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08/12/2002 12:33:17 AM · #1 |
In my picture :(
But...I did have a few people comment on it who clearly understood the image and how it relates to the challenge.
One person did suggest I shoot in IR...But..I already had shot it with a Tiffen #87 to reduce significantly the amount of light coming into the lens. But, still needing to use the tree to diffuse the incoming light.
I love thinking outside the box ;D |
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08/12/2002 12:35:29 AM · #2 |
Layering is against the rules.... :(
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08/12/2002 12:38:07 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Layering is against the rules.... :(
I was under this impression, too, but I just checked the rules to find out for sure and couldn't find anything that mentioned layers.
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08/12/2002 12:40:54 AM · #4 |
The rules do not state you cannot use layers ;)
Layers is not under the "Filters" section in Photoshop
It is not "Spot editing"
And it is applied to the whole image
So...I guess what I am saying is...I fail to see where this is in the rules
*edit*
ok...After a quick train of thought...I can see how Layers CAN be against the rules...As if you create a layer with only 1/2 of the layer being a single color for example...and then blend it with the whole layer...This would in my opinion be considered spot editing. But, I created a new layer and filled all of it with a solid color then combining it with the whole image. So...Since this was not specifically stated in the rules as the "no filters" part, I plead ignorance for this particular entry.
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/12/2002 12:47:58 AM. |
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08/12/2002 12:42:13 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by mci:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
[i]Layering is against the rules.... :(
I was under this impression, too, but I just checked the rules to find out for sure and couldn't find anything that mentioned layers.
[/i]
I don't think use of layers is specifically against the rules, but the "color burn" to merge in an orange layer may be.
-Terry
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08/12/2002 12:42:27 AM · #6 |
| Hey, I gave you a good score. I had considered two versions with a similar theme, one in color and one in grayscale but I didn't "trust" the voters enough to submit one, so I went with a "composed" shot (not common for me) instead. |
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08/12/2002 04:05:45 AM · #7 |
I think there needs to be some clarification of the rules...
as I see it using layers is a psychephylax has pointed out is legal unless it spot edits.... I used layers for my image.... only dynamic adjustment layers though...
However psychephylax could have achieved the same effect using Hue/Saturation, Channel Mixer adjustment layers or Duotone color mode.
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08/12/2002 06:30:35 AM · #8 |
I think the 'spirit' of the rules is that any edit which affects the WHOLE image is allowed. Any edit which affects only parts of the image is not.
The only exceptions to this are that most filters are specifically disallowed and sharpening filters are specifically allowed.
John |
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08/16/2002 01:14:20 PM · #9 |
Whoa! People are using layers in their photos? I didn't think that something would be allowed just because it isn't specifically in the rules. Maybe someone should reword the rules so that there aren't so many misunderstandings.
The following are the only post-shot Adjustments that may be made to your image in a photo editing program, so long as the modification is applied to the whole image: levels, b&w conversion, hue/saturation, sizing/rotating, cropping, sharpen, and despeckle.
No filters (or non-Photoshop equivalent) may be be applied to your image with the exception of sharpen and despeckle, the two of which are allowed. Absolutely no spot-editing is allowed; the use of any type of selection tool is prohibited.
Are there any other adjustments that are allowed? I think it's that "etc" that might be confusing some people. Most aren't going to break the rules on purpose, but maybe they shouldn't be open to so much misinterpretation. |
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08/16/2002 01:19:04 PM · #10 |
I think this has been mentioned before, but I see this as a photography contest, not a photoshop guru, photo manipulation contest. I think the focus (ha ha) should be on composing and taking a great photograph, not what you can do to it in editing.
Can't buy much with 2 cents, but there it is. :-) |
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08/16/2002 01:41:30 PM · #11 |
I am sorta undecided on the layering issue.
I definitely agree about no spot editing like cloning out things or definitely not merging elements.
I guess as long as we don't allow the removal or addition of compositional elements in the post processing I am not against any other types of manipulation.
Most of the photoshop things outside direct adding/removing or artistic filters are gonna be hard to notice and prove..especially if we continue to get larger and larger entries.
At 300 or more entries, how can you police all the channel mixing, burning, dodging, screening, etc, etc etc....All of which..when done with discretion can never be detected.
We need to be realistic about what we can monitor.
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08/16/2002 02:14:01 PM · #12 |
don't police ALL the entries - just the top 3 - have them submit the original untouched photo to the board - if anything "fishy" is found, allow the photographer their "day in court" and if necessary, revoke their membership
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08/16/2002 02:32:00 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by spiderman:
don't police ALL the entries - just the top 3 - have them submit the original untouched photo to the board - if anything "fishy" is found, allow the photographer their "day in court" and if necessary, revoke their membership
Actually this wont work either.
I can layer, then burn, dodge, screen, lighten freeze dry and package..then flatten and get all that to look just like a simple leveling/curves whatever.
Even if you looked at my original you couldn't surmise what things I may have done...legal or not..to get there.
C'mon people..we can't keep our heads in the sand. We need to be reasonable and just keep out obvious and detrimental manipulation. |
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08/16/2002 04:26:35 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by kathleenm:
I think this has been mentioned before, but I see this as a photography contest, not a photoshop guru, photo manipulation contest. I think the focus (ha ha) should be on composing and taking a great photograph, not what you can do to it in editing.
