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07/06/2005 10:14:05 AM · #51 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
Originally posted by khdoss:
Comments? |
then what motivation do i have to vote during the first 3 days? not me personally, but that's the argument you're going to get. |
I always vote for all the first night or next morning, then I generally go back and rethink the low scores and rarely change my mind. Its the high scorers that get bumped. And I always try to comment on a few low scoring ones so they know why I voted low. Now this is just me.
But enough vote to make the sort fair. At least this way the pressure is off the SCs back and the community is still the judge. Some people will find fault in anything you do or say, it just human nature.
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07/06/2005 10:15:24 AM · #52 |
Originally posted by fotolady:
Originally posted by gi_joe05:
I love this idea, it would get rid of all of the soccer mom pictures that I just give ones to anyway |
WHat do you mean by soccer mom pictures? |
Moms playing soccer? No, just kidding. ;-)
I guess he means pics by moms of their children playing ..
I think the issue is encapsulated by the first poster in this thread.
Message edited by author 2005-07-06 10:19:26.
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07/06/2005 10:17:49 AM · #53 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
then what motivation do i have to vote during the first 3 days? not me personally, but that's the argument you're going to get. |
That was my first thought: 'Ho ho, I won't wade through the pics - I'll just wait for the cull'.
Looking at it now.. Voting early gives you chance to make a bigger influence, because your vote could get a shot culled. That's not necessarily a good thing because it could lead to witch hunting bad photos and voting harshly.
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07/06/2005 10:20:03 AM · #54 |
Originally posted by nshapiro:
I am sure many people don't see the harm in the word, "whining", but I see it as derogatory, and thus it's bad netiquette. It means:
"habitually complaining; "a whining child"
I don't think any of the posters, and particularly the original poster, Mandy, are habitual complainers (nor children ;)
(Actually Websters online has a different definition, which has to do mostly with the "pitch/sound" of the complaint, but that's equally unapplicable here.)
I think it was a legitimate question, and the discussion is also valid. If people want to discuss this, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to without name calling. If you don't agree with a thread, or want to participate in a discussion--no matter how many times it's been said before--simply use the ignore feature to ignore the thread. |
Perhaps the reason we can not find a solution is because there really isn't a problem to be solved.
When I used the word I intended it to be derogatory. Not at anyone in particular but to the repeated threads, and positions taken, in response to large challenges. Just because a small percentage of users are uncomfortable because they don't have the time to vote on all entries is not reason to change the site. The future may be that very few of us vote on all entries. The site is growing. Large challenges are a fact of life. Adjust to the changing environment of dpc.
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07/06/2005 10:20:43 AM · #55 |
| I really like the idea of a "doesn't meet the challenge button"!!! If your entry gets a certain (would have to be large) number of clicks, then you will be DQ'ed. I love that idea. |
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07/06/2005 10:22:41 AM · #56 |
I don't know that coolhar was right or wrong about the whining. It's not my call to make.
However, I do think he was right about this:
Originally posted by coolhar:
The people who complain might be spending their time in a more useful manner if they would just use it to vote instead. |
I've noticed that there is always time to post in the forums, yet seldom is there time to vote and comment.
Frankly, it comes down to a matter of choice: Do I vote/comment, or do I carry on conversations with my friends?
It's a matter of priorities. Either you make voting and commenting a priority, or you don't, and no amount of complaining/whining or suggesting site fixes/upgrades is going to change that.
Sara
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07/06/2005 10:26:12 AM · #57 |
Originally posted by macrothing:
Additionally, I really would like to see a 'doesn't meet the challenge' button. |
You have not noticed the various debates on how every challenge can be interpreted in many ways? Even the circle example you give is discussed here!
I noticed when looking through arnit's back catalogue this stunning shot, which scored in the 2nd percentile of the vote, because it "did not meet the challenge" very obviously (to the voters) though Arnit explains the connection in his description. It is still a favourite for 14 photographers. Would you eliminate that?
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07/06/2005 10:27:11 AM · #58 |
The REALITY is this: the site is going to grow and Grow and GROW!!! there is nothing that can be done to stop it. Digital cameras have been the number 1 selling consumer electronic device for almost a year.
Yes, it would be nice if you could vote on every entry in every challenge--but I doubt if many people have that much time. Yes, it would be nice if you could get more comments, but you will probably not.
So, what to do about it? Maybe spend more time looking at as many images as you can and commenting on as many as you feel up to. Enter the challenges that spark you. Have as much fun as you can, and don't worry about it not being what it once was...
