Why do people do this? - DPChallenge Forums

10/04/2013 02:06:05 PM · #1

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone specific, but time after time, I see people talk about how "bad" their scores are and how "mean" voters are; they hate on "troll voters" an get so wound up, they say they're gonna stop entering challenges, or are leaving DPC.
REALLY? Is it an attention thing?
I just don't get it. Either leave or stay. But stop complaining and "threatening" to leave.

Again, no one specific person this is aimed towards, just in general.

(Let's see who gets offended and PMs me or rants in the thread about how mean I am). :P

10/04/2013 02:14:29 PM · #2

It's easy to say you're not directing it at anyone, but since I did just post something...

And for the record. I didn't "threaten" to leave. I just stated that I'm done with challenges. It's not a threat and I'm not going anywhere. And I'm certainly not looking for attention. I really didn't think anyone would even notice. So, why exactly did you post this?

10/04/2013 02:14:43 PM · #3

Denielle, I'm not even gonna go there because when I join discussions like that it always ends bad. I will only say I feel ya :) (I'm talking from the past observations. I don't even know what's going on right now. I'm not watching too many threads.)

Message edited by author 2013-10-04 14:26:13.

10/04/2013 02:22:01 PM · #4

Originally posted by Kelli:

If I wanted to direct it at you, I would have mentioned you specifically in my post. But I wanted to make sure you didn't think I was posting ABOUT YOU since you did just say something about it.

I'm posting it because its useless for people to constantly complain about their scores. It's not gonna increase your score, and if anything, will continue to bring the community to a decline, fill it with negativity.

So rather than people getting so bent out of shape about a 1 or 2 vote, or having a 5 or sub-5 score; how about not give in to the misery others are trying to cause? Just a thought.

hahn23

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

10/04/2013 02:23:52 PM · #5

Kelli has entered more challenges (745) than I have. But, i've entered quite a few (718). The environment at DPC is MUCH different now than ever before. Some members have told me it's because of newbies casting low votes. I don't know if that is true. Everyone is entitled to their own voting scale. However, the average vote here is 5.5000...... not 4.5000.

10/04/2013 02:28:10 PM · #6

Originally posted by Denielle:

[quote=Kelli] It's easy to say you're not directing it at anyone, but since I did just post something...

And for the record. I didn't "threaten" to leave. I just stated that I'm done with challenges. It's not a threat and I'm not going anywhere. And I'm certainly not looking for attention. I really didn't think anyone would even notice. So, why exactly did you post this?

Originally posted by Kelli:

4.5

I really think I'm done...

Really? Tell me what is so negative about this post? I rarely post my scores, high or low. I can't remember the last time I "complained" about scores or was negative.

What I find amusing is how people state that something isn't directly "at anyone in particular" when everyone knows full well that it is. How's that for negativity? Now, I guess I should stop posting in the forums as well.

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

10/04/2013 02:29:51 PM · #7

Originally posted by hahn23:

Thank you. That actually helps. I haven't been here too long, unlike some other veteran DPCers. So I can understand that, if a swarm of newbies come in over the years and vote lower than what ones used to, it would upset some.

But, with the overload of technology now, an the fact that almost anyone can afford a decent camera, and call themselves a photographer, hasn't the quality of images changed, and the "wow factor" in general?

Hope this made sense, trying to do this on my phone right now. Lol

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

10/04/2013 02:31:25 PM · #8

Originally posted by hahn23:

And I suspect I just left you a comment detailing why you're sitting where you are. For me, perhaps, it was (barely) above average, but at least two points of that was due to your title (If I'm right about your entry).

Maybe voting has changed, especially if you're still at the same skill level you were three or four years ago. DPC's expectations have increased, that much is true - and sometimes there is a trend towards more emotive photography, and less commercial/eye candy/technical preference than there was a few years ago.

In any case, I do wish that people would embrace the low scores, and instead of blaming the voters, would instead recognize that they failed to meet some requirement or desire of the voters - or perhaps that just the standard was so high that it wasn't a good race for them.

Nothing wrong with low scores, or low voters - probably more 'good' and 'helpful' than cheery comments and high scores by every measure. Admittedly though, they are less encouraging.

10/04/2013 02:33:22 PM · #9

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by hahn23:
Kelli has entered more challenges (745) than I have. But, i've entered quite a few (718). The environment at DPC is MUCH different now than ever before. Some members have told me it's because of newbies casting low votes. I don't know if that is true. Everyone is entitled to their own voting scale. However, the average vote here is 5.5000...... not 4.5000.

