| Author | Thread |
|
|
08/19/2005 07:49:24 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by bledford:
I appreciate those responses telling me to "lighten up" but, honestly, I'm putting more thought into this stuff now so I don't come off as a complete jack ass tomorrow. I will be very casual tomorrow for sure, but sometimes when I get casual (and I've had a few beers) I can do some really stupid stuff. :) Give me a rented 70-200 and WATCH OUT!!!
I know when I need help and I've asked for it. Most of you have helped. Thanks guys. DPC's forums are a god-send. |
I don't think it's you they are telling to lighten up. heh.
|
|
|
|
08/19/2005 07:53:38 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by deapee:
I don't think it's you they are telling to lighten up. heh. |
Oh, I suppose you're right. I think I need to lighten up about lightening up.
It's beer thirty West Coast time about now isn't it? LOL. Thread...dead. |
|
|
|
08/19/2005 08:48:58 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by sage:
I used to think that it was coincidence that alot of them came across as a$$holes... but now i'm beginning to think that they weren't actually a minority... |
I'll take that as a compliment.
|
|
|
|
08/20/2005 11:53:31 PM · #54 |
Something kind of funny ( at least to me ) happened at my 2nd cousin's wedding.I had asked my cousin if they needed a photographer and she said they had forgot that I was trying to get into photography or they would have asked me. They had hired a co-worker of the groom to photograph the wedding. This was ok with me becasue I wasn't ready for that kind of pressure anyway. I took my Nikon 2000 with zoom lens with me anyway so I would have photos of my family from the wedding. I steered clear of the photographer ( who looked professional) and later at the reception I did the same. I really thought he hadn't noticed me.
I had been to my cousins for 4th of July picnic several months back and had taken pictures , but since I rarely see any of them I didn't have a chance to show the photos to anyone. So I found a quiet corner and pulled out my Walmart copies to give them to the bride's mother. Before I knew it I had attracted a small crowd of cousins who were obviously enjoying my photos very much and asking for copies. Suddenly out of nowhere the photographer rushs up to me asking me if those are pictures of the wedding ( as if I had time to develope them.) From the look on his face, I believe there would have been hell to pay if they were. I calmly showed him that they were my cousins photos taken by the pool and he apologized and disappeared. I don't think I saw him anymore. Even if I could have got the pictures developed that fast, I would never have been rude enough to interfere with the job he was paid to do.
When I saw my cousin later that year she said they paid him $1800 for the job. I gave her my copies, she said she liked mine better and couldn't believe they had spent all that money when I was giving her these for free. I had got alot of candid photos of the family that meant alot to her. She made a collage and mixed my photos with his. If I hadn't known which ones I shot I wouldn't have been able to tell it was from 2 cameras. The thing is, these people meant something to me so I had every right to be there taking photos unless they objected. So, my opinion is, go, be a friend, and don't cause a scene by annoying the photographer if you can help it. He shouldn't have a problem with you if you don't try to upstage him, if he does, that's his insecure problem. |
|
|
|
08/21/2005 12:07:07 AM · #55 |
| Pixieland, does bring up something....More and more brides and grooms are wanting the candid photos in addition to the posed ones. The candid ones bring out more emotion in people anyway, because there is usually a story that goes with them. Each posed shot has the same story...I was told to stand here, and smile. Each candid has numerous stories they can tell. |
|
|
|
08/21/2005 12:21:52 AM · #56 |
Originally posted by bledford:
Give me a rented 70-200 and WATCH OUT!!! |
I always bring my "travel bag" with me to any wedding I attend as a guest... and by far and away my favorite lens to shoot with is my 70-200/2.8L IS. You rented it, stick on your cam and fire away! It is great for sniping candid shots from afar, both at the ceremony and at the reception... here's a tip: while the "hired photog" is setting up any "formal poses" (assuming they aren't PJ-only and know how to do formal poses), use the 70-200 to zoom in on the happy couple, any kids in the wedding party, the parents, whatever and capture some tight close-ups. Then nobody can accuse you of pimping his shot over his shoulder.
With the raging popularity for "photojournalism style" wedding photography, it means you don't need to know anything about posing, exposure, dragging the shutter, light control, composition, etc. Just set your camera to Av with the lens wide-open to ensure shallow DOF and then go nuts... don't be afraid to stand on tables or lay on the floor, tilt your camera wildly, include motion blur, people with weird expressions not expecting a photo, bathroom shots... whatever you want -- and if anybody questions anything, just say "that's the latest rage... it's called PJ style".  And if you are thinking about throwing any snapshots in the trash, convert them to B&W and crank up the contrast before you do. That can often help save them; call them "artistic images" if the need arises.