Can't buy much with 2 cents, but there it is. :-)
The intro/ editoral in this month's 'Lens Work' has an interesting take on this.
People need to separate the tool used, from the result that
is being achieved.
I.e., just because I can do weird, surreal work with photoshop, does
not mean that using every filter and tool in photoshop automatically
makes my entry surreal.
I can do very subtle fixes, changes, touch up, colour adjustments etc
to make a very realistic, non-weird picture and use every trick in
photoshop.
So I'd suggest that we are trying to create realistic photos and that
is part of the challenge, but we don't care too much how people get
to that result.
what isn't of interest is the typical photoshop surrealistic reality
manipulated to death, with new pieces cut in, mirrored, twirrled about
and generally looking nothing like a 'photograph' of something that
ever existed in the real world.
People took weird, surreal photographs well before photoshop was
ever developed. It isn't intrinsicly to blame for a particular
style of use - even though any time we talk about relaxing the
restrictions on photoshop use, this is the argument that is immediatly
put forward - 'people will do weird stuff, we don't want that
nonsense here'
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/16/2002 4:26:53 PM. |
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08/16/2002 05:31:48 PM · #15 |
I didn't get to read the entire thread, but here is my thought:
I agree with Gordon, that people have been manipulating photos long before PS.
I think, that if we each had our own dark room and were in a film photo challenge, that there would be some 'global' editing allowed. Perhaps we shouldn't use the 'fancy' filters, but the general filters should be ok. Does think make sense?
Maybe - there should be a list of 'illegal' filters/effects - or just the 'legal' ones
Anyway - just my 2 cents
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08/16/2002 06:04:09 PM · #16 |
So, what is it?
Having read the (often contradictory) posts in various threads about the rules this week and looking at the rules again, it seems we are allowed to do, provided always at the whole image level:
Add layers at ANY blending mode and ANY opacity
Work with individual channels
Use ANYTHING under the Image Adjustments menu or do the equivalent as adjustment layers
Use transform for straightening, rotating
Cropping and resizing
No software editing filters except for sharpen/despeckle.
No spot editing
No use of selection tools.
As the rules are PRESENTLY defined, any picture adhering to the above list, should not get a DQ (whether the submitter describes the process undertaken under details or not).
Correct assumptions? Yes, no, maybe? I would just LOVE to know :)
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08/16/2002 07:31:10 PM · #17 |
Add layers at ANY blending mode and ANY opacity
Work with individual channels
Use ANYTHING under the Image Adjustments menu or do the equivalent as adjustment layers
you must be joking???? I see layers in that way as totaly AGAINST the rules. If you submit a picture with 2 or more layers and blending, I will DQ it...
case in point: 
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08/16/2002 10:25:32 PM · #18 |
My opinion on using layers....1-It's not spot editing, 2-If 2 photos are used and merged in layers, it's still someone's creativity using digital photography, 3- I personally like to learn in this challenge, therefore, I don't want to hamper people's imagination too much.
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08/16/2002 11:15:04 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by skyline:
My opinion on using layers....1-It's not spot editing, 2-If 2 photos are used and merged in layers, it's still someone's creativity using digital photography, 3- I personally like to learn in this challenge, therefore, I don't want to hamper people's imagination too much.
It is totally original and creative, however, I think the main point of this website is to emphasize the photography part, not digital darkroom techniques...
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08/16/2002 11:36:02 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by cq107:
[i]Add layers at ANY blending mode and ANY opacity
Work with individual channels
Use ANYTHING under the Image Adjustments menu or do the equivalent as adjustment layers
you must be joking???? I see layers in that way as totaly AGAINST the rules. If you submit a picture with 2 or more layers and blending, I will DQ it...
case in point: <br><br>But you don't have to throw away the tools that also happen to allow<br>people to make perfectly 'normal' looking but well executed photographs.<br><br></td></tr></table></td></tr>
<tr class=)
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08/17/2002 02:21:46 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by hokie:
I can layer, then burn, dodge, screen, lighten freeze dry and package..then flatten and get all that to look just like a simple leveling/curves whatever.
Even if you looked at my original you couldn't surmise what things I may have done...legal or not..to get there.
but if you make picture "B" from picture "A" and it earns a ribbon, you have to tell me the steps you took to get from "A" to "B" --- and if i can legally duplicate your steps and recreate picture "B" from "A" - then you're fine --- if there's no way to get from "A" to "B" by the method you've documented, then ???? |
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08/17/2002 03:37:36 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by spiderman:
Originally posted by hokie:
[i]
I can layer, then burn, dodge, screen, lighten freeze dry and package..then flatten and get all that to look just like a simple leveling/curves whatever.
Even if you looked at my original you couldn't surmise what things I may have done...legal or not..to get there.
but if you make picture "B" from picture "A" and it earns a ribbon, you have to tell me the steps you took to get from "A" to "B" --- and if i can legally duplicate your steps and recreate picture "B" from "A" - then you're fine --- if there's no way to get from "A" to "B" by the method you've documented, then ????[/i]
i suppose we're still pondering the "legally" aspect of this ?? |
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<br><br>But you don't have to throw away the tools that also happen to allow<br>people to make perfectly 'normal' looking but well executed photographs.<br><br></td></tr></table></td></tr>
<tr class=)