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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Is she allowed to do this?!?!
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 01/14/2005 03:01:25 PM · #26
well, bear, you make sense here, but i think imagineer's approach would be more fun

;-)
 01/14/2005 03:02:11 PM · #27
I hate the way some people yell Lawyer whenever something is a little out of place.

You must remember what she was like, was she in a new business when you had the sitting or has it been around for years?

I would think that making an appointment to see her about the use of those photo's would be wise (make sure she is aware of the reason for the meeting), take someone with you and add any information into your diary including the day you found it in the Yellow pages and all these comments.

You may find that she uses a standard form that you signed at the counter. For me I think a reasonable restitution would be prints of that sitting and another sitting at age 2 with free prints!
 01/14/2005 03:02:35 PM · #28
I'm pretty sure it's been well established that she was in the wrong. I do believe the new controversay is whether or not it was done knowingly and what should the course of action be.

I like Imagineer's suggestion, I'm googling "how to make a bomb at home" as we speak.

:-)
 01/14/2005 03:06:48 PM · #29
would everyone feel this severe toward an image posted on the photographers website? Thats it..im gonna stop taking photos..its just not safe....
 01/14/2005 03:07:25 PM · #30
To anyone who thinks this thread is predatory;

There are a lot of DPCers who have expressed a desire to "break into" commercial photography. I see this thread as a cautionary tale for our fellow pros and wannabe pros. Being a pro means behaving professionally, following the rules, dotting the i's and crossing the t's, and so forth.

Robt.

01/14/2005 03:09:14 PM · #31
that's cool and all bear_music but no actual real facts have been given. If I took everything here at face value, I'd be doing what you guys are all warning against :-)
 01/14/2005 03:09:23 PM · #32
GriGri,

it's really very simple; if you have a recognizable image of another person, especially one who paid you to make the image, ask their permission before using it. 90% of the time they'll be flattered and agree with a smile. People just don't like being surprised, and I don't blame them.

Robt.

01/14/2005 03:10:12 PM · #33
Originally posted by grigrigirl:
would everyone feel this severe toward an image posted on the photographers website?


yea I'd say no one would really care too much..even though more people use the web now then the yellow pages.

01/14/2005 03:13:35 PM · #34
Berry,

I DID say, very specifically, "if" this is the scenario, then...

I quite agree, we need to know real facts, in the specific instance, but there is nothing wrong with discussing it as a hypothetical. If she did "x", she's wrong. Plain and simple.

It's a very important issue for PHOTOGRAPHERS is why I'm hammering on it. Too often people don't think stuff through, and they get hurt by it.

Robt.

01/14/2005 03:16:35 PM · #35
its pretty simple to approach a photographer about an image on a website and have them remove it. I wonder if people would choose to get out the sue happy big guns as opposed to asking the photographer to remove the image.
 01/14/2005 03:20:39 PM · #36
That's true, grigri :-)

But doesn't this mean use of the web encourages sloppy business habits? I've seen it often; image or poem, or whatever stays up 'til someone says "hey! you can't do that!" then down it comes. In many ways thats' the nature of the web, but a professional photographer promoting his or her studio should hold higher standards IMO.

Robt.

01/14/2005 03:30:48 PM · #37
my wedding contracts state my right to use images on my website. Of course, if someone did not want me to..i wouldnt. But...what happens if I take a photo at a wedding of the flower girl...and put her image up on my website. Can the parents of the flower girl sue me even though i have rights to post the images?
 01/14/2005 03:32:06 PM · #38
Originally posted by Imagineer:
Clearly, she's evil. This is a ploy to exploit and destroy your daughter's image and dismantle your family. I strongly recommend a fire bombing of the photo studio as a starting point and then, if an apology and substantial financial compensation is unforthcoming, move on to her home and relatives' properties. Failing a satisfactory outcome at this stage, then try a physical 'approach' as she's leaving for the evening (but you'd better be a bit useful with the dukes).

I may be wrong, but I think that firebombing her studio would be a bit extreme at this point. Maybe she̢۪s a reasonable woman and would respond favorably to a simple Tonya Harding type of negotiation.


01/14/2005 03:34:32 PM · #39
Originally posted by micknewton:
Originally posted by Imagineer:
Clearly, she's evil. This is a ploy to exploit and destroy your daughter's image and dismantle your family. I strongly recommend a fire bombing of the photo studio as a starting point and then, if an apology and substantial financial compensation is unforthcoming, move on to her home and relatives' properties. Failing a satisfactory outcome at this stage, then try a physical 'approach' as she's leaving for the evening (but you'd better be a bit useful with the dukes).

I may be wrong, but I think that firebombing her studio would be a bit extreme at this point. Maybe she̢۪s a reasonable woman and would respond favorably to a simple Tonya Harding type of negotiation.

you might be sounding a voice of reason here, but obviously imagineer is onto something...you really need to nip these things in the bud, because they might not understand a simple whack in the leg...
 01/14/2005 03:36:38 PM · #40
Typically a lawsuit on website content only can succeed if the plaintiff can show attempts to have the offending material removed that have not been successful. Since it is in your contract that you may post the images to your website, you're basically bulletproof. If they ask, you'll remove 'em. If they don't ask, your contract allows it. Nothing to sue about unless you refuse to remove an image, IMO.

