mine...but I can take that...lots of opinions out there.
I do get the quick voting mentality....I vote pretty quickly, because my eye picks things out quickly in photographs...which is why I saw this one and was shocked at it so quickly. |
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07/04/2012 01:14:13 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Tiny:
In my view yours is equally as unreal as his.
Not really sure why you have posted this in DPC. |
How is it unreal? The entire photo is from one scene...unaltered in the content. Of course levels were adjusted, as we all do with our photos many times. But nothing was stitched, replaced, or cloned in or out....at all...and yes, I have the RAW files to show that.
I posted it in this forum because it's a photography forum. Not specifically just for DPC talk.
Message edited by author 2012-07-04 13:30:49. |
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07/04/2012 01:16:48 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by cdpayne:
Originally posted by LanndonKane:
Originally posted by cdpayne:
Originally posted by LanndonKane:
Originally posted by cdpayne:
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
what/who determines who gets the top vote? |
Imaged go against each other in "duels". Each voter is presented one image against another...one on the left, and one on the right. You can't tell who entered it, and you simmply vote for the one you like better. As your image score increases, you are pitted against better and better images. |
that's a pretty good system. |
Yeah...usually it's very fair...and many times I have been forced to re-look at my own photos that did not do well in this competition, and was able to learn from the failure. But this....the only thing I can think of is somehow he managed to cheat a TON of votes his way. I hate to imply that when I don't know that at all, but it's the only thing that makes sense. The same people that enter photos there, are most of the voters...since you earn points needed to enter contests, by voting on other contests. |
yeahh i dont know about that. i think i would have clicked his, im sure other people would and did as well. |
Believe it or not, I'm glad to hear what you're saying....so if I get you right, you would have voted for his image over many others? As a fellow photographer, I'm just curios about that. When I look at his image....I see a really poorly done collage, so immediately faked that I can't get past it. My immediate thought is that it's an insult to good or even average photography. |
it seems like an analogue to an expert editing challenge. i wouldn't say it's an amazing collage, but i don't think it was constructed to look like a collage. it does have aspects of photorealism (i wouldnt have noticed a lot of the images were separate right away, except for the lightning). i can easily see the aspects of yours people didn't like, and i can see the aspects of the other one that were appealing. yours is dark, the foreground is cluttered and not very interesting, and the colours aren't the greatest. his has nice punchy colours, seems a bit sharper overall (p.s.: i don't know how you resize your photographs, but DO NOT use bicubic sharper like photoshop suggests when sizing down. always use bilinear, it preserves the image quality much better. try it now and see), and has a more interesting composition in terms of the shapes and elements that contribute to the design. |
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07/04/2012 01:28:46 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by LanndonKane:
Originally posted by cdpayne:
Originally posted by LanndonKane:
Originally posted by cdpayne:
Originally posted by LanndonKane:
Originally posted by cdpayne:
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
what/who determines who gets the top vote? |
Imaged go against each other in "duels". Each voter is presented one image against another...one on the left, and one on the right. You can't tell who entered it, and you simmply vote for the one you like better. As your image score increases, you are pitted against better and better images. |
that's a pretty good system. |
Yeah...usually it's very fair...and many times I have been forced to re-look at my own photos that did not do well in this competition, and was able to learn from the failure. But this....the only thing I can think of is somehow he managed to cheat a TON of votes his way. I hate to imply that when I don't know that at all, but it's the only thing that makes sense. The same people that enter photos there, are most of the voters...since you earn points needed to enter contests, by voting on other contests. |
yeahh i dont know about that. i think i would have clicked his, im sure other people would and did as well. |
Believe it or not, I'm glad to hear what you're saying....so if I get you right, you would have voted for his image over many others? As a fellow photographer, I'm just curios about that. When I look at his image....I see a really poorly done collage, so immediately faked that I can't get past it. My immediate thought is that it's an insult to good or even average photography. |
it seems like an analogue to an expert editing challenge. i wouldn't say it's an amazing collage, but i don't think it was constructed to look like a collage. it does have aspects of photorealism (i wouldnt have noticed a lot of the images were separate right away, except for the lightning). i can easily see the aspects of yours people didn't like, and i can see the aspects of the other one that were appealing. yours is dark, the foreground is cluttered and not very interesting, and the colours aren't the greatest. his has nice punchy colours, seems a bit sharper overall (p.s.: i don't know how you resize your photographs, but DO NOT use bicubic sharper like photoshop suggests when sizing down. always use bilinear, it preserves the image quality much better. try it now and see), and has a more interesting composition in terms of the shapes and elements that contribute to the design. |
I appreciate your well thought out replies. The thing is...these are supposed to be actual photos. They have a photoshop category for the kind of collage he did. You're supposed to enter photos of one particular scene. Similar to advance editing rules here...but a little less strict, if you will. I do understand his is punchier, and funny enough that's part of what made it so obviously fake to me, in so many areas of the image.
