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05/06/2003 10:01:17 AM · #26 |
Each challenge is all about interpretation, just read the current thread on "Primary Colors". I thought your picture was a technically perfect picture but a little off for meeting the challenge. I don't give many real high scores and very few low ones. Yours deserved a 7 from me based on your skill, and obvious knowledge of the camera. Did any of the scores you recieved change your opinion of the picture? Probably not! I don't think your disappointment is going to change the opinions of the voters either.
Pick up your camers go out there and take the best damn picture of what yout think is a primary color and be ready for another round at DPC!
Good luck and have FUN. |
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05/06/2003 10:16:30 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by jochen:
Matt,
I'm not 100% sure that "fauna" implies "animals in their natural habitat". To me it just implies "animals". But even if you are right:
-My cat is a domesticated animal, so it IS photographed in it's natural habitat.
-A lot of pics with a higher score are animals photographed in the zoo (sometimes quite obvious).
I'm just trying to say that I don't think the fact that my subject is a cat is responsible for the strange score (high commenters score vs. low other scores)...
J. |
I think if they wanted us to take a picture of pets don't you think they would have called the challenge "animals"? Take a picture of an animal. But since they didn't I assumed that they wanted us to get off our bottoms and be more creative. Get out and find a cool animal not an animal on your couch. That was my understanding.
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05/06/2003 10:19:32 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by autool:
Each challenge is all about interpretation, just read the current thread on "Primary Colors". I thought your picture was a technically perfect picture but a little off for meeting the challenge. I don't give many real high scores and very few low ones. Yours deserved a 7 from me based on your skill, and obvious knowledge of the camera. Did any of the scores you recieved change your opinion of the picture? Probably not! I don't think your disappointment is going to change the opinions of the voters either.
Pick up your camers go out there and take the best damn picture of what yout think is a primary color and be ready for another round at DPC!
Good luck and have FUN. |
Hey autool,
I will continue having fun with my camera, don't worry! :-)
A lot of people interpret this thread the way you do: they think I'm not happy with my score or something. Quite frankly: I couldn't care less about the score. I'm just trying to get some good comments. Comments that show that my picture "touches" some of the people out there. From those comment, I hope to learn and improve my skills.
So this thread is not really about score. I started it for a clarification of my scores, that's true. But that was merely because the difference between the scores of commenters and non-commenters was quite huge ...unlike with other pics that ended up around the same average score as mine.
But one of the first replies I got said: "I give a 1 to pets, 3 to zoo animals" ...even thoug the challenge was "fauna" which my dictionnary describes as "animal life".
Only at that point I outed a complaint: why are these kinds of people tolerated here? They mess up the challenge results, don't they? |
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05/06/2003 10:20:49 AM · #29 |
| I think most people's first thought when they go to vote on a photo is "Does it meet the challenge" this, of course, can be somewhat subjective, but I guess when it all comes down to it, meeting the challenge is more important (initially) than technical merit. As other voters have said, you can have a technically perfect photo and still get a 1 (not my philosophy though). The challenge is what this whole site is based on. The trick is to anticipate how the masses will interpret the challenge. In the case of fauna, the masses felt it was "wild". The forums can be very helpful to get an idea how people will vote. |
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05/06/2003 10:26:35 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by Sonifo:
I think if they wanted us to take a picture of pets don't you think they would have called the challenge "animals"? Take a picture of an animal. But since they didn't I assumed that they wanted us to get off our bottoms and be more creative. Get out and find a cool animal not an animal on your couch. That was my understanding. |
Well... shouldn't you "align" your "understanding" with what the challenge is really about BEFORE starting to give low scores to pictures of which you think they are not appropriate for this challenge?
As far as I know "don't go for zoo- or pet-shots, but get of your butt and be more creative" is mentionned nowhere in the challenge rules. As far as I know, it just said (and still says, see here): "noun. Animals collectively, esp. of a particular period, region, or environment"
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05/06/2003 10:37:03 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
Myself....I gave it a 1. Why? Every pet picture in that challenge got a one. Every zoo picture got a 3.
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It is live in the country or have the means to get there, and be able to have access to wild animals in their natural habitat. I guess that gives you the right to penalize everyone who does not have that privilege and is making the best of the opportunities they have available.
-Terry |
Nicely said Terry! I live in the city, I don't have a car, I admit my fauna wasn't a great photo, and I wasn't expecting to do well with it, I probably would have done better with a photo of one of my cats or the dog than I did with circus elephants. |
So what you two are saying is that we are not aloud to vote the way we want? We have to vote your way? You felt the challenge meant pets right? Some of us felt we should get off our couches and get out there and find an animal. If you do not have a car then walk. Or face the voters head on and get a low score.
We all have our own way of voting, if it doesn't meet the challenge then we (as the voters) will score low. Let it be. Please.
