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08/15/2005 09:05:03 PM · #51 |
Who dug this thing back up?
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08/15/2005 09:29:50 PM · #52 |
The truth of the matter is that the majority of the voters decide the final outcome. By nature a challenge should be met but there are many ways to comply. There is the literal, the artistic, the fanciful and on and on. The important thing is that the final ourcome is decided by the sheer majority of the voting block. If they want to accept a spiral for a circle or an orange for an apple who is to say otherwise. They dominate and they decide. However, it is the individual who takes the risk when he interprets and dares be different. Again, the voting blocks decide. End of case.
I understand the arguments for staying close to the challenge guidelines, but it is not for anyone member to dictate how close or far an entry should be. The voting blocks takes care of that all the time. They decide how they want it, again by the sheer number of votes. |
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08/15/2005 09:39:47 PM · #53 |
| Yes, it is true that voters decide who wins, and from my perspective those images that would be attractive to the stock photography market are the ones that score the highest, meeting the challenge or not though most of the winners have met the challenge and taken great pictures. I take risks with my pictures, and my low scores show that. Perhaps a better camera would give me the clean crisp style that truly commands the voters attention. HOwever, I am technically limited and try to keep that in mind while taking challenge shots. I do agree that one of the great barriers is the cultural differences, but it also gives us a different perspective. I don't like the thought of us chasing away non-Americans because the voting is largely done by Americans. I hope we all remember that when voting, and try to gauge our vision in such a way that we can stretch ourselves to appreciate and revel in that global audience. |
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08/15/2005 09:47:40 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by graphicfunk:
...it is the individual who takes the risk when he interprets and dares be different. |
My point exactly. Sometimes is pays off, but most of the time it doesn't. It's a craps shoot. Place yer bets.
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08/15/2005 09:58:52 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by bear_music:
You have a knock for taking what I say and warping it into something that fits your preconception of what you THINK I am saying.
I agree that the OP has raised a legitimate issue. I am, in fact, engaged in discussing it. My POV is not quite the same as his, of course, but nevertheless I am engaged in discussion. More to the point, my original entry into this thread (the one you quoted above) was in answer not to the OP but to shadow:
Originally posted by shadow:
i think our votes will either encourage or discourage those who bend the rules on purpose? show them enough 1's and they will get the picture :p
I felt it necessary to make clear that "meeting the challenge" is not a rule and people who fail to meet the challenge are NOT guilty of "bending the rules"; surely we can agree on that, since the rules themselves actually SAY this in plain English? Since the "recommend for DQ" box clearly says also that "not meeting the challenge" does not break any rules?
And if it's not a rule, but it is strongly encouraged (which it is), then meeting the challenge is a "goal", right? You aren't gonna be ignominiously banished if you fail to meet the challenge, but you WILL pay the price if you don't do it obviously enough to engage the voters. It's a goal you have to meet if you want to score well. And the ONLY arbiters of "meeting the challenge" are the voters themselves.
Now, the rest of my post took off from that point and explored, rather mildly I thought, the idea that in MANY cases images areunfairly marked down, or even derided, for not meeting the challenge when in fact they DO meet it, and the voter(s) are simply too locked into their own cultural perspective, too unyielding (as it were) to recognize this. Water as a symbol of material wealth in an arid land is simply one of the recent examples of this.
My position here, which you are ignoring in your haste to set me up as a straw man to be countered with your own brand of perceived orthodoxy, is NOT that these images "deserved to win" and that the voters are too lame to realize it, but rather that this whole witch-hunt mentality of deriding certain entries for "not meeting the challenge" is more indicative of shortcomings on the part of the voter than it is a sign that the shooters are blatantly ignoring the challenge topic.
It happens, sure, but I don't think it happens that often; I think most entrants take a legitimate stab at meeting the challenge, i really do. It's just that a lot of us enjoy meeting it obliquely, "creatively" if you will.
I for the life of me cannot understand why we are publicly derided for doing this. Isn't it sufficient that we receive our mediocre scores? Are we in ANY way damaging the body photographic by showing our collective flashes of wit or creativity, however ill-fated they assuredly are? I don't see how that can possibly be.
Robt. |
Wow..now I had to quote that..great, a wonderful argument! Thanks for your thoughts. |
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08/20/2005 11:38:47 PM · #56 |
Seems a poll nor 'rule' (or guideline) is necessary (wanted) judging by the responses (or lack of). As for the previous post, it would have been nice if you had used your own words to fill up such a big chunk of the thread, but it is easier just to cut and paste. If anyone (other than the Admins) is going to 'kill this thread', I'd rather it be me (unless I get 'killed' first). So, a few final thoughts on this, as it touches a few 'nerves', (and to pre-empt another (and reply to the first) "who dug this up", I did!).