Message edited by author 2005-08-21 00:38:32. |
|
|
|
08/21/2005 12:35:51 AM · #57 |
The candid shots are great. Let the Bride and Groom hire a pro to do all the formals, stay back, shoot from afar, get the emotions. My cousin went wild for my informal candid pics at her wedding. I met and chatted with the photographer, a real pro who had been doing weddings for over 25 years. He even gave me some tips and tricks he learned way back. You are not competing with the paid guy. It's all for "her day" anyway.
|
|
|
|
08/21/2005 12:38:18 AM · #58 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
With the raging popularity for "photojournalism style" wedding photography, it means you don't need to know anything about posing, exposure, dragging the shutter, light control, composition, etc. Just set your camera to Av with the lens wide-open to ensure shallow DOF and then go nuts... don't be afraid to stand on tables or lay on the floor, tilt your camera wildly, include motion blur, people with weird expressions not expecting a photo, bathroom shots... whatever you want -- and if anybody questions anything, just say "that's the latest rage... it's called PJ style". [img] |
You say that like it's a bad thing!
|
|
|
|
08/21/2005 12:40:01 AM · #59 |
| I am doing the same thing for a co-worker in August, just focusing mainly on getting ready photos, candids of guests and the dance. I was the bride last year and gave 2 of my cameras to friends to take photos while we were all getting ready, at the reception, etc. (Unfortunately, someone put the camera in manual focus and my friend took 4 ROLLS of film that way!!! They were horrible.) So, lesson learned, have someone you trust take the candids. The pro is getting paid to set everyone up and worry about getting perfect shots. I'm going to get those moments that no one else may see, or that the bride will forget later. I agree to stay out of the paid person's way though! |
|
|
|
08/21/2005 07:46:32 AM · #60 |
| In regards to the wedding that I spoke of earlier and basically most any wedding that I have gone to, my main objective has actually been for me to take photos for me. These people are my family or friends and I want the photos for my personal collection, but I always share with them because I love them. I believe that is the viewpoint of most of the "Aunt Betty" and "Uncle Bob"'s who are there, even if they have a nice SLR like I had. Maybe the photographer thinks that the couple or family won't buy his extra shots if they have everyone elses. This might be somewhat true to a certain degree but it should not stop him from doing his thing. I'm thinking that with all this discussion on this topic it means that "times are changing" and since alot of people have cameras now, Pros need to step up to the plate, continue to produce the best quality they can and at the same time find things that keep them one step ahead of the "aunt and uncle". It's tough, but it's a tough world we live in. We can cry about someone "stealing" our thunder but we better be prepared to get it together and go one step better than them. One way is to try to get your paycheck up front like someone said and try to give the couple your photos in a fast turn around before they have a chance to get the non-pro ones. Face it folks, people are getting pretty savy about how this stuff works these days, making their owwn copies at home and all, (like we all know we are capable of)so we need to find reasons for them to still want our services. Physically knocking the competion over sounds like fun (LOL) but it's only a temporary solution. We have to knock them over with a better service and product, something they can't get just anywhere. So maybe we better head back to the drawing board to find inovative ways sell ourselves to the happy couple and to "knock the competion out of the ballpark". Remember in lots of cases its marketing that makes the difference in profit more than the actual product. |
|
|
|
08/21/2005 09:08:53 AM · #61 |
Originally posted by mavrik:
Originally posted by bledford:
What would annoy you as a hired wedding photog? |
More specific annoyances:
1) People standing behind me shooting over my shoulder. I warn them once. Second time I back up extremely quickly to repose the couple. I'm 6'1 and large. If I move backwards quickly, people go down. Doesn't happen a third time.
2) People making suggestions while I'm shooting - I'm the hired pro and I know how to do my job. At the last wedding, I offered to go get something to drink while Aunt Betty and her Nikon D70 did the rest of the formals if she thought I was doing poorly. Aunt Betty went and got something stronger than Diet Coke.
3) People breaking rules I am told to follow. If there are not photos to be taken during the ceremony, DO NOT TAKE PHOTOS DURING THE CEREMONY BECAUSE THE PRO WILL GET PISSED. If you aren't supposed to flash, or if you don't KNOW you can flash, DONT FLASH. There's nothing more annoying then to be told "ok you have to stay in back under that balcony and don't flash" and then have Aunt Betty and her D70 light up the place with a stroboframe while standing in the second pew.
