Why do people hate borders? - DPChallenge Forums

08/22/2004 02:19:55 AM · #1

Hi. Most of my submissions have had borders on them. I personally like them and will continue to use them if I like them on a particular photo. As an retired wedding photographer, I feel that if you were selling a print to a customer, you would have a matting board and/or a frame to enhance the image. Why do borders get such a bagging on this site? I have noticed other people's photos with borders also get a bagging (so it's not just mine lol). If anyone can shed some light on this for me, I would appreciate it. THANKS.

soup

Canon EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 II

08/22/2004 02:26:30 AM · #2

i would prefer to chose my own matte.

if you want to add a border keep it either black or white.

pearcer

Canon EOS-20D

08/22/2004 02:29:39 AM · #3

Hey Soup, I used a black boarder and still got a bagging. Some people just hate them I guess.....

Brad

Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

08/22/2004 02:38:31 AM · #4

Sometimes they work:

This was more of a concept shot than a fine
photograph, and may be why it worked here.

Message edited by author 2004-08-22 03:57:14.

soup

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED

08/22/2004 02:38:37 AM · #5

dont add one and you can be sure you wont get a bagging for a bad border...

joebok

Fujifilm X100F

08/22/2004 02:43:51 AM · #6

I don't hate borders, and I would not score just because a picture had one. However, I think that they can be dangerous. Generally you want your border to subtly enhance the photo and not distract. A good border may very well not be noticed by a lot of people, but I would not expect it to raise a score much if at all. However, a border that is off, even just a little bit, will tend to draw undue attention and get voted down.

On the other hand, voting down a picture without a border would be relatively much rarer. So the odds would, in my estimation, favor going borderless.

pearcer

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 II

08/22/2004 03:15:06 AM · #7

I agree, if a photo needs a boarder then it's ok to add a boarder. Looking at the comments on some of my photo's there seems to be some people that are very narrow minded when it coms to a boarder. I had very high praise from 4 respected site council members in a row then the next comment said the boarder was sh!t and they voted me down because they didn't like boarders. I think that is a bit pathetic because we are voting on photo's, not if the photo has a boarder or not. (if you get my drift)To me it's like hanging the Mona Lisa on a wall without a frame. Some photo's just need a boarder to convey what the photographer was trying to achieve.

Phileine

Pentax K100D Super

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

08/22/2004 03:25:26 AM · #8

The problem with borders is that it can easily be distracting, or trying to be "too funny". I don't hate borders in general, they can often add something to a picture, but they can sometimes be really a loss.

just curious pearcer and foxy, I looked at your submission, but saw only one picture with a frame for both of you, and no comments on the borders on those. So where can I find those comments?

Node

Nikon D300

Tamron SP AF 17-35mm f/2.8-4 Di LD Aspherical IF for Nikon

08/22/2004 03:52:11 AM · #9

Hey Ross

Your VP photo was enhanced I believe by the border that you added. That is not always the case though. Because of the limited size avaiable it will make the photo smaller in some cases and also lends itself to personal preference.

Simply put you are adding something extra to be voted on and leaving yourself open for being voted down simply because someone does not like "that" border or borders at all so why even have them.

For photos that are to be sold there is no problem in you adding borders at all as that is seperate to the challenges.

Bob

foxycoxy2au

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Nikon

08/22/2004 06:42:59 AM · #10

Originally posted by Phileine:

I had a pic DQ'ed for other reasons in the Blue Moon challenge that got a caning because of the border. Everyone (bar the person who nominated me for DQ lol) liked the pic (it was an abstract) but hated the simple black border. I just wanted to know why people objected to borders. I have seen comments on other people's work in the VP challenge about their borders and voters not liking them. I'll continue to use them. I like them and I guess that counts above all else?

moodville

Nikon D100

08/22/2004 08:54:19 AM · #11

I like borders and I use them. I dont like images without borders, for the most part although depends on the image, they can look quite snapshotty. To me it's part of the presentation. I've often gotten comments saying they voted my image down because of my border. That's fine, clearly their opinion, but just like comments that say they voted my image down for other things related to personal taste ("I would prefer that was a duck and not a dog, oh and make the whole image purple instead of blue, and add some bubbles, that's a great image!") I mostly just ignore them. I personally dont vote down an image for the border or lack thereof. I find the image inside the border to be far more important.

blemt

Nikon D70

08/22/2004 08:54:45 AM · #12

borders are a tough thing to add. Once you add a border you make it part of the image. As such, people are going to take it's addition into consideration when voting. People vote on the whole image, and historically the site ultraliterals do not like borders.

