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08/11/2005 11:26:28 PM · #1 |
I have a chance to shoot a senior portrait. She is a coworker, very cute and perky, but at times rather air headed. We will be taking outdoor shots...she will be paying me (something...still working on that concept)
SOOOO, I know NOTHING about Senior Portraits other than they seem to charge alot to the poor old seniors for them - $100-150 for a sitting fee?? I have no idea what they get for prints, but $300-400 is a common total, and up to $600 or 700 is not uncommon, and this girl's friend spent a GRAND on her senior photos!
Sooo....what is the normal shots or charges for such things? I was thinking $65 for the first hour, $40 after that. As many poses, locations and clothes cahnges as you want, and the proof book. Prints cost extra. Probably gonna give her a discount and lots of biz cards...I was gonna do the proofs in a 6x9 Illuma Books softcover (20 pages, plus cover, my cost is $10 plus shipping.) Something cool she can pass around school...something different.
So when she wants prints, she already said she wants lots of wallets - what 9 or 12 fit on a $2 8x10 print...so even if i mark that up to $12, give her 4 sheets/poses of that, figure 8x10's at $15 and 3 or 4 of those, a few 5x7s at $8 each (cost is 29 cents)... I have a price sheet from a pro lab that does textures, coating, BIG prints...have to check it out and think on things. Still, I'd be hard pressed to get to $200 let alone $400!
So anyone out there do this for income, or have seniors that have done it...what is 'normal'?
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08/11/2005 11:28:22 PM · #2 |
Need a backup photog, chris? seriously, lemme know. Is she 18? ;)
anyway, I can't remember what I paid for senior pics, but I know there wasn't a sitting fee -- probably just paid an insane amount for the prints.
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08/11/2005 11:31:49 PM · #3 |
The studios here get a base of about $60-75, if you do the studio and outdoor shooting, and buy a bunch of prints, you could pay near $350. The prices might be low because there's pretty much a monopoly on certain schools where one photographer gets about 600 people or more from a class.
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08/11/2005 11:42:42 PM · #4 |
shoulda posted this before, but why don't you see if she's interested in letting you use her photos as stock...then waive the sitting fee provided she signs a release :D
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08/11/2005 11:49:28 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by deapee:
shoulda posted this before, but why don't you see if she's interested in letting you use her photos as stock...then waive the sitting fee provided she signs a release :D |
Oh, she'll do a release. I don't ahve a contract type thingy anyway, so i'll just use that. A contract thingy is kinda next on the list, for weddings anyway.
18...I would think so. I worked with her at EnP, she was there for 2 years...had to be 16 to start, right? I don't think my place hires anyone under 18.
I gotta get a portfolio of something together tonite...and then by monday get in some practice outdoors with my flash - i got is monday off ebay and the sync cord arrived today, so i know it works is about all I know!
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08/11/2005 11:58:17 PM · #6 |
those prices sound good, I was charging less last yr (my first few jobs) and everyone told me it was extrememly cheap. I think it was $50 sitting fee and the prints were a little less then ur price. This yr I am just taking some self portraits and calling it done cause I don't want a photoshoot or to pay for it LOL :)
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08/12/2005 12:06:20 AM · #7 |
Its been 13 years ago, but my father paid $600 for my senior pictures. I remember there was one large canvas picture, some 5x7's for the grandparents and about 200 wallets for invitations and friends. Thats it. But she took about 20 different pictures. I think I changed clothes 5 times, and my hair was fixed different twice. It took 2 days!
Message edited by author 2005-08-12 00:06:59. |
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08/12/2005 12:18:15 AM · #8 |
If you have time and can find it, I recommend this book. High School Senior Portrait Photography by John Giolas. I got it when I took some senior pictures for my friend's daughter.
Also, do a google search for High School Senior Portrait Photography. Loads of sites come up and many with samples. Those will give you all kinds of ideas on poses.
Good luck. |
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08/12/2005 12:28:42 AM · #9 |
Hi! My daughter is going tomorrow to have her senior pictures done. The sitting fee is $60 for 5 clothing changes. The photographer will do about 10-15 poses for each change. The sitting fee is about the cheapest here in town. Some photographers charge over $100. Of course, it depends upon how extravagant the senior wants to get, I suppose. Some travel to parks and such to take pictures.
The prints are what dents the pocket book. My daughter wants a lot of wallets to send out to friends and relatives. I'll be taking her out to do some poses of her myself and also shoot some group shots with her friends. I figure I can get wallets printed a lot cheaper through DCP Prints, then she and her friends will have memories of them together.
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08/12/2005 12:30:46 AM · #10 |
Check out this site for senior portrait ideas.
Beautiful photos. They have a cool thing going. I'm going to attend a seminar given by them next month. I'm so psyched about it. |
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08/12/2005 01:53:00 AM · #11 |
marmalade1121 - definitely something different. Lots of 'cross processed' images - not sure how to achieve that look in PS...open to suggestions!
lepidus - I did that. Printed some pages to show her for ideas. After about 10 sites, well, ok 3 sites, it gets rather BORING.