M |
LOL. You wouldn't be considered big at any of my families weddings and if you acted like that all of the amateur photographers would end up having some very interesting photos of 'where uncle bob shoved your tripod'.
But seriously, would you risk spoiling an entire wedding because of an annoying jerk? Not very professional. To the contrary, if I saw you putting up with my annoying family during a wedding you'd be up for a big tip.
Professionalism and courtesy is always appreciated and rewarded and brutality is repaid in kind. |
|
|
|
08/21/2005 09:38:34 AM · #62 |
| Can I make a suggestion here. Instead of trying to duplicate or outdo the professional there, why not try to get the kinds of things that he/she doesnt get. The pro will have all the basics and standard items covered. Why not get the other neat things the the pro cant get to, while they are setting up formal shots or covering the events of the wedding. Faces in the crowd, family members, etc. |
|
|
|
08/21/2005 10:28:00 AM · #63 |
Originally posted by photodude:
Can I make a suggestion here. Instead of trying to duplicate or outdo the professional there, why not try to get the kinds of things that he/she doesnt get. The pro will have all the basics and standard items covered. Why not get the other neat things the the pro cant get to, while they are setting up formal shots or covering the events of the wedding. Faces in the crowd, family members, etc. |
Thats exactly the point, well put.
I have been asked to the "periphery" shots independent of the formal photographer at several weddings now. I find getting the candid pics much more enjoyable than the formals. The photographers NEVER have a problem with me. Here are a couple from a recent wedding.
 
|
|
|
|
08/21/2005 10:38:43 AM · #64 |
Originally posted by bledford:
OK, here's the scenario. I have a long time friend getting married in San Jose tomorrow. I wanted to bring my camera to get some nice shots for him and his wife in addition to any pro. photographer they've hired. In fact, I went ahead and rented a 70-200 2.8IS for the occasion.
This begs the question: what can I do to make sure I don't offend or tick off the pro photographer with my big white lens and loud Digital Rebel? What would annoy you as a hired wedding photog? |
You know, if you were just a "regular guy" (read = before you knew anything much about photography or pros or what-have-you) and you took your camera and lens to the wedding, you wouldn't be worried about this at all because it wouldn't even cross your mind. Just go because this is your very good friend, and you have the right to take pictures right along with Aunt Sally and Uncle Jack. Don't worry about the pro. You're going to the wedding because this person is special to you, and you want to document the day for your own sentimental reasons and to share with your friend. If the pro tells you to stop, bring it up to your friend. He's the one paying for the pro's services, not the pro's direction on who can and can't take pictures at the wedding. Don't worry about it. Just use common sense and don't get between the pro and the people he's shooting, and don't distract the subjects when he's working with them. Other than that, have a great day and have FUN with your shots because you CAN. The pros don't usually have that luxury. :) |
|
|
|
08/21/2005 09:48:00 PM · #65 |
OK,
So i just shot a wedding, and there was another photographer there. He walked up to me and said: "I'm a friend of the brides father, and I've been asked to take some candids. I'm just letting you know and I won't be in your way"
Well, he kinda was. He was just hovering around me the whole time. Pretty irksome. And dropping little remarks to me about this and that. (pose them this way, the shades 2 stops different, etc...) I've never had a problem before, but it really got to me.
I spoke to him for a few minutes and found that he's an "old school" wedding photographer. ie: he's old, bland, grumpy, and IMO not very creative or talented (i just looked at the photos he has online, but won't share his site because that's just not very cool)
So, if your gonna shoot at a friends wedding, and they hired a pro to do the job, just make sure you introduce yourself and stay out of their way. The pro is working, and if you were at your job, you wouldn't want so guy who doesn't work with you to tag along all day trying to do your job for you. (unless you have a really nasty job!)
|
|
|
|
08/21/2005 10:23:42 PM · #66 |
Ultimate solution for people being unnerved by your rented white Lens:
Magic Marker.
Put little stickers over any place on the lens where it actually says "L".
That way, everyone is happy... the B&G, the pro, you, the rental agency, AND the little kids running around going *COOL* You've got a Transformers Camera...
PS. Kids also think the flame lens hood is REALLY cool... |
|
|
|
08/23/2005 03:26:54 PM · #67 |
Having recently gotten married, I did hire a professional to do my wedding