Sonja
Remember this is a challenge!!! Challenge yourselves!! Don't look at your photo and say it is perfect, because there is always something you can do to make it better.
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05/06/2003 10:38:37 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by jochen:
But one of the first replies I got said: "I give a 1 to pets, 3 to zoo animals" ...even thoug the challenge was "fauna" which my dictionnary describes as "animal life".
Only at that point I outed a complaint: why are these kinds of people tolerated here? They mess up the challenge results, don't they? |
YES! And as I have found out no one is willing to do anything about it even when you can prove that there is a group of people voting unfairly! |
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05/06/2003 10:39:57 AM · #33 |
regardless of the definition, the voters didn't agree with your interpretation. that's all it means. that is the only reason that your picturedidn't do better. it is a good picture, but it wasn't on topic according to the voters. if this were a pet challenge, the photo would have score over 6 i would think. when it comes to a challenge, it's not what you think is going to win, it's what you think voters will like and vote highly on. in this challenge, pets weren't included in that mindset.
Message edited by author 2003-05-06 10:43:27. |
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05/06/2003 10:41:07 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by jochen:
Originally posted by Sonifo:
I think if they wanted us to take a picture of pets don't you think they would have called the challenge "animals"? Take a picture of an animal. But since they didn't I assumed that they wanted us to get off our bottoms and be more creative. Get out and find a cool animal not an animal on your couch. That was my understanding. |
Well... shouldn't you "align" your "understanding" with what the challenge is really about BEFORE starting to give low scores to pictures of which you think they are not appropriate for this challenge?
As far as I know "don't go for zoo- or pet-shots, but get of your butt and be more creative" is mentionned nowhere in the challenge rules. As far as I know, it just said (and still says, see here): "noun. Animals collectively, esp. of a particular period, region, or environment" |
You will not get better if you live in your little box and critisize people. The majority of the voters voted low for pets. You have all the time in the world to take a picture of your cat.
You want to get better?? You want high scores? Then you will have to challenge yourself. Really, I have learned by experience!
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05/06/2003 10:45:12 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by jochen:
why are these kinds of people tolerated here? They mess up the challenge results, don't they? |
yes, if by messing up challenge results you mean voting low on pictures which do not meet the challenge in their opinion... pets-1, farm animals-2, zoo pictures-3, all for the reasons stated above (but not homer, homer's was a great picture!)...i would've loved to submit my three dogs picture some day... all together, or separately... but i will wait for the "pets" challenge... and, yes, i am prepared for "close minded-shame on you-this kinda voting should be stopped" remarks... but you only will be repeating yourselves...
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05/06/2003 10:46:38 AM · #36 |
I think this thread was doomed from the git-go because of the way you attacked a few other photos specifically. (Thank goodness you didn't mention "stupid gulls just looking at the water" or anything!)
Perhaps if just the 2nd half of your initial post had been put up, things would have gone smoother. |
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05/06/2003 10:50:13 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by jochen:
A lot of participants have an unfounded biased look on these challenges. |
Here's the thing with bias: everyone has it. We don't vote in a vacuum. We are people. When people are left to determine their own voting criteria, as we are in DP, the votes are going to be biased. Just like in the rest of the world! People here are forever saying that they are hear to learn and then turning around in the next breath and claiming that people are judging their picture incorrectly (and I'm not just directing this at you, jochen) but guess what? If you were to hang your photo on your wall or in a gallery or sell it, you don't get to come with it and explain why it should be a satisfactory photo or why the viewer should like it. So if someone wants to vote all pet shots as a one, that's their perogative. And it doesn't mess up the voting because a) there are 200+ votes and a single one isn't going to sway your tally that much and b) because it's not any different than someone giving your shot a ten because they "liked" it. No one ever has to prove why they thought a shot deserved a ten around here.
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05/06/2003 10:50:57 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by welcher:
I think this thread was doomed from the git-go because of the way you attacked a few other photos specifically. (Thank goodness you didn't mention "stupid gulls just looking at the water" or anything!)
Perhaps if just the 2nd half of your initial post had been put up, things would have gone smoother. |
Actually I have to agree with some of the photos mentioned at the beginning and add one too it the dead mouse or was it a rat! That was plan disgusting! |
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05/06/2003 10:54:15 AM · #39 |
| Sorry for that outburst but that photo just turned my stomach so badly. |
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05/06/2003 10:55:41 AM · #40 |
My fauna picture did pretty good and I was surprised because it is a picture of a farm animal. I drove 10 miles out of town. I also had to hike to get to him and while I was getting pictures of the horse I got a tick on me. I had to brave the wild! hehehee.... I think I did pretty good and someone even thought it was photoshopped and recommended it for disqualification. hahahaha...that was a good one. It took 21 place.
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05/06/2003 11:21:23 AM · #41 |
For what it's worth, here is a Critique Club comment I just left on a 'cat' photo...