Assuming, of course, that the image is neither prurient nore defamatory... LOL

Robt.


Message edited by author 2005-01-14 15:37:12.
 01/14/2005 03:41:54 PM · #41
Originally posted by bear_music:
Typically a lawsuit on website content only can succeed if the plaintiff can show attempts to have the offending
Assuming, of course, that the image is neither prurient nore defamatory... LOL

Robt.


I resemble that remark! UFF..we're talking about a CHILD here! I have morals...I do...
 01/14/2005 03:42:45 PM · #42
Originally posted by bear_music:
Berry,

I DID say, very specifically, "if" this is the scenario, then...


I meant legal facts, as in legal mumbo-jumbo like acts and statues. Not facts about the photography situation.

P.S. Just to throw in a monkey wrench with the talk about contracts (which I too use)..coming from my parents who spend more time in court than most judges: contracts are worthless. They tell me that a verbal agreement is actually more powerful. Probably due to the argument that people don't tend to read or understand written contracts. My mom is also a long time member of the Labour Relations Board.

Message edited by author 2005-01-14 15:45:41.
 01/14/2005 03:43:56 PM · #43
WOW! I really struck a nerve here! Here is a little more info...

Thi photographer worked with her brother for YEARS and YEARS in well respected and know studio. 3 years ago, she went out on her, but I know that she has been in the business for a very long time- she is in her mid to late 40s.

I paid a sitting fee and purchased a disk with "proof" labeled photos on it- I didn't sign a purchase agreement or a contract of any kind. I love the photos that she takes- but I worry that her problem with ethical issues will force me to find another photographer.

I am meeting with her at 3:30 today- I will fill you in on Monday. I think I may play dumb- "Oh, do you notify parents before using their pictures in your advertising?!?!" I am not one to blow up and confront... I should scan and upload the ad for you all to see! : ) Then I would be violating copyright!
01/14/2005 07:04:31 PM · #44
Having rethought my previous reply I now suggest a new tactic. Demand she learn how to use Photoshop using nothing but built in help files. I think this is warranted.
 01/14/2005 08:02:42 PM · #45
wow, you havn't even met this person and have already left her throat on the floor. I work at a studio that uses awesome photos of shoots we do, we also have a standard disclaimer which states we can and will use any of the photos in part or in whole of your photo session. Though I've never had a problem with anyone thinking I some how owe them something, I'd honor wishes and take it down even though I (not saying this particular photographer does) have the legal right...

As for the originator of this post, I'd take another look at the document, if any, that you signed. I doubt this woman is stupid enough to put herself in a barrel and jump in the river headed for the falls.

If anything I would take this as a tear sheet for what could be a profitable career for your daughter. Some people fight long and hard to be 'published models' ;)

Sorry for the inconvienience your experience caused you. Don't think all portraitists (is she actually was one) are all crooks (if indeed she is one)

Joe
 01/14/2005 08:47:38 PM · #46
Originally posted by bear_music:
To anyone who thinks this thread is predatory;

There are a lot of DPCers who have expressed a desire to "break into" commercial photography. I see this thread as a cautionary tale for our fellow pros and wannabe pros. Being a pro means behaving professionally, following the rules, dotting the i's and crossing the t's, and so forth.

Robt.


On that note, I consider myself warned. Though I do verbally tell my clients that their session constitutes permission for me to use the images taken in my portfolio (online and off) and for advertising, I have as of yet not asked anyone to sign any paperwork saying as much. Does anyone have a model release that they'd be willing to send me to tweak for my own use? If so, PM me and I'll send you my email address.

Thanks!
 01/14/2005 09:00:13 PM · #47
Originally posted by just-married:

On that note, I consider myself warned. Though I do verbally tell my clients that their session constitutes permission for me to use the images taken in my portfolio (online and off) and for advertising, I have as of yet not asked anyone to sign any paperwork saying as much. Does anyone have a model release that they'd be willing to send me to tweak for my own use? If so, PM me and I'll send you my email address.

Thanks!


Well a verbal agreement is just as binding as one in writing - (unless its in respect of certain subject matter - i.e the sale of land), the problem is of course proving the existence of said agreement. I doubt most of us carry a tape recorder in our camera bags :P.
 01/14/2005 10:16:53 PM · #48
Originally posted by samtrundle:
Originally posted by just-married:

On that note, I consider myself warned. Though I do verbally tell my clients that their session constitutes permission for me to use the images taken in my portfolio (online and off) and for advertising, I have as of yet not asked anyone to sign any paperwork saying as much. Does anyone have a model release that they'd be willing to send me to tweak for my own use? If so, PM me and I'll send you my email address.

Thanks!


Well a verbal agreement is just as binding as one in writing - (unless its in respect of certain subject matter - i.e the sale of land), the problem is of course proving the existence of said agreement. I doubt most of us carry a tape recorder in our camera bags :P.

But many of us have cameras which will take a sound movie clip and/or attach a voice annotation to a still frame. But having them sign a standard form is better. Search the forums ... there are some recently-posted links to places with downloadable releases.
 01/14/2005 10:26:51 PM · #49
Hehehe - that's genius - attach the verbal release agreement as a narration!... wish I had thought of that myself :).
 01/14/2005 11:28:43 PM · #50
The other issue is if it was taken on school property, the teachers/school (at least in Canada) do have some legal rights regarding the children on school property.
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