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07/07/2005 12:54:02 PM · #26 |
Black.
White.
It's so neat and tidy but the gray area is where we live, people.
I hate what the UN did to Romeo Dallaire's mission in Rwanda, allowing almost a million people to die because there was no intervention.
But I also hate what NATO did in the bombing campaigns in Yugoslavia.
I hate that there was nobody to properly intervene as the Khmer Rouge killed and killed and killed in Cambodia.
But I also hate what the US did in Viet Nam...
We need to be smart. We need to stay away from blanket statements. We need to avoid the divisiveness that can only lead to evil.
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07/07/2005 12:55:47 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by bcoble:
My question is how many democratic countries kill there own people and threaten their neighbors? |
We have Texas to do most of the really ugly stuff but as a nation we're not all that bad.
...just kidding
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07/07/2005 12:57:29 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I happen to be a Native American Indian. My tribe was from an area that is now known as Sparta New Jersey.
AND I WANT ALL MY LAND BACK!!! |
Iroquis ancestry here. I'd certainly lay claim to NY state.
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07/07/2005 12:59:53 PM · #29 |
I'm german...so do I get half of Europe now?
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07/07/2005 01:02:38 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I happen to be a Native American Indian. My tribe was from an area that is now known as Sparta New Jersey.
AND I WANT ALL MY LAND BACK!!! |
Iroquis ancestry here. I'd certainly lay claim to NY state. |
What do you suggest we do with all the buildings and people living there before we give it back |
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07/07/2005 01:05:13 PM · #31 |
The Cree lay claim to a large portion of northern Quebec. It made for interesting debate during the last separation referendum (Quebec should be allowed to separate from Canada however the Cree territory is not allowed to separate from Quebec, hmm, what is wrong with this picture?)
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07/07/2005 01:06:12 PM · #32 |
live 5 minutes from sparta nj....the craziness in the world is not new ....it just takes different forms
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07/07/2005 01:17:31 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by PhotoRyno:
Originally posted by Flash:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I happen to be a Native American Indian. My tribe was from an area that is now known as Sparta New Jersey.
AND I WANT ALL MY LAND BACK!!! |
Iroquis ancestry here. I'd certainly lay claim to NY state. |
What do you suggest we do with all the buildings and people living there before we give it back |
Keep the buildings. For the people, I'd suggest that they be placed in Internment Camps encased by tall cinderblock walls and lots of barbed wire.
Or pack everyone up and move them to Louisianna.
...just kidding
BTW for the record, I'm not a Native America.
Message edited by author 2005-07-07 13:25:03.
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07/07/2005 01:51:33 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Flash:
Let me try to state this simply; |
But with all due respect, Daniel, you can't. Widen your views. Look beyond the propaganda (or wherever you've got your views on islam as a religion.) It is the same as someone criticizing the west for holding women tied up, throwing them in the river, and burning them if they floated because they are witches. Or, you are talking about someone enslaving someone else - MLK would have loooved to talk to you about that one.
I can't really reply to statement like this one. If I try to talk some sense into you and disagree with you, you can call me [wrongfully so] a jihadist, and send people with torches and pitchforks to get rid of me. You see, with such attitude, any dialog is precluded. You are on the right side, and anyone that does not want to go with you and kill all those people and convert them to the proper religion is against you, guilty for the 9/11 and should be deprived of freedom, possibly improsoned and deported to Guantanamo where proper interrogation techniques can be applied without regard to western values and basic human rights otherwise available to the people that are with us.
Similarly, I am against any form of terror, and against any form of weapons when applied to people of any color/race/creed. What side does that put me on?
I am against the terrorists, so I am against jihad, against anyone killing thousands of people in the name of religion. That must mean I'm with you. On your side. Fine. But, I am also against going out and ruining lives of 100s of thousands of other people in the name of freedom for someone from someone else. That puts me against you.
So, which one is it going to be? Am I going to be enslaved by jihadists or produced into saint by getting the world rid of islam?
I think neither. This is not black and white, no matter how hard you try to convince us/them/the world.