And I suspect I just left you a comment detailing why you're sitting where you are. For me, perhaps, it was (barely) above average, but at least two points of that was due to your title (If I'm right about your entry).

Maybe voting has changed, especially if you're still at the same skill level you were three or four years ago. DPC's expectations have increased, that much is true - and sometimes there is a trend towards more emotive photography, and less commercial/eye candy/technical preference than there was a few years ago.

In any case, I do wish that people would embrace the low scores, and instead of blaming the voters, would instead recognize that they failed to meet some requirement or desire of the voters - or perhaps that just the standard was so high that it wasn't a good race for them.

Nothing wrong with low scores, or low voters - probably more 'good' and 'helpful' than cheery comments and high scores by every measure. Admittedly though, they are less encouraging.

Nope, no comment from you. ;P

10/04/2013 02:33:25 PM · #10

Originally posted by Denielle:

I checked, and our average vote cast is above 5.3

Denielle, so it seems like we are doing it kinda right according to some people's standards?

hahn23

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

10/04/2013 02:35:12 PM · #11

Originally posted by beatabg:

Originally posted by Denielle:
Thank you. That actually helps. I haven't been here too long, unlike some other veteran DPCers. So I can understand that, if a swarm of newbies come in over the years and vote lower than what ones used to, it would upset some.

I checked, and our average vote cast is above 5.3 Denielle, so it seems like we are doing it kinda right according to some people's standards?

Sure, you guys are okay. How do you feel about the members with a low 4 to high 3 vote cast average?

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

10/04/2013 02:39:03 PM · #12

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by hahn23:
Kelli has entered more challenges (745) than I have. But, i've entered quite a few (718). The environment at DPC is MUCH different now than ever before. Some members have told me it's because of newbies casting low votes. I don't know if that is true. Everyone is entitled to their own voting scale. However, the average vote here is 5.5000...... not 4.5000.

And I suspect I just left you a comment detailing why you're sitting where you are. For me, perhaps, it was (barely) above average, but at least two points of that was due to your title (If I'm right about your entry).

Maybe voting has changed, especially if you're still at the same skill level you were three or four years ago. DPC's expectations have increased, that much is true - and sometimes there is a trend towards more emotive photography, and less commercial/eye candy/technical preference than there was a few years ago.

In any case, I do wish that people would embrace the low scores, and instead of blaming the voters, would instead recognize that they failed to meet some requirement or desire of the voters - or perhaps that just the standard was so high that it wasn't a good race for them.

Nothing wrong with low scores, or low voters - probably more 'good' and 'helpful' than cheery comments and high scores by every measure. Admittedly though, they are less encouraging.

Nope, no comment from you. ;P

LOL.. I meant on Richard's image of course.

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

10/04/2013 02:41:00 PM · #13

I wasn't even complaining about my score. If it's voted low, that's obviously what it deserves. I'm just done trying to compete. It isn't worth how badly it undermines my confidence at this point in my life. I'm not a professional. This is just supposed to be fun for me, and it isn't anymore. I'm hoping a good side challenge pops up that I can play in.

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

10/04/2013 02:47:00 PM · #14

Originally posted by Kelli:

Well, then, forgive me for saying so, but you're running the wrong race.

You know how many marathoners enter with real hopes to finish in the top few? Not many. For most, it's really more about making the finish, not where you finish.

Here, you can enjoy the added bonus of shooting and sharing what you enjoy - shoot a series, tell us a story that unfolds over 20 challenges, whatever. Do something for you, and just use this as a platform to share it, knowing that others are guaranteed to see and think about it(even if only for a second)..

Run the race to stay in shape and to enjoy the variety of reactions, to get that feedback, to share, to provoke, whatever. Stop worrying about something so mundane as winning, there are more important things.

Personally, I'd hate to lose your participation in challenges, but recognize that you're absolutely the type to do as you darn well please. So, do as you please, but please do consider all the alternatives, and the potential awesomeness you'd be walking away from.

hahn23

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

10/04/2013 02:50:56 PM · #15

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by hahn23:
Kelli has entered more challenges (745) than I have. But, i've entered quite a few (718). The environment at DPC is MUCH different now than ever before. Some members have told me it's because of newbies casting low votes. I don't know if that is true. Everyone is entitled to their own voting scale. However, the average vote here is 5.5000...... not 4.5000.