Overall...One photog had a different take on things - you could do traditional session - $30-40, 28 proofs and buy prints. OR get a 'digital session' for $120-130 and have 60 images on CD that you can print anywhere you like whenever you like, even at home he says...Hmm...interesting concept. have to sleep on that one. Not sure i am ready to give up my control over the print.
Wallets seem REALLY popular...have to work on that idea a bit. Winkflash has 4 for 29 cents. Cheap enough, huh?
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08/12/2005 04:39:21 AM · #12 |
| Some of those photos in that last link are stunning - does anyone know how they were achieved? Would playing around with the contract help? |
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08/12/2005 07:23:33 AM · #13 |
my daughters are both seniors this year and went to the photog at school and we received about 30 proofs a package with frigging nothing cost 400.00.. There is no way I am paying that kind of money for soemthing we can do for free. Jezzzzzzzzzzzzz These place should be shut down for ripping people off.
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08/12/2005 07:41:42 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by khdoss:
Jezzzzzzzzzzzzz These place should be shut down for ripping people off. |
When did profit become a dirty word in this country?
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08/12/2005 10:54:22 AM · #15 |
profit or profiteering?
I want to 'turn pro', and would prefer to do weddings. So i have been reading some books on running a photography business, and very often senior portraits are mentioned as more profitable (per hour of labor) than weddings! I now see why. I can't say I understand why.
I suppose if that is the going rate, go for it. I happen to think senior packages are quite high in price for what you get. A studio near me that is pretty big in the senior market does 80-90% in studio, spends an hour, does maybe 30 poses - BUT you only get to print one or two of them!
As in, their top package:
1 - 11 x 14, 3 - 8 x 10's
6 - 5 x 7's
69 - Wallets
$400.00
2 Pose Selections
Ummm, do the math. Figure an hour prep and in studio, an hour in PP (if that - only 2 poses.) Many studios charge extra for retouching beyond dust specs. Perhaps by limiting to 2 poses they include some retouching. Winkflash does nice work, choice of 2 finishes, and the printing cost with shipping of the above would be under $20. Lets say you mount the 4 bigger prints on mount board, and put hte 5x7s in folios...still under $40. Go with Mpix and let them do all the work $42 plus matte boards.
2 hours, $40-50 in materials and you charge $400.
Yeah, I under stand overhead costs and such, but c'mon! that is $1600 in an 8 hour day.
Hey, lets all be senior photographers, work 30 days a year and be 'artists' the rest of the year?
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08/12/2005 11:08:53 AM · #16 |
marmalade, I soooo envy you if you are attending that studios workshop. The people in their photos seem so relaxed , even the wedding site photos. The couples look like no one else is in the world except them.
My 2 cents on the senior thing is that alot of them want to include their hobby, sport or pet in their photos to personalize them.
As for the profit thing, profit is good,but how you handle it is a personal choice. There are potential clients who have money to burn and those who don't, one thing that helps the ones who don't is a payment plan. I am a single parent who didn't get much child support for years. My daughter gave me the list of "things she needed " for her graduation including her pictures, I gave her the list of our household bills--she looked at me with shock in her eyes and said, "Mom, you can't afford me" and I said "I know, and I have two kids". She spent the rest of the afternoon revising her list of "things she needed" and cut it down to a quater of the price, she continues to do that even today. She always has what she needs and enjoys what she has and it never costs her an arm and a leg. My son does flea market business and he gives discounts to keep people coming back because he feels that he will make his money in the volume of people that buy from him in repeat business instead of by making his prices higher. I think both concepts may work. Will he ever be rich? Who knows, Macey's is making money and so is Walmart(your discount store) |
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08/12/2005 11:12:30 AM · #17 |
| go to your local bookstore and head to the photograpy area. they have some great ideas for poses and styles. I have bought about 15 books to help me out..posing people is really difficult and it's something that doesn't come with the camera manual. it should..hehehe |
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08/13/2005 11:22:07 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by mattb001:
Some of those photos in that last link are stunning - does anyone know how they were achieved? Would playing around with the contract help? |
I'll share some secrets after I go to their seminar. Hehe. |
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08/18/2005 06:14:55 PM · #19 |
| Cheers - pretty major typo I made there too! |
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03/29/2008 10:51:44 AM · #20 |
Hi, I have met and attended seminars with the couple that owns that particular company. It's called boutique style photography and it's getting bigger. they actually only do about 50-60 seniors a year, but they're very high priced. very high quality too. it's too much to explain exactly how they run things, if your serious about this type of photography and you think that you can achieve it, i strongly suggest attending one of their seminars. I can tell you this though, they use very little external light sources, such as strobes. most of it is natural light. the biggest reason they can charge up to 3-4000 dollars for packages (yes they really do and yes people really buy it) is that they offer that nobody else doesn't. The main thing is their photoshop techniques. all of their graphics and embelishments are sold at their seminars for a fee, and are in photoshop brush and pattern formats. but they also have a deal with their lab (which I think is ACI), that puts reflective metallic stamps on canvas paper with a glossy coat over it. their prints are amazing. The best way to figure out pricing schemes is to look at your area and see what's going to work. it's best to make up your own, use terminology from other pricing schemes but make your own prices to the best of your own abilities. to the first guy that posted on this thread, you NEED A CONTRACT, even if you think you won't get burned, you might. the people who do best in this business are the ones who take it the most professionally from the start. if you act professional people perceive you as a professional. your not just taking pictures for her, but for her parents who know other parents who have other kids... see what I'm saying.
