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09/03/2004 09:20:14 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Graphicfunk, please stick to photography. No offence but I think you’re too old to be discussing politics, at least, your thinking is. The world is not black and white. Conservatism will lead to a collapse of our civilization if we don’t change it. The time of cheap and safe oil is over and its not coming back and everything in the last 150 years is completely built off cheap oil.
Its either change or BE CHANGED. |
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Thank you for your words of wisdom. You speak like a sage who has done extensive soul searching and you appear to carry the day by first saying the world is not black and white and then using the hackeyed black and white quote change or be changed.
While it is true that the world is not black and white, I do not see the satisfaction in anybody making such an elementary statement. It is like me saying the nose and ears were design to accomodate eye glasses.
With one sweeping black and white line you point out that conservatism will lead to collapse. This is quite a statement and I bet you have no knowledge of what conservatism is. You see the majority of Americans are conservative. These are the people who do not believe the government owes them anything. They do not give you the fish, they give instead the fishing pole. The government to us is not a big tit that we milk. All we seek is a government to insure our freedom and safety so that we can go about our personal business. Out fate is in our hands. I know, this scares the Liberals. He seeks equality, wants the playing field levelled. This simply is not life. Nothing great would have come out of mens' journey through life.
The wise man advises the use of the golden mean. This is a very relative truism because it can only be applied according to what each of us know and our experience along with the sum total of our knowledge. You see, each of us fail miserably because we select what we want to see and what we want to believe. We are like voices crying in the dark, hear me, hear me, I have the answer. Is is not funny. |
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09/03/2004 10:01:30 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
I always find it in bad taste to produce art to glorify Religion or our half-ass beliefs in politics. You see, the world divides quickly into opposing camps. The camps than loose themselves in their folly and they develop a distinct hate for eachother. It apperas the best thing men do is hate. So all political art and ideas are loved by the choir and hated by the opposition. |
Your preference is noted......... |
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09/03/2004 10:40:58 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
The object of these lies were engineered to create a hatred for Bush. Much like they created a hatred for Reagan.
These people do not understand freedom and they attack and insult the very people who have shed their blood for their very freedom. |
***This is a false statement of YOURS. The most respect and support you can give our troops fighting a false war in Iraq would be to bring them home. I appreciate very much what our military does for us. It's the current administration who has none of their interests in mind and use them like pawns in a game of chess.***
***It's democratic to question and dissent against governments. |
Hmmm. Good to see that you're still able to post, Olyuzi. Since you never responded to the last question I posed to you in the "Appalling New Prison Photos" thread on 9/01, I thought that you had been called out of town or something. But here I see you pushing the same old tiresome solutions: "Bring them home". In case you have forgotten already ( it HAS been over two days ), you had already agreed that we can't just "bring them home" without creating increased ( not decreased ) conflict, potentially even civil war, in Iraq. You then suggested that we would first have to get other countries and the U.N. involved first. Then I responded with this - which you have not answered yet:
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How do we get "more countries and the UN involved"?
Most other countries are being targeted by the Islamic Terrorists both in Iraq ( kidnappings and beheadings of their nationals ) and on their own sovereign soil ( as in the Madrid bombings, for example ). Some are already pulling out of Iraq as a result. What argument can the U.S. provide for them to go back in? For other countries under attack to remain?
The U.N. has already demonstrated that they cut and run as soon as they come under attack. What would entice them to become involved, other than diplomatically - which we already know doesn't solve the problem.
Ron |
***Ron, I"m upstate now and not at my own computer so I can't answer your questions. I will be returning over the weekend and will be happy to respond when I get back...Olyuzi |
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09/03/2004 11:22:35 PM · #29 |
<<< Actually, we did refuse to confront Hitler. World War 2 started in 1938/39. Our response was 'Bad Hitler! You need to give back Poland'. Needless to say, that didn't work too well. We systematically ignored the build up of the German military prior to 1938. After the war started the United States continued to practice a policy of strong isolationism for 2 years. We did provide our allies with some supplies and political support but did not committ troops until 1942 after the attacks on Pearl Harbor. It was 1943 before we had any significant troops in the UK and 1944 before we put troops into Europe. >>>
Actually, we did NOT refuse to confront hitler. Well before Pearl Harbor we banned all trade with Germany, broke off diplomatic relations, expelled their diplomats, and froze all German assets in the US. Sanctions, if you will, long before that term became popular. We basically imposed the same types of sanctions on Japan. These sanctions were about as successful as the sanctions against huessein a half-century later. In fact, it was Japanese anger at these sanctions, especially the banning of the sale of US aviation gasoline outside of the Western Hemisphere, which led to the pre-emptive attack on Pearl Harbor.