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07/07/2005 01:56:56 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Makka:
So in that case, if we don't particularly agree with how someone is running a country we should all go in and blow crap out of it? Hey, Robert Mugabi isn't doing a very good job at the moment! Let's go blast Zimbabwe off the map! Or maybe we should supply him with weapons first so he can have a war with his neighbours and THEN say tut tut, you're being a bad boy and blow them away? Fair enough Saddam was a totally insane dictator and killed many innocents, but I don't believe going in all gun-ho is the answer. More people are dying today in Iraq than ever! The country has gone to shit! |
Have you spoke with someone that has been directly involved with the war and came back from there? I have....my boss for one....there is a LOT of good that is happening over there...unfortunately the news doesn't like to show the good things....people (again unfortunately) are more drawn to morbidity than goodness. Do I agree with war? No....is it sometimes necessary? Yes. Depends on the issue and what is at stake.....when people are being oppressed and have no means to defend themselves and talking/discussions don't work...sometimes aggression needs to take place.
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07/07/2005 01:59:51 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by Makka:
So in that case, if we don't particularly agree with how someone is running a country we should all go in and blow crap out of it? Hey, Robert Mugabi isn't doing a very good job at the moment! Let's go blast Zimbabwe off the map! Or maybe we should supply him with weapons first so he can have a war with his neighbours and THEN say tut tut, you're being a bad boy and blow them away? Fair enough Saddam was a totally insane dictator and killed many innocents, but I don't believe going in all gun-ho is the answer. More people are dying today in Iraq than ever! The country has gone to shit! |
Per my boss, the people of Iraq aren't ready for us to leave yet...they aren't capable of protecting themselves %100 yet. We are working closely with their new government. Are all Iraqi's happy with us being there? No. But most are.
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07/07/2005 02:04:20 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by colyla:
Per my boss, the people of Iraq aren't ready for us to leave yet...they aren't capable of protecting themselves %100 yet. We are working closely with their new government. Are all Iraqi's happy with us being there? No. But most are. |
Who's your boss... bush? wake up and smell the coffeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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07/07/2005 02:09:13 PM · #38 |
You're right, Roesann! Colette, this is for you:
this is a photo site, after all.
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07/07/2005 02:21:00 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by fotoshootme:
Originally posted by colyla:
Per my boss, the people of Iraq aren't ready for us to leave yet...they aren't capable of protecting themselves %100 yet. We are working closely with their new government. Are all Iraqi's happy with us being there? No. But most are. |
Who's your boss... bush? wake up and smell the coffeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
No, my boss was directly under 2 colonels in the Army in Iraq. She helped implement (along with a team of people) the schools/colleges and worked directly with the Iraqi's. She was there for a year (leaving her husband and 4 kids here) to HELP the Iraqi's.
edited: also...please don't tell me you're one of these people that believes everything they hear/see on tv.
Message edited by author 2005-07-07 14:21:58. |
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07/07/2005 02:23:04 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by srdanz:
You're right, Roesann! Colette, this is for you:
this is a photo site, after all. |
Thank you!! Could you make that an espresso please! :) lol
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07/07/2005 02:26:06 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by colyla:
Originally posted by srdanz:
You're right, Roesann! Colette, this is for you:
this is a photo site, after all. |
Thank you!! Could you make that an espresso please! :) lol |
Did someone say espresso? Make that two, thank you.
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07/07/2005 02:32:15 PM · #42 |
It's interesting. I have also recieved "eyewitness' accounts from Iraq. My cousin's husband has been over there now for almost a year I believe. He came home briefly last fall. When asked about the Iraqi attitude towards the forces there, he said it was amazing. They could be walking down the street and Iraqi children run out and hug them, their mothers smile and wave, even the men nod in appreciation.
Like coyla said, are all happy? No, but it seems to me at least two Americans saw a positive result.
Oh yea -- when Matt (the man overseas) saw the coverage while he was stateside, he was shocked at the idea that hte Iraqis hated the Americans. It didn't fit with what he and his team saw at all. |
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07/07/2005 02:47:40 PM · #43 |
I wrote a book titled The Heart Of Peace. Two thoughts from the revised edition:
Peace is not the absence of war;
But the absence of greed.
I am the fundamental soldier of greed.
Every moment offers me the choice
To strategize an offensive campaign
Or to abide in armistice.
Sometimes I get caught in the spiraling race and forget to step aside and realize nothing is beyond its purpose. Peace is not a condition within living history; it is a result of correctly understanding the value of life. |
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07/07/2005 03:33:44 PM · #44 |
Good news (or the truth) doesn't sell cars, shaving cream, tampons, cell phone service, or Brad Pitt's next movie.
So don't expect to get too much real news or the the truth for that matter...at least here in the States.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Message edited by author 2005-07-07 15:42:17.