And I suspect I just left you a comment detailing why you're sitting where you are. For me, perhaps, it was (barely) above average, but at least two points of that was due to your title (If I'm right about your entry).

Maybe voting has changed, especially if you're still at the same skill level you were three or four years ago. DPC's expectations have increased, that much is true - and sometimes there is a trend towards more emotive photography, and less commercial/eye candy/technical preference than there was a few years ago.

In any case, I do wish that people would embrace the low scores, and instead of blaming the voters, would instead recognize that they failed to meet some requirement or desire of the voters - or perhaps that just the standard was so high that it wasn't a good race for them.

Nothing wrong with low scores, or low voters - probably more 'good' and 'helpful' than cheery comments and high scores by every measure. Admittedly though, they are less encouraging.

Nope, no comment from you. ;P

LOL.. I meant on Richard's image of course.

Cory, no comment from you, or anyone, for that matter. Your comments are always welcome, but you've misguessed someone else's image as one of mine.

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

10/04/2013 02:54:02 PM · #16

Originally posted by hahn23:

Sure, you guys are okay. How do you feel about the members with a low 4 to high 3 vote cast average?

I believe the average vote cast should be at around 5.0 or up, and should be distributed like a bell curve if possible (it is a 1-10 scale after all). However, a huge part of that depends on the quality of images and how they meet the challenge.

You mentioned the newbies before. If someone is just beginning and doesn't know much about photography, composition, aesthetics, and the variety of things people can do with editing software, the way they vote might be a little different, I suppose. I don't think they should be chastised though, because everyone is/was a beginner at some point. DPC is a pretty good place to learn and improve.

Also, I don't think the number of challenges one entered tells a lot in some instances. I could start entering every challenge from now on since I can submit anything I want no matter the quality or the subject. And by the way with this statement I'm not trying to attack anyone. I'm just saying that it could be a possibility. I have a lot of respect for many on here who have been entering a ton of challenges with amazing shots.

ETA. What I wrote is just my opinion.

Message edited by author 2013-10-04 15:25:33.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

10/04/2013 03:04:38 PM · #17

Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by hahn23:
Kelli has entered more challenges (745) than I have. But, i've entered quite a few (718). The environment at DPC is MUCH different now than ever before. Some members have told me it's because of newbies casting low votes. I don't know if that is true. Everyone is entitled to their own voting scale. However, the average vote here is 5.5000...... not 4.5000.

And I suspect I just left you a comment detailing why you're sitting where you are. For me, perhaps, it was (barely) above average, but at least two points of that was due to your title (If I'm right about your entry).

Maybe voting has changed, especially if you're still at the same skill level you were three or four years ago. DPC's expectations have increased, that much is true - and sometimes there is a trend towards more emotive photography, and less commercial/eye candy/technical preference than there was a few years ago.

In any case, I do wish that people would embrace the low scores, and instead of blaming the voters, would instead recognize that they failed to meet some requirement or desire of the voters - or perhaps that just the standard was so high that it wasn't a good race for them.

Nothing wrong with low scores, or low voters - probably more 'good' and 'helpful' than cheery comments and high scores by every measure. Admittedly though, they are less encouraging.

Nope, no comment from you. ;P

LOL.. I meant on Richard's image of course.

Cory, no comment from you, or anyone, for that matter. Your comments are always welcome, but you've misguessed someone else's image as one of mine.

Wow' so have I then :-)

Elaine

Canon EOS R5

10/04/2013 03:04:44 PM · #18

Of course, there is no way to vote 5.5 on an image. Maybe we need a definition of average. A snapshot of the challenge subject in the middle of a busy background? Putting a little thought into the shot, but missing on the technicals? Good technicals but poor composition? And does a poor shot by a beginner deserve a higher score than a poor shot by someone who has been shooting for 10 years? Constructive criticism is more helpful than giving 6's to most of the entries. A 6 is above average, and needs to contain something more than just "this meets the challenge".

10/04/2013 03:06:16 PM · #19

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Kelli:
I wasn't even complaining about my score. If it's voted low, that's obviously what it deserves. I'm just done trying to compete. It isn't worth how badly it undermines my confidence at this point in my life. I'm not a professional. This is just supposed to be fun for me, and it isn't anymore. I'm hoping a good side challenge pops up that I can play in.

Well, then, forgive me for saying so, but you're running the wrong race.