Message edited by author 2008-03-29 10:52:41. |
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03/29/2008 11:10:36 AM · #21 |
I love how old threads resurface from time to time. :-)
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05/18/2010 02:55:55 AM · #22 |
I'm reading a lot of posts from people complaining about the cost of senior portraits (or professional photography in general) and noticed the term "profiteering" used. It is understandable why people might criticize what they do not understand. I would venture to guess that most of the critics have never run a photography business...and I'm not talking about shooting on weekends for vacation money. My post is to defend the full-time, dedicated, professional photographer.
I noticed someone complaining about a photographer possibly making 1600.00 in a day. First, do you think every single hour is spent shooting? Even if they have some days like that, do you really think that is ALL profit???? The costs of doing business don't just involve the retouching or time spent shooting. Good photographers invest large sums of money in cameras, lenses, education, lighting, stands, brackets, filters, computers, software, assistants, rent, utilities, advertising... and the list goes on. Personally, I work from home so I can avoid the expense of a studio space but still have many different expenses that go into my pricing. All those things, including time, get factored in to the "outrageous" cost of prints and the session fee. No photographer could shoot 8 sessions a day without hiring some help; wake up.
Part of this perception that professional photography should be "cheap" likely comes from the availability of cameras that can produce surprisingly good results. However, just owning a Nikon D90 doesn't automatically make someone a good photographer, does it? Wouldn't that be like me buying the best skillet money can buy and then calling myself a chef? Don't you think Chef Emeril might make a better meal than the fry cook at TGIFridays? Wouldn't Emeril be justified in charging more?
Also, when it comes to cameras and lenses, there is a big difference in quality of the image produced...especially with lenses. When I invested 2,000.00 in a 70-200 f2.8 lens, the difference was night and day over my cheap lens. From there I soon bought two other pro-level lenses because quality means everything to me and that helps separate me from the "weekend shooter." That photographer will often use the consumer-grade equipment that came in an all-in-one package and they shoot everything with just their on-camera flash pointed directly at the subject. I see it all the time.
Knowledge of lighting: A lot of inexperienced photogs say "I only shoot in natural light" as if it is better. Sometimes it is but I believe that many of them say that because they don't know how to effectively use artificial light OR balance the flash WITH the natural light. How do you learn that? Experience and education.... things that factor in to the price or your work. I guess a "natural light" shooter can't produce good images after the sun goes down.
Equipment is one thing; creativity is another. I have seen photogs who have the same camera and flash units as me but saw their images and was surprised at how bad they were. Good equipment is no substitute for creativity, composition or knowledge of how to use light...both natural and artificial.
A good photographer can get better results with a point-and-shoot than a weekend hack with the best camera they can buy. I'll put money on that.
With all that said, I've run across some photographers that charge too much relative to the quality of their work; I'm sure that contributes to the perception I'm refuting. I've seen some with years of experience but compose the faces of their subjects dead-center, leaving me to ask "what were they thinking?" Sadly, the availability of better cameras over the last several years has many people saying "I'm a photographer!" That makes it much harder for consumers to understand quality and what it takes to produce it.
Before you complain about photographers charging "too much" please ask yourself "can I do better?" Or, "can XYZ Photo Guy do better with his 95.00 package and all my images on CD?" If the answer is "yes" than whine away. If not then please understand that this is a BUSINESS for many of us; not a hobby. Good photographers should charge more because they create a product that justifies the price AND they probably worked their ass off to get where they are.
Just my two cents. |
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06/03/2010 09:52:25 PM · #23 |
Here are some Senior Photo ideas for you.
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06/03/2010 10:06:56 PM · #24 |
Im doing several senior photos.
Here is what Im charging:
$75 for sitting fee (one location) 3 outfits cap/gown - sport/club/instrument - casual
$125 for sitting fee (if 2 locations many want outdoor photos around here) 5 outfits all above and 2 more casual
and for extra 25 one of mom and senior or mom/dad and senior (the parents love it)
This started with just one... I have scheduled now. |
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06/06/2010 02:02:00 PM · #25 |
| If she's a senior in high school you better check with the high school about what they require for a picture to appear in the yearbook. Most high schools require girls to have a picture in the classic v-drape. My son's high school required the background to exactly match the "official" photographer's background. Another nearby school only required a solid colored background. I have about 25 kids whose parents want me to do their kids' senior pictures this year, but I told them - my camera doesn't fire until I have specs from the schools. |
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