Triangle Post-Mortem - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

05/18/2005 02:16:12 PM · #1

Ok, my goal here is not to bitch about my score or how much higher my picture should have finished. People voted and that's that. I'm just curious to know how come it did much poorly than I expected. I got 3 comments. One who like it, one who liked it but says it took him a while to see the triangle(s) and one who did not see the triangle(s) at all.
So, my question is... Can you see the triangles? Or are the low scores a result of "Not meeting the challenge"?

Beetle

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

05/18/2005 02:55:39 PM · #2

Since I didn't vote on this, I'll give you my 2cents worth here (you DID ask for it):

You photographed a very busy scene with many different elements.
If I search long enough, I'm bound to see a triangle somewhere, and I have. In a challenge called "Triangle", I would not expect having to actively search for it, it should be easily visible.

Judging from your title, in your opinion the triangle is a result of perspective - convergence. Well, I believe a triangle is meant to have THREE points, in this one I can only see two (the parts closest to the camera), the far end does not come to any one point. So calling this a triangle (if that is what you did mean) is pushing it. A lot.

Triangles aside, I find the photo interesting enough to look at.

05/18/2005 03:01:33 PM · #3

i was wondering if anyone knew what i used for my triangles????

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

05/18/2005 03:02:31 PM · #4

Actually, there are 2 triangles even more obvious... The whole picture is split in two forming 2 huge right angle triangles... and there are 3 points... I think all the lines in picture leads your eye towards the center and you miss "The Whole Picture". That's what I tought was cool about the shot (and why I have submitted it). It's easier to see it on the thumbnail. You have one in the left bottom half and another in the right upper half.

justine

Canon EOS-50D

05/18/2005 03:02:37 PM · #5

Sure makeup sponges. :)
I think it was a good idea and fit the challenge.

05/18/2005 03:02:58 PM · #6

Originally posted by buzzmom:

i was wondering if anyone knew what i used for my triangles????

Apples?

nidan

05/18/2005 03:05:22 PM · #7

GM that is awesome, I was just checking stuff out and saw what you said about the thumbnail. Thats great!

05/18/2005 03:08:13 PM · #8

Like I said... I'm not bitching at all. I know there were a lot of pictures to vote on and the time to "study" each one is limited.

nidan

05/18/2005 03:09:49 PM · #9

I'm willing to bet a lot of people missed that though. like I said, cool pic

Message edited by author 2005-05-18 15:10:09.

05/18/2005 03:10:21 PM · #10

Originally posted by nidan:

I'm willing to bet a lot of people missed that though

The comments I got confirm that.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

05/18/2005 03:11:06 PM · #11

Originally posted by grandmarginal:

Originally posted by buzzmom:

i was wondering if anyone knew what i used for my triangles????

Apples?

no but i did glue them together and paint them red for the apple challenge....not :)

KaDi

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

05/18/2005 03:12:14 PM · #12

Originally posted by buzzmom:

i was wondering if anyone knew what i used for my triangles????

Cosmetic sponges?

05/18/2005 03:15:35 PM · #13

wow that didnt take long....wtg KaDi

Jinjit

05/18/2005 03:23:18 PM · #14

Ehhh I think Justine said it first... ;-)

Originally posted by justine:

Sure makeup sponges. :)
I think it was a good idea and fit the challenge.

Zed Pobre

05/18/2005 03:26:06 PM · #15

I didn't enter or vote in this challenge, but it would have scored a 7 from me for a very nice, original concept (I saw two triangles almost immedately, but I'm used to checking outlines. Splitting the second in two more took me a bit longer, but gave you three threes, which was perfect):

Base: 5
Technical (-2 to +1): +0
Interest (-1 to +2): +2
Emotion (+0 to +2): +0
Bias (-1 to +1): +0

I've been doing lots (and lots and lots) of digging into previous challenges, though, trying to work out the mind of DPC voters, and I think I can tell you exactly why it bombed:

1) Don't ever enter images that force the average viewer to guess or think about what is going on. Aim for an attention span of about 5 seconds. If it doesn't generate understanding within that time, expect a low score as people stop looking. I think this is what killed what is one of my best shots, submitted for Minimalism -- almost nobody got it (though I got a 'favorite' from one of the ones that did, which was very gratifying, given the low score).

2) Lack of eye candy. Shots that don't make people stop and go "wow, that's pretty" sink, unless you get an emotional reaction. I don't really score up for that (unless it's so spectacular that I have to stop and figure out how the heck it was done), but just about everyone else seems to. This may have real-world application; I suspect this is a general public reaction as well as a DPC reaction, as 'realistic' goes completely out of the window in favor of digital art. I may start hitting the advanced editing challenges to force me to learn Photoshop inside out.