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09/03/2004 11:45:00 PM · #30 |
This is a false statement of YOURS. The most respect and support you can give our troops fighting a false war in Iraq would be to bring them home. I appreciate very much what our military does for us. It's the current administration who has none of their interests in mind and use them like pawns in a game of chess.***
***It's democratic to question and dissent against governments.
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Consider the following argument and feel free to allow your pre-fixed ideas to overcome it.
There is an infestation afoot of Militant Holy people who treat us as the infidels. A faction performs 9/11. We truly have no visible country to attack. We feel the need to shake up the infested area. At this time we had an unfinished war with Iraq. I am not going to get into the details that alcaida had contacts with Iraq. Nor about the countries that were economically forced to deal with Iraq. I will also not get in the food for oil project by the crooked UN.
The administration along with the crooked UN had already served ultimatums to Iraq. We did what the Liberals' love to do...engage the enemy on conferences and persuade the enemy to honor their agreements.
The US gets attacked and decides to break up the ring of the above crooked players. In doing so, we shake up the area, subdue another dictator and bring freedom to the populance.
With Iraq out of the way, it narrows the field somewhat. It is Iran that is our biggest problem and they supply the major resistance in Iraq. The picture is very ugly and we may even see our demise unless we can keep one step ahead.
Now, if Iraq were not in violation, then I would grant more weight to your argument. Yes, I know, you oppose, oppose. And you support our troops, but our troops are not proud of your assessment. No, you do not really support them because you do not believe in the need for soldiers and a defense department.
When the enemy hears your words they are comforted in their conviction that they are the chosen and we are dispensible infidels and we have no right to interfere with any country developing any arsenal.
Look, if my neighbor builds a canon aiming at my house, I will deactive the idea before he gets a chance to finish. So Iraq is only an early challenge that if left standing would have complicated things more and Iraq was under violations. It does not require a rocket scientist. Yes, I know, war makes people nervous. It changes our lives, but these are the current vikings that we must deal with. Whether you choose to believe it or not we are in a war that can mean the end of the Good USA if we choose to follow your advise. |
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09/03/2004 11:47:02 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
... You see the majority of Americans are conservative. These are the people who do not believe the government owes them anything... |
Actually, the majority of Americans voted Democratic (or liberal) in the last election.
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09/03/2004 11:50:06 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
lol Ron, classic attack. Comparing me to the president of the most powerful country in the world in standards.. Nice. |
I, for one, do not look at a man's position to determine whether he acts with integrity or not. The man or woman who reads the pressure guage on the nuclear reactor can cause far more catastrophic results by failure to perform responsibly than the CEO of the Energy Company that employs them.
So, to answer your point - yes, I do compare you to the President in standards. Why shouldn't I?
Ron |
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09/04/2004 12:21:04 AM · #33 |
quote=cbeller] Originally posted by graphicfunk:
... You see the majority of Americans are conservative. These are the people who do not believe the government owes them anything... |
Actually, the majority of Americans voted Democratic (or liberal) in the last election. [/quote]
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You are right in pointing this out, but you see the USA is not a democracy. A democracy means the majority rules. So in a room with six men and one woman, the majority can vote and subdued the minority.
The popular vote is pumped up in the states with the biggest influx of immigrants and illegal aliens. These are california, New York and Miami.
The Democrats are quick to add this influx to their voting blocks. They bus them, give them cigarettes or whatever. In fact, good as these people may be, they do not represent the heartland.
To win, you need the total sum electoral votes of each state. One way to know whether the conservatives are ahead is to look at the president, the senate and the congress.
Another way to see it is when you see minority individuaks in high power positions, then you know what conservatism is about.
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09/04/2004 09:59:40 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by cbeller:
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
... You see the majority of Americans are conservative. These are the people who do not believe the government owes them anything... |
Actually, the majority of Americans voted Democratic (or liberal) in the last election. |
If you insist on this absurd argument, then at least get it right - it wasn't "the majority of Americans", it was the majority of VOTING Americans; and you don't know whether they voted Democratic or not - they could have very easily split their ticket. You are inferring "Democratic" based on the number who voted for Al Gore for President in the last election.
First, only 76% of the voting age population are even REGISTERED, and of those, only 67.5 % actually voted. When distilled, that means that only slightly more than 25% of the voting age population of America voted for Al Gore - and 25% is not a "majority of Americans".
Ron |
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09/04/2004 10:32:38 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by cbeller:
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
... You see the majority of Americans are conservative. These are the people who do not believe the government owes them anything... |
Actually, the majority of Americans voted Democratic (or liberal) in the last election. |
No, they didn't. The majority of Americans didn't even bother to vote. |
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09/04/2004 02:17:02 PM · #36 |
Posting this from what a female friend told me today when I asked what she thought of the RNC:
"My favorite part of Mr. Bush's speech was regarding how the government will stay out of people's lives allowing them to make choices...
of course this doesn't include those who want to marry who they love or decide if they want to terminate a pregnancy...some of the most personal CHOICES a person can make.
