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08/23/2004 04:51:47 PM · #26 |
| After looking at some of the borders in the Neon challenge, where the border had a brighter, more neon color than the subject, I realize that in many cases the border represents an illegal manipultion of the picture. To the extent that the border actually adds to the attractiveness of the picture it can be seen as an element that was added in the image editor program, not part of the original photo. That should be as illegal as, say, adding water droplets to a flower or creating an interesting sky by drawing it in. I don't object to a single black, white or grey line where it helps to separate the photo from the background. Anything more seems to be excessive enhancement. |
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08/23/2004 05:39:11 PM · #27 |
This thread has really been an education. I'm one that always thinks a picture makes a better presentation with a border. I've only not used one once (for the Hope submission -- so we'll see how that goes) -- but I have gotten LOTS of comments that they didn't like the border, and only one that said "the border works here". Soooooooooooooooo, I'm going to do like dwterry:
I will not use borders
I will not use borders
I will not use borders :)
Message edited by author 2004-08-23 17:40:00. |
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08/23/2004 05:45:12 PM · #28 |
I don't like borders that overpower the image itself.
If my focus is pulled continuously towards the border rather than the image then the border is a negative addition, in my POV.
The border shouldn't be the focal point, rather it should enhance the actual image and serve to contain my focus within it. It should also balance or complement the tones or colours within the image in a way that might not be achieved by the neutral grey default background.
I see far too many borders that do detract from the image rather than complement it.
When I vote I am judging the entirety of the image file that has been submitted. If the photographer has chosen to add a border then I will include that in my consideration and vote accordingly if it has a negative impact on my enjoyment of the image.
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08/23/2004 06:15:09 PM · #29 |
JUST A STAT: (IF I ADDED CORRECTLY)
Out of the 68 challenges this year each awarding 3 ribbons per challenge that equals 204 ribbons. Out of 204 ribbons only 74 photographs had boarders, thats 36% of the top 3 winners. If my quick calculations are correct and believe me the margin of error is endless, you are twice as likely to win a ribbon without a boarder (with a great photograph) than with a boarder.
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08/23/2004 07:12:31 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by SDW65:
JUST A STAT: (IF I ADDED CORRECTLY)
Out of the 68 challenges this year each awarding 3 ribbons per challenge that equals 204 ribbons. Out of 204 ribbons only 74 photographs had boarders, thats 36% of the top 3 winners. If my quick calculations are correct and believe me the margin of error is endless, you are twice as likely to win a ribbon without a boarder (with a great photograph) than with a boarder. |
Nope, I believe your logic is faulty. Consider this: Suppose ALL images with borders won ribbons - ergo 100% of the bordered images got ribbons. (I know it's not true, but it is for argumet's sake only.)
I believe the correct analytical way to do this would be a percent of borderless prints that ribboned vs percent of bordered prints.
I believe your logic should just prove out that the ratio or borders to no borders is about 2-1...on the whole, and including ribbon winners.
-Tom-
Message edited by author 2004-08-23 19:14:22.
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08/23/2004 07:28:49 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by photom:
Originally posted by SDW65:
JUST A STAT: (IF I ADDED CORRECTLY)
Out of the 68 challenges this year each awarding 3 ribbons per challenge that equals 204 ribbons. Out of 204 ribbons only 74 photographs had boarders, thats 36% of the top 3 winners. If my quick calculations are correct and believe me the margin of error is endless, you are twice as likely to win a ribbon without a boarder (with a great photograph) than with a boarder. |
Nope, I believe your logic is faulty. Consider this: Suppose ALL images with borders won ribbons - ergo 100% of the bordered images got ribbons. (I know it's not true, but it is for argumet's sake only.)
I believe the correct analytical way to do this would be a percent of borderless prints that ribboned vs percent of bordered prints.
I believe your logic should just prove out that the ratio or borders to no borders is about 2-1...on the whole, and including ribbon winners.
-Tom- |
Agreed! Thats why I stated in my post that the margin of error was endless. I was board and looked through this years challenge. I guess I had too much time on my hands. I only have one more day till the deadline to enter the HOPE challenge. I have a lot of ideas but cant seem to get the composed. Maybe Im thinking to hard about the challenge so Im just reading the post to take my mind off the challenge. |
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08/23/2004 08:31:25 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by SandyP:
I have gotten LOTS of comments that they didn't like the border, and only one that said "the border works here". Soooooooooooooooo, I'm going to do like dwterry:
I will not use borders
I will not use borders
I will not use borders :) |
I just looked at the comments on your submission... looks like they were as ruthless to you as they were to me. Do you need a shoulder to cry on???
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08/23/2004 08:34:41 PM · #33 |
| Framing just like the cropping of a composition, the right one can enhance the feeling that you are trying to show and the wrong one may not convey the feeling of the subject or distracts from it. |
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08/23/2004 09:12:44 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by dwterry:
Do you need a shoulder to cry on ? |
Normally I would. . . but in addition to "I will not use borders", I've decided to add another one: "I will not value my worth as a human being by what dpChallenge voters think of my pictures" :) :) I'm kind of new, but I really am trying to take it all in stride and not get so personally invested that I can't just take the advice, try to learn from it, and with any luck, maybe next time it'll do better. We'll see on my Hope submission. I actually like it best of all my pictures -- and I didn't use a border. I'll use it as a test :)
But. .. okay I do have to admit that misery does feel a little more comforted in company :)
Message edited by author 2004-08-23 21:18:13. |
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