Perhaps I take the Challenges too literally, especially in the sense that I judge the effort made by others to meet the Challenge, that's the name of the 'game' right? I also do keep an open mind on intepretations, but it is, if I may quote, the "shoehorning", that was seemingly upsetting the balance (voting patterns vary, eg; some give 1's to DMC, I rarely do, is this pattern a factor? - that is another issue), that is what was getting to me. Yes, the bending so much it breaks (out of the theme/spirit) gets to me too, sure. The last Challenge mentioned 'title', again, maybe I took it too literally, but maybe I didn't (115 of 294 (give or take) submissions followed the 'title suggestion' for Time Capsule). For the record, I was not primarily speaking of winning submissions, but the majority of submissions within a Challenge.
On that 'winning note' re the (Time Capsule Winner), I am sorry (not for my comment or voting method) that some people thought it an apt 'venue' to ah, let's say 'highlight' my comment (vote & method) in the Post Challenge Comments section. I believe the thread "Challenge Results" may have been more appropriate, but there I go with my 'opinion' again. I really did 'feel' for the winner that that 'ugliness' in there detracted from what would otherwise be mostly a series of 'congratulations'. Second place I gave an 8 based on my voting criteria and 'guideline' (goal?) interpretation. Third place I liked too, but had the same issue as I did with the Winner's submission.
Commenting (including my comments/opinion on if something meets the Challenge); here is what I said in my first post in this thread "As for 'commenting', I have been 'burned' no matter what I try or try not to do there and so will just do what I want when I want regarding my 'comments'" - but the latest 'burn' has 'charred' the 'want'. In fact I had started to on some Rain entries (Live Music as well), then 'that' happened, I tried to go back to some of the 'stand out' (again my opinion) shots, but just couldn't bring myself to complete a comment. Perhaps later.
I do not have a 'flashy' camera, I am 'only' a registered user and I am not an experienced photographer. Do any of these factor into my 'credibility' here? I think they should, dependent on the issue. However there are some that seem to use it as an excuse to disregard the truth. I like certain styles of photography and enjoy(ed) having the opportunity (I thought?) to be a 'critic' (impersonal one) on them here. Perhaps my criticism is invalid, but I saw nothing on the site before I joined to make me think otherwise. In fact the contrary was what I 'gleaned', so I jumped in, yes at the deep end.
The fact that I have had the 'audacity/willingness' (insert apt word) to (re)raise a few 'controversial' issues has not been taken as it was meant. I do like this site, and the 'criticism' was not meant to be negative, nor am I trying to 'change it'. If anything, I was seeking 'reinforcement' of the (what I thought were) original boundaries. I thought I understood what the site was about, plus have asked for clarification (further to what is on the 'About page'), so that I knew what 'ballpark' I was playing in. When I first came here I gave one or two sentence 'comments', then realized that users were seeking more 'constructive' or 'opinionated' comments, so I tried to be more in-depth, even including my score and why I gave it so low/high. Yes, including if meeting the Challenge was a factor or not.
I feel that being honest here and taking time to comment in-depth (even on site issues) is not always 'appreciated'. There also seems to be a little 'spite' floating around here too; I have seen a couple of my comments checked 'helpful', then 'unchecked'. Some don't get marked at all (if it is because it was unhelpful, ok, but if it was 'personal', that is spiteful). There are also a few who seemingly never mark any comments helpful (who knows why). To those that have supported my 'views' and found the comments I made helpful, even in some small way, thanks. To those whose brain cannot take such a long post, give it a rest, or as they say; "Ignorance is bliss.", but then there is that pesky reality for some of us. And yes, while 'this site' does allow a little 'escape' from reality (for some) and is 'just a game' (for some), just define the boundaries of 'the game' as the player numbers increase.
At the end of the day, though a little discouraged and uninspired, I think some Offspring abuse is called for; "...he asked for a 13 but they drew a 31...".
Message edited by author 2005-08-21 00:21:53. |
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08/20/2005 11:46:55 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by jbsmithana:
Ok let me say the obvious. I you really want to help this site then why not join it as a Member? That way you provide financial support to help keep it alive and evolving. Not that I'm ignoring your concerns as I do vote based on if a photo meets the challenge. I may still vote it high but never at the top if I think it does not. |
Registered Users as well as Members are welcome to offer suggestions to improve the site. DPChallenge does a great job on selling itself on the strength of the community and the site features. I'd rather not see us develop a culture of pressuring people who, for whatever reason, are unable to or choose not to purchase a paid membership.
-Terry
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08/21/2005 12:37:19 AM · #58 |
Wow... All I have to add is that it's amazing how many people can't see the forest for the trees. This is an incredibly fun & educationaly site about measuring and improving yourself (at least it is for me). I offer my opinions as just that - someone else's point of view. People can take it or leave it - I'm happy with either. It's just amazing to me that some people have to take themselves and their work so parsimoniously. You'd think they were politicians or something... lol :-)
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