Keep the government out of my uterus and out of people's bedrooms."
And I say amen! |
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09/04/2004 02:25:27 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Posting this from what a female friend told me today when I asked what she thought of the RNC:
"My favorite part of Mr. Bush's speech was regarding how the government will stay out of people's lives allowing them to make choices...
of course this doesn't include those who want to marry who they love or decide if they want to terminate a pregnancy...some of the most personal CHOICES a person can make.
Keep the government out of my uterus and out of people's bedrooms."
And I say amen! |
Do you also support assisted suicide and euthanasia, a couple of more personal CHOICES a person can make? How about driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol, other personal CHOICEs a person can make? Motorcycle helmets? Seat Belts? Locks on gun cabinets? Child-proof locks on guns? Using DDT on their garden? Selling Drugs? Prostitution? Molesting children? All personal CHOICES - do you support all of them?
Ron
Message edited by author 2004-09-04 14:26:11. |
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09/04/2004 02:59:23 PM · #38 |
Ron you’re starting to get lame.
You actually stated molesting children and DUI as comparisons to having an abortion and marrying someone you love.
Message edited by author 2004-09-04 15:04:48. |
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09/04/2004 03:16:11 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by cbeller:
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
... You see the majority of Americans are conservative. These are the people who do not believe the government owes them anything... |
Actually, the majority of Americans voted Democratic (or liberal) in the last election. |
Friday, Sep. 03, 2004
New York: For the first time since the Presidential race became a two person contest last spring, there is a clear leader, the latest TIME poll shows. If the 2004 election for President were held today, 52% of likely voters surveyed would vote for President George W. Bush, 41% would vote for Democratic nominee John Kerry, and 3% would vote for Ralph Nader, according to a new TIME poll conducted from Aug. 31 to Sept. 2. Poll results are available on TIME.com and will appear in the upcoming issue of TIME magazine, on newsstands Monday, Sept. 6.
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09/04/2004 03:23:14 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Posting this from what a female friend told me today when I asked what she thought of the RNC:
"My favorite part of Mr. Bush's speech was regarding how the government will stay out of people's lives allowing them to make choices...
of course this doesn't include those who want to marry who they love or decide if they want to terminate a pregnancy...some of the most personal CHOICES a person can make.
Keep the government out of my uterus and out of people's bedrooms."
And I say amen! |
Kerry is against gay marriage also. I wouldn't use that as a Bush bash.
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09/04/2004 03:29:47 PM · #41 |
^ Kerry has no intentions of making a constitutional marriage amendment against it. Also, I don’t bash Bush, I state information and facts. The info and facts bash him cause he does a bad job.
Message edited by author 2004-09-04 15:31:17. |
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09/04/2004 04:15:28 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
^ Kerry has no intentions of making a constitutional marriage amendment against it. |
He also has no intentions on making gay marriage possible. If I felt strongly on the issue neither candidate would impress me.
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
he does a bad job. |
Stating a negative opinion about someone is bashing in my book.
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09/04/2004 04:26:22 PM · #43 |
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09/04/2004 04:47:58 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
If the shoe fits.. |
Would you say Kerry has done a good job as a US Senator over the last 20 years? (just curious, I'm not setting up a attack or anything)
I only ask because I notice you spend a lot of time on the forums posting stuff negative to the right/conservative/republican/bush... but I don't recall you posting much positive stuff on Kerry. (Please correct me and many apoligies if I'm wrong)
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09/04/2004 04:57:45 PM · #45 |
louddog, in response to your reply about the poll in TIME magazine.
The poll shows Bush @ 46%, Kerry @44%, Nader 5%, and 5% don't know. |
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09/04/2004 05:25:50 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by stormshadow:
louddog, in response to your reply about the poll in TIME magazine.
The poll shows Bush @ 46%, Kerry @44%, Nader 5%, and 5% don't know. |
I quoted Time.com, copied and pasted from their site???
//www.time.com/time/press_releases/article/0,8599,692562,00.html
Newsweek and MSNBC.com has it wrong too then.
//www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5915140/site/newsweek/
Message edited by author 2004-09-04 17:29:50.
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09/04/2004 05:29:46 PM · #47 |
I went to TIME.com like you said and this is what i found.
This graph is also slated to appear in the same issue that you described.
//www.time.com/time/covers/1101040906/pollbox.html# |
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09/04/2004 05:30:14 PM · #48 |
I edited my post to include the link
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09/04/2004 05:30:49 PM · #49 |
sorry about the link, but that is the url.
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09/04/2004 05:32:27 PM · #50 |
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