From a programming/administrative standpoint, maybe an easy solution would be to change the 20% rule to 20% or xxx, whichever comes first. |
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07/06/2005 10:27:54 AM · #59 |
Originally posted by fotolady:
I really like the idea of a "doesn't meet the challenge button"!!! If your entry gets a certain (would have to be large) number of clicks, then you will be DQ'ed. I love that idea. |
Too subjective.
I was just wondering: In the almost two and half hours that this thread has been running, how many votes might you have cast? Of course if you were voting during that time, my humbliest apologies! |
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07/06/2005 10:28:08 AM · #60 |
How about you only have to rate (at least) a certain number of images rather than proportion... say 100? That way an increasing number of entries doesn't mean more voting for everyone else, but it does mean each person should get more votes and therefore a more representative score. Voting should be by way of only seeing random images to prevent people cherry picking... the thumbnails only available for viewing purposes and not rating.
Isn't that a straight forward solution requiring minimal adjustments that everyone can get on with? |
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07/06/2005 10:29:55 AM · #61 |
Originally posted by skiprow:
The REALITY is this: the site is going to grow and Grow and GROW!!! there is nothing that can be done to stop it. Digital cameras have been the number 1 selling consumer electronic device for almost a year. |
Just as a side note -- I read recently that consumer digital sales are actually stabilising a lot now, and there will be consolidation in the market. I wouldn't be confident that DPC is going to grow as strongly as it has been.
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07/06/2005 10:32:09 AM · #62 |
My opinion is to vote as many as you are able to in order that they come up ... and then if you ahve time do a little more ....
DPC is growing...We will ahve lots of people in the challenges. Member challenges have less people in them if youare concerned that you cant get to all the people in the challenge.
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07/06/2005 10:33:16 AM · #63 |
As has been mentioned, the SC is discussing the "problem" and potential solutions or if any is needed.
Until then, please remember that for your vote to count, you only need to vote on 20%. I know for some that seems like you are falling down on the job, but, IMHO, it is better to vote for 20% than for none.
And FWIW, this is one topic that I don't consider whining. I feel it is a legitimate concern. Way back in the days, there was considerable hubabaloo about the first challenge that had 100 entries. these discussions were had then, as well. I do see it as a potential issue as the site continues to grow. |
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07/06/2005 10:34:34 AM · #64 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
I don't understand why someone would hold back from entering, or unsubmit their entry, simply based on the number of entries in a challenge. Can someone please explain their thinking on this? rex? fotoshootme? |
Well. . . the reason I hate entering challenges with 400 or 500 entries is because if I enter a challenge, I want to vote on all the entries. I want to see everyone's entry,and I would like the majority of voters to see mine. I think most people like to vote on more than 20% of the entries, and when a person is trying to vote on 400 or 500 entries, I can't believe they aren't hurrying through them, giving each one barely a cursory glance, and not wasting time commenting on many of them. The challenges get cumbersome, all the pictures start running together, so that none of them stand out. Plus, if it were only occasionally, it would be one thing, but it's getting to where now it's every single open challenge. It's just not worth it to me. That's my 2-cents.
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07/06/2005 10:43:13 AM · #65 |
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by skiprow:
The REALITY is this: the site is going to grow and Grow and GROW!!! there is nothing that can be done to stop it. Digital cameras have been the number 1 selling consumer electronic device for almost a year. |
Just as a side note -- I read recently that consumer digital sales are actually stabilising a lot now, and there will be consolidation in the market. I wouldn't be confident that DPC is going to grow as strongly as it has been. |
i think that any stabilization and consolidation may be only a lull before the coming Christmas season. there are new products on the horizon, old products to unload, and current products that are hard to keep in stock. every where i go, i am continually amazed at just how many more people are getting into the craze--and dpc is one of the first places people find when they start looking for online resources.
i really wouldn't be surprised if we start having challenges with over 1000 entries. i'll bet that it happens before next summer ;-) |
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07/06/2005 10:46:55 AM · #66 |
My personal gripe is the voting on 20% of the challenge being enough when it is not random. The fact that it is not random and at the same time not a requirement for all pictures to be voted on causes some statistical problems. If the pictures were chosen at random, even capping the votes at 20% or 200 (which ever is larger) would be quite enough.
Maybe implement what previous threads have said, only show the thumbnails after that picture has been voted on. |
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07/06/2005 10:47:09 AM · #67 |
i don't think it's fair to knock other users for discussing this topic. if you don't see it as a problem then don't read this thread.
i also don't see a need to call people out as whiners when we WERE having a very civilized discussion.
everyone who has posted a note here telling us that we should be voting instead is also spending time posting rather than voting. i'm just sayin'...