**********
Greetings from the Critique Club :)
Hi xxxxxxxxxx...
This is a nice pet photo for sure. I like the composition you chose and the lighting seems to work fine for me, even though some of your comments say otherwise... This would be a good image for you to print and frame for your personal collection :)
When you present a pet photo on DPChallenge, there must be something incredibly unique about it for it to score well. I personally believe that most DPC people are bored with photos of domestic house pets. The score you received and the lack of user feedback in the comments reinforces my belief. The image didn't inspire comments from the viewers simply because it is a house pet photo and there is no single significantly strong element about the photo.
Another reason I personally believe that household pet photos don't score well is the perceived lack of effort to get the photo. Most don't consider it creative, especially in a 'fauna' challenge. Even though this photo meets the challenge, I think more was expected. Photos of children receive the same level of mediocre intreste on this site for the same reasons.
John Setzler
**********
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05/06/2003 11:27:34 AM · #42 |
John, you sure have a way with words!! Great critique!
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05/06/2003 11:30:21 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by Sonifo:
John, you sure have a way with words!! Great critique! |
Yeah, yeah,,,,,,,but he can't spell interest! lol
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05/06/2003 11:32:51 AM · #44 |
IMHO I think a lot of the blame should be laid at the challenge description which was far too broad. It really should have stated wildlife fauna.
When I originally saw some of the pictures like fowls etc I could not believe people had submited them as fauna. I then check the definition of fauna and was extremely starteled to see the exact range it covers (domestic pets by definition are correct to be included as fauna). This definitely has opened my eyes and I now do check the dictionary definition of the challenge, and I do believe more people should do the same, so they can get a better understanding of the subject.
Would also suggest that people read the challenge threads, where you would have been able to see that people had already considered that even though pets were fauna, they would not be getting a high score as they did not consder a pet's home to be its natural environment (IMO totally incorrect - domestic pets have been around long enough for a home to be considered their natural environment). |
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05/06/2003 11:37:37 AM · #45 |
Some voters simply like to create their own vision of what the challenge means to them and vote accordingly... some voters like to allow broad interpretations of each challenge...
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05/06/2003 11:40:34 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Some voters simply like to create their own vision of what the challenge means to them and vote accordingly... some voters like to allow broad interpretations of each challenge... |
I agree, you should make this your signature...lol
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05/06/2003 11:41:18 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by Sonifo:
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
Myself....I gave it a 1. Why? Every pet picture in that challenge got a one. Every zoo picture got a 3.
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It is live in the country or have the means to get there, and be able to have access to wild animals in their natural habitat. I guess that gives you the right to penalize everyone who does not have that privilege and is making the best of the opportunities they have available.
-Terry |
Nicely said Terry! I live in the city, I don't have a car, I admit my fauna wasn't a great photo, and I wasn't expecting to do well with it, I probably would have done better with a photo of one of my cats or the dog than I did with circus elephants. |
So what you two are saying is that we are not aloud to vote the way we want? We have to vote your way? You felt the challenge meant pets right? Some of us felt we should get off our couches and get out there and find an animal. If you do not have a car then walk. Or face the voters head on and get a low score.
We all have our own way of voting, if it doesn't meet the challenge then we (as the voters) will score low. Let it be. Please.
Sonja
Remember this is a challenge!!! Challenge yourselves!! Don't look at your photo and say it is perfect, because there is always something you can do to make it better. |
Some of us did. I walked to the aquarium... and apparently got an automatic 3 for my effort.
-Terry
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05/06/2003 11:45:22 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by jaam:
IMHO I think a lot of the blame should be laid at the challenge description which was far too broad. It really should have stated wildlife fauna. |
Or maybe it didn't state wildlife fauna because they didn't want to restrict us that much?
-Terry
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05/06/2003 11:48:39 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by jochen:
-The concept "fauna" is not clear to everyone. The dictionary describes fauna as "animal life". That's it. Nothing more. |
Well, that's not true. Most dictionaries describe the word in terms of a collective of animals in a region, period, or environment. However, that is neither here nor there. The photo just wasn't that great. I don't think it would stand out among much of the cat photography I have seen. Taking a closer look at the image in question there is quite a bit of CA around the white hairs of the mouth, whiskers, and lower tail. The image, overall, is not sharp. The pose is a little uninteresting, perhaps bordering on the abstract. Certainly no story told nor emotion felt. The subject (pet photos) has limited appeal to be sure. I would say the image is a 5 at best even though on dpreview's Olytalk this might be a 9. Which by the way wreaks more of back slapping and clubbing than photoSIG did in the old version. |
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05/06/2003 11:58:14 AM · #50 |
| Horrors!!! That big red snake is a PET??? Don't invite ME to dinner. I may have given him a seven but I won't pull a CC photo until I'm sure he's gone from the pile! |
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