I don't mind simple and subtle borders. If it's too large, often it turns me off the image.

dwterry

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

08/22/2004 09:06:47 AM · #13

I have a picture that has received 18 comments. Pretty much every one of them loved the picture itself, with only a couple of comments about things to improve within the picture.

The border on the other hand??? Of 18 comments:

- 1 loved the border
- 2 did not mention the border
- 15 disparaged the border (one went so far as to say it was a "disaster")

Okay, okay... live and learn. DPC'ers hate borders. When this challenge is over, I'm going to go up to the chalkboard and write one hundred times:

I will not use borders
I will not use borders
I will not use borders
I will not use borders
I will not use borders
I will not use borders
I will not use borders
I will not use borders
I will not use borders
I will not use borders
... 90 to go :-)

dsidwell

Canon EOS-5D

08/22/2004 10:18:50 AM · #14

I like borders, if they don't call attention to themselves. In this photo, even though it won a ribbon, I still learned my lesson because the border doesn't just frame the photo, it distracts from the photo:

However, I think the border in this image works, because it makes a separation from our world and the virtual world of the photograph:

But nowadays, as I frame my photos and as folks purchase them, the border gets in the way. Most mats fit standard photos well, but if a border is added, it does not give the customer a choice: the border is there and doesn't need to be. So I do not generally put borders on my photos anymore.

dsidwell

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

08/22/2004 10:21:08 AM · #15

Generally speaking, I do not feel that DPCer hate borders. Some dislike them, but the number of ribbon-winning images with borders is high--perhaps higher than images without. Does someone want to do the math?

singale

Nikon D1X

08/22/2004 10:31:56 AM · #16

its all depend on what the picutre is of. i mean , border wont look nice in all the pictres and some they look great , i try in photohop and then decide to which border what color or else no border.

bottom line , it looks good , i love it.

mrorange002

Canon EOS-5D

08/22/2004 10:39:56 AM · #17

I like borders,
as long as they are simple

Message edited by author 2004-08-22 10:40:20.

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

08/22/2004 10:44:52 AM · #18

I only see one user comment that suggests they didn't like the border. I don't see how this translates into you or anyone else "taking a bagging" for borders. In fact, one of the ribon-winners from Feet had a border.

That said, borders can be a risky proposition. A bad border is likely to hurt your score. Ideally, the border should enhance the presentation of your entry.

-Terry

soup

08/22/2004 11:10:48 AM · #19

if nothing else - a border takes away some of the resolution of the posted image due to the size restrictions. the photo needs to be smaller than it has to be to accomodate the border.
unless its just a hairline type border.

pique_moi

Nikon D1H

08/22/2004 11:38:47 AM · #20

Yes, I agree

Elemmennope

Olympus 14-45mm f/3.5-5.6 Zuiko Digital ED

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

08/22/2004 11:54:03 AM · #21

The problem is with borders that overwhelm the photo itself, or actually pull the eye AWAY from the photo -- too big, too bold, too colorful. You want people to look at your intended subject, and not the edge of the photograph. Don't do something that draws the eyes that direction.

annasense

Olympus E-500 EVOLT

08/22/2004 11:56:04 AM · #22

In my opinion, the border can sometimes act as the "matting" for the digital photo. I wouldn't want to hang a photo on my wall without a mat, and sometimes I don't want to post them on here without that finishing touch, either. Something I'm trying is adding the border to the digital photo, but removing it if I put it up as a print.

Nelzie

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

08/22/2004 12:04:21 PM · #23

It is all dependent upon the border itself. Loud, bright, high contrast colors really detract from an image. Borders should be kept to a subtle minimum or not be included in all.

In your Neon entry (I only know which one is yours due to a PM conversation we had about it) your image would have been much better recieved with a plain black, subtle dark grey or no border at all.

foxycoxy2au