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07/06/2005 10:47:31 AM · #68 |
Originally posted by skiprow:
i really wouldn't be surprised if we start having challenges with over 1000 entries. i'll bet that it happens before next summer ;-) |
What do you bet, Mr Rowland?! ;-) I'll have a piece of the action. ;-)
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07/06/2005 10:47:58 AM · #69 |
Originally posted by SandyP:
Well. . . the reason I hate entering challenges with 400 or 500 entries is because if I enter a challenge, I want to vote on all the entries. I want to see everyone's entry,and I would like the majority of voters to see mine. I think most people like to vote on more than 20% of the entries, and when a person is trying to vote on 400 or 500 entries, I can't believe they aren't hurrying through them, giving each one barely a cursory glance, and not wasting time commenting on many of them. The challenges get cumbersome, all the pictures start running together, so that none of them stand out. Plus, if it were only occasionally, it would be one thing, but it's getting to where now it's every single open challenge. It's just not worth it to me. That's my 2-cents. |
Thank you SandyP. That was a very coherent answer to my question.
I like to vote on all entries, and especially when I have a horse in the race, so to speak. But I don't want to let the number of entries deter me from voting if I am not 100% sure I am going to find the time to get to all of them.
And if I go to the trouble to shoot and edit an image that I like and feel fits the topic, I sure as heck am not going to hold back from submitting it just because 500 other users have done the same thing.
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07/06/2005 10:48:19 AM · #70 |
The biggest problem I think with a huge amount of entries is just voter fatigue. Staring blankly at the screen going "5...5...5...5...5...5" without really giving too much thought to a photo. IMO, better to vote the 20% and do it well than try to do 50% or 100% and skim.
And though this is not the appropriate place to mention it, I'll do it anyway as I'm too lazy to begin another thread.
I'd love to see a Member Free Study every other month. Since DPC is so international, there are different seasons happening at different times around the world, different weather, different festivals, etc. Somewhere around the world each month is the PERFECT time for someone to be taking spectacular photos that we'd all love to see and vote on.
Maybe once a month is too much but 6 times a year would give everyone a fair shot at showcasing their best work and if you leave it to members only it should at least keep the entries down a bit.
With another challenge to prepare for and vote on, it might keep some people from entering others which would reduce the total amount of entries on some challenges.
Message edited by author 2005-07-06 10:53:05. |
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07/06/2005 10:48:24 AM · #71 |
Originally posted by yeoua:
My personal gripe is the voting on 20% of the challenge being enough when it is not random. The fact that it is not random and at the same time not a requirement for all pictures to be voted on causes some statistical problems. If the pictures were chosen at random, even capping the votes at 20% or 200 (which ever is larger) would be quite enough.
Maybe implement what previous threads have said, only show the thumbnails after that picture has been voted on. |
it IS random until people pick and choose through the thumbnails. i too like the idea of hiding the thumbnails for images that you have not yet voted on. but, that's a topic for another thread really. :) |
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07/06/2005 10:52:51 AM · #72 |
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Originally posted by skiprow:
i really wouldn't be surprised if we start having challenges with over 1000 entries. i'll bet that it happens before next summer ;-) |
What do you bet, Mr Rowland?! ;-) I'll have a piece of the action. ;-) |
if there's a 1000+ entries in a challenge by 6/21/06, you give me my choice of an 8x10 from your port; otherwise, you take your pick from mine ;-) |
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07/06/2005 10:54:33 AM · #73 |
| About the idea of a doesn't meet challenge button. Look at my decision entry. I debated the fact that at that time it was a decision being made. Other members here didn't see it because they don't watch baseball and didn't know any different. But to the ones that do watch they know that a decision is being made. I am just as guilty as the rest and if I didn't watch baseball I wouldn't know for sure a decision was being made. It would also force everyone to think the same and not "outside the box". So a "Doesn't Meet the Challenge" button would suck. |
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07/06/2005 10:54:56 AM · #74 |
Originally posted by skiprow:
if there's a 1000+ entries in a challenge by 6/21/06, you give me my choice of an 8x10 from your port; otherwise, you take your pick from mine ;-) |
Ok, you're on! 21st June 06 - that's going in my diary.. :-)
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07/06/2005 10:55:53 AM · #75 |
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Ok, you're on! 21st June 06 - that's going in my diary.. :-) |
You have a diary?
:-)
Message edited by author 2005-07-06 10:56:09. |
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