One thing I mentioned earlier is that I've made some minor adjustments to mine from the results, I desaturated come of the yellow in the foreground and brightened it up a bit, which doesn't show here, since it's the older version. I think the foreground is a persona opinion kind of thing. I like the dinghies in the front and think they add depth and interest...sort of putting a story in your head, that they're waiting for someone to take them out there. I've had a lot of really great responses to that effect....but I want to be clear that I appreciate your constructive criticism just as much.
I don't use photoshop, so I'm not familiar with it's resizing. I use Corel.
Message edited by author 2012-07-04 13:31:49. |
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07/04/2012 01:37:28 PM · #16 |
| Makes you appreciate the oppressive rule structure here huh? |
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07/04/2012 01:43:26 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Makes you appreciate the oppressive rule structure here huh? |
You know....yeah...it really does...lol. At least here...when I get my arse handed to me, it's by amazing photographers....every single time. |
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07/04/2012 01:45:43 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Makes you appreciate the oppressive rule structure here huh? |
I shall be promptly reporting this and citing a breach of article 3B-1AA. Good day. |
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07/04/2012 01:45:58 PM · #19 |
Seems to me that the voting systems both there and here are merely measures of popular appeal and do not always reflect artistic value or photographic worth. Here we have some other metrics and recognitions that we can use to measure whether or not an image was successful, even if it misses the mass appeal target.
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07/04/2012 01:50:22 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Seems to me that the voting systems both there and here are merely measures of popular appeal and do not always reflect artistic value or photographic worth. Here we have some other metrics and recognitions that we can use to measure whether or not an image was successful, even if it misses the mass appeal target. |
+1 |
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07/04/2012 02:01:33 PM · #21 |
Christopher, I have a couple of problems with your image, including the color cast which you say you removed, and the murky tonal levels, which you also say you addressed. I'd love to see the improved version.
But for me those are only part of the problem. My attention is split because I'm not sure which is the subject. Is it the dinghies, is it the far shoreline? There is also a very distracting dark blurry area in the left foreground and a large shadow extending to the boat. The scene is nice but but not especially, well, special.
You opponent's is much more focused in all of these areas: we know exactly what the subject is, how he feels about it, and all the elements in the image support his vision.
That it went up against yours in a non-collage duel is unfair and I would take issue with the site administrators. But yes, if I had voted, I would have selected his over yours. |
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07/04/2012 03:14:42 PM · #22 |
| I guess my eye is not very discriminating, I can't see alot of the things you are pointing out about his photo, I actually enjoyed it quite a bit. |
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07/04/2012 03:27:20 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
Christopher, I have a couple of problems with your image, including the color cast which you say you removed, and the murky tonal levels, which you also say you addressed. I'd love to see the improved version.
But for me those are only part of the problem. My attention is split because I'm not sure which is the subject. Is it the dinghies, is it the far shoreline? There is also a very distracting dark blurry area in the left foreground and a large shadow extending to the boat. The scene is nice but but not especially, well, special.
You opponent's is much more focused in all of these areas: we know exactly what the subject is, how he feels about it, and all the elements in the image support his vision.
That it went up against yours in a non-collage duel is unfair and I would take issue with the site administrators. But yes, if I had voted, I would have selected his over yours. |
Tangy's review is spot on.
+1
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07/04/2012 03:28:15 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
I guess my eye is not very discriminating, I can't see alot of the things you are pointing out about his photo, I actually enjoyed it quite a bit. |
+1 |
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07/04/2012 03:29:22 PM · #25 |
Here's the problem with online photography competitions:
More often than not the people voting are not voting for the best technical image. They are voting for the feeling the image gives them. You, as a photographer, are hoping for a technical competition and that's rarely what you get. The "sexier" the image, the higher the votes. If you take an image of a pretty girl, for instance, you'll likelly score higher than taking a picture of a fat girl, even if the fat girl image is technically better. If you take a cell phone picture of something miraculous you'll score higher than if you have the most technical image of a less dramatic scene.
Also, more often than not, the contest isn't in an art gallery where people linger around an image and study the details. They're online, drinking beer, and moving quickly. The votes come fast and furious and small unpolished details get totally overlooked.
The majority of the time you're also dealing with people who lack artistic depth. For instance, if you asked them how they like such and such website design they'd respond, "you should make the logo bigger". Cheesy appeals to them. These are the people who can't tell the difference between a technical photo and a shit collage. They see lightning and a misplaced Sydney Opera House and some part of their brain starts clapping.
Unless the "judging' is tightly controlled, submitting your images to an internet photography competition is a crap shoot. I'm not the greatest photographer on Earth, but I know good photography, good illustration, and good art when I see it and can vote accordingly. The problem is that I'm not the majority. |
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