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07/07/2005 03:42:25 PM · #45 |
I've sadly given up on it all and bought a Macro Lens. Everything is so upside down. Bad is good....failures and criminals sell books, Paris Hilton is considered a Star.
You used to have to cure a disease, paint some pictures, build the first airplane, write a concerto to become revered. Now all you have to be is a complete idiot.
All for now.......
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07/07/2005 03:52:38 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by Makka:
And hey! Let's waste $330 million dollars by flying a piece of metal into a comet! WTF is that all about? What a waste! Maybe another form of Star Wars defence? Sheesh! Why not invest it in a way to help these countries in some form or another? Doesn't Bush have to approve these missions? |
While we're at it, let's blame Bush for the common cold, venereal disease, acne, and unwanted body hair. 
Those kinds of space missions have been planned and executed long before Bush, and will continue to be planned and executed after he leaves office. Space missions only comprise a small percentage of the total budget, comparatively speaking. Let's find something else to argue about, OK? ;)
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07/07/2005 04:32:18 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by laurielblack:
While we're at it, let's blame Bush for the common cold, venereal disease, acne, and unwanted body hair. |
Can we?
Excellent. I'm sending the US embasssy a bill tomorrow for all the tissues and razors I've bought! |
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07/07/2005 05:11:48 PM · #48 |
For the record, I'd GLADLY give up a HUGE portion of this country and turn it right back over to the native americans. I have no problem with that at all. At the VERY least, this government should be building factories for jobs better schools, just as a first step.
Onto to the reality of giving land back, obviously you can't lay claim to land that has been out of your hands forever, or when another society has completely taken over.
In the case of the Jews ( and I am not Jewish so I don't even have a personal stake in this) the "Palestinians" ( a name coined by the British which was violently REJECTED by said "Palestinians") do not seek to share land, they seek to stamp out the Jews altogether. The land does not belong to "Palestine", yet they falsely claim it's really ALL theirs and that this holy war will not end until the Jews leave. Not going to happen, so find a way to compromise.
and I hope SOMEBODY spends 330 million on ramming into a comet for research because one of these days, a big one is going to be coming our way and we better know what to do about it.
I'll bet that 330 million that if an extinction sized asteroid / comet is on a collision course with Earth, it will be the USA that comes up with the money and solution.
Of course, after we save the world, people will complain about us somehow. |
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07/07/2005 05:13:29 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by srdanz:
Similarly, I am against any form of terror, and against any form of weapons when applied to people of any color/race/creed. What side does that put me on?
I am against the terrorists, so I am against jihad, against anyone killing thousands of people in the name of religion. That must mean I'm with you. On your side. Fine. But, I am also against going out and ruining lives of 100s of thousands of other people in the name of freedom for someone from someone else. That puts me against you.
So, which one is it going to be? Am I going to be enslaved by jihadists or produced into saint by getting the world rid of islam?
I think neither. This is not black and white, no matter how hard you try to convince us/them/the world. |
As anyone who has ever read my posts can attest, I do truly respect your views and that they may be different than mine. I also give you full quarter to be a pacificist and/or simply oppose the use of force against any human being. I am only stating the obvious to me, which is that if the jihadists against the west win, and become the rulers of the world, then the dictums under which you will find yourself are likley to find you executed as an infidel or forced to work as slave labor. I state this convincingly, because that is what every conquering power has done since the beginning of time. This is not new news, or some special insightfulness I offer, but rather just a matter of fact - fact.
The Chinese did it, the Egyptians, Mongol hordes, Romans, Celts, English, French, Germans, Italians, Native American's, Colonialists, Africans and all other people that have been on the side of the conqueror vs. the conquered.
I just do not see this as a complex issue at its core. That is; The principles of Islamic fundementalism twisted into the values of the jihadist vs modern western thought. The politics and emotion surrounding this issue is complex, but the choice between sides I believe is much more simple. One can choose to sit on the sidelines and wait for a victor to emerge, claiming after the fact an allegience to the conqueror, however in my view, the victory of the jihadists, would be as horrible to the conquered as any this world has witnessed.
sp edit
Message edited by author 2005-07-07 17:34:53.
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07/07/2005 05:51:46 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Good news (or the truth) doesn't sell cars, shaving cream, tampons, cell phone service, or Brad Pitt's next movie.
So don't expect to get too much real news or the the truth for that matter...at least here in the States.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
And that my friends is the truth. |
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