You know how many marathoners enter with real hopes to finish in the top few? Not many. For most, it's really more about making the finish, not where you finish.

Here, you can enjoy the added bonus of shooting and sharing what you enjoy - shoot a series, tell us a story that unfolds over 20 challenges, whatever. Do something for you, and just use this as a platform to share it, knowing that others are guaranteed to see and think about it(even if only for a second)..

Run the race to stay in shape and to enjoy the variety of reactions, to get that feedback, to share, to provoke, whatever. Stop worrying about something so mundane as winning, there are more important things.

Personally, I'd hate to lose your participation in challenges, but recognize that you're absolutely the type to do as you darn well please. So, do as you please, but please do consider all the alternatives, and the potential awesomeness you'd be walking away from.

Thanks Cory. But, it certainly isn't about winning. I would have quit long ago if it was. If I'm middle of the pack I'm quite happy. I just don't think my style/type of photography works here with the current group of voters. And while the scores really don't mean much to me, it's the fact that nothing lately that I've done seems to resonate with anyone. It's discouraging. Like I said, I'm not going anywhere. I'll be looking for a side challenge soon.

10/04/2013 03:11:20 PM · #20

Originally posted by Elaine:

And does a poor shot by a beginner deserve a higher score than a poor shot by someone who has been shooting for 10 years?

I'm not sure if that was about what I wrote, but I meant the way beginners vote might be different. I didn't say their entries should be voted higher. Plus I don't even know how one would know if a "poor shot" was taken by a beginner or someone who has been shooting for 10 years (since we don't see authors' names by the pictures during voting phase).

Message edited by author 2013-10-04 15:13:40.

10/04/2013 03:12:13 PM · #21

Ok, I was away for a little bit... had to pick my youngest son from school (which was why I was on mobile most of the time). Anyhow...

As for

Kelli, like I said, I wasn't directing it at you, therefore, nothing was "explicitly" negative about your comment about "I think I'm done" or whatever it was. That comment did, however, rekindle my thoughts about OTHERS who make threats about leaving and stay.
But, since you felt the comment was directed at you, then, as the saying goes "if the shoe fits... wear it".

Cory, you're right about the challenges. Some are not meant for everyone to enter, as I have seen myself. I do not proclaim to be some professional, by any means... I enter because I want to learn. I am interested in seeing what others can come up with, and I look forward to the comments, AND votes. Even if I do score a "1" or a "2". If I score a low vote, I would like to know why... and I'm not one to get easily offended, so whatever the voter has to say is completely welcome. They could say "I don't effin like you, that's why I gave you a "1"", and I would be completely ok with that. So what if my images don't appeal to everyone... they aren't meant to. If everyone liked everything, our world would suck worse than it already does. Variety, good AND bad, interesting AND uninteresting, and everything in between is what makes us unique individuals with our own sense of taste.

beatabg, my average vote cast is barely above a 5.3. It was higher before, when I first started here... but has declined as my sense of art has changed. I admit, my average vote cast has fallen by probably .5 points in the last 2 years (or however long I've been here). But, what catches my eye has changed as well. I have learned more about the rule of thirds, and composition, and lighting, and PPing, and so on... so as I have learned more, my vote has lowered some. But I do give credit where credit is due.

hahn23, I don't really worry about what someone's average vote cast is. If they have a high 3/low 4 average, so be it. Maybe very little appeals to them. Just as I don't worry about if someone has a 6+ average vote cast.

Honestly, I look for feedback and constructive criticism in my photos, so I CAN improve my photography... but it seems that so many people are so "thin skinned" that constructive criticism is given out less and less for fear of hurting someone's feelings or starting a war.

10/04/2013 03:44:00 PM · #22

Originally posted by Denielle:

But, since you felt the comment was directed at you, then, as the saying goes "if the shoe fits... wear it".

Actually, the shoe didn't fit. That's the only reason I responded. But, thanks.

10/04/2013 03:50:02 PM · #23

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by Denielle:

But, since you felt the comment was directed at you, then, as the saying goes "if the shoe fits... wear it".

Actually, the shoe didn't fit. That's the only reason I responded. But, thanks.

If it didn't, there would be no need to defend yourself.

It's funny, because you stated that I was directing it at you... which meant YOU took offense to the comment... even though I EXPLICITLY stated that it wasn't directed at you. You must have felt that I was diming you out, otherwise, you wouldn't have responded.