3) Lack of positive emotional reaction. The composition strikes me as downright brilliant, but you'll note that the difference between a 7 and a 9 even for me was something that grabbed me and made me feel something. Voters seem to want either #2 or #3, but not necessarily both. From my current scores, I think I made a bad miscalculation on this in the last challenge -- I think I'm getting an emotional reaction, but voters are actually voting me down for it, because it's not a *positive* emotional reaction. Hard to tell with practically no comments, however. Safe bets are probably 'funny' (particularly combined with cute), 'suspense', 'peace', and 'awe'. Fear works only if it's the fake fear of a scary costume or a roller coaster ride; I suspect reality will bomb, though I haven't seen enough examples to say yet. Sex sells to the large public well enough to boost a mediocre shot up a ways, but will draw the occasional negative comment and will never hit a top score unless it's a perfect fit for what's going on in the rest of the scene or a perfect match for the challenge. Avoid 'depressing' (unless it's subtle enough that most people don't get it and trigger only on 'awe'), 'gross' (even paired with 'funny' or 'shocking'), or 'painful'.

If some of the experienced ribbon-winners would care to comment on this analysis, I'd appreciate the input.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

05/18/2005 03:26:12 PM · #16

Originally posted by Jinjit:

Ehhh I think Justine said it first... ;-)

Originally posted by justine:
Sure makeup sponges. :)
I think it was a good idea and fit the challenge.

ooops must put on my reading glasses missed justines response....a thousand pardons....:)

justine

Canon EOS-50D

05/18/2005 03:26:38 PM · #17

BuzzMOM! do I win anything?
:)

Zed Pobre

05/18/2005 03:27:40 PM · #18

Originally posted by KaDi:

Originally posted by buzzmom:

i was wondering if anyone knew what i used for my triangles????

Cosmetic sponges?

Wow, they look almost exactly like cut daikon radish, all the way down to the texture. I'll have to remember to stay out of makeup stores when I'm hungry.

ParadigmShift

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

05/18/2005 03:30:20 PM · #19

grandmarginal - I have to admit I gave you a pretty low score, but it wasn't for a lack of meeting the challenge or not being able to see the triangle. It was mostly due to two things:
1.) It just seemed (to me) like a pretty boring, but busy, shot. It reminded me of a million pictures I have taken as a tourist when just trying to capture a place to show others that "I have been there", without putting real thought into composition or meaning.
2.) I felt the colors were slightly off, especially the sky (seems like the clouds have a slight yellow tint).

So overall, I just didn't think it was that great a shot. Mind you, I think of myself as a lousy photographer, so please don't take this as me critizing your ability, but rather an attempt at honestly explaing why I gave you the score I did. Hope it helps...

Artifacts

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

05/18/2005 03:32:20 PM · #20

Originally posted by grandmarginal:

I scored your image a 7 because it is a very high quality image. I did not comment on it during the challenge. I saw the building and perspective triangles immediately and that was enough to convince me it met the challenge. But then, I would have voted it higher because it is a great image anyway.

It scored low because people did not see your trinagles and they view that as important for scoring. End of discussion.

KaDi

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

05/18/2005 03:35:21 PM · #21

Originally posted by buzzmom:

Originally posted by Jinjit:
Ehhh I think Justine said it first... ;-)

Originally posted by justine:
Sure makeup sponges. :)
I think it was a good idea and fit the challenge.

ooops must put on my reading glasses missed justines response....a thousand pardons....:)

Apparently, I don't read very well either or I wouldn't have needed to make my guess....

On the original topic, I see several compositional triangles in the photo:

05/18/2005 03:38:48 PM · #22

Yes, the building in the top left corner, the water on the right bottom corner...

Zed Pobre

05/18/2005 03:39:05 PM · #23

Originally posted by KaDi:

On the original topic, I see several compositional triangles in the photo:

Huh. Four. I completely missed the one on the right. Thanks.

Followup edit: I think it's because it breaks up the upper right triangle into a non-triangle and a triangle, and even now that I know where it is, my mind doesn't really want to acknowledge it, particularly since it doesn't quite converge at the center. Good compositional exercise trying to keep it in mind, though.

Message edited by author 2005-05-18 15:41:35.

05/18/2005 03:44:02 PM · #24

i apologize for sticking my triangle in you thread GM...i didnt realize....I saw`all those tri's that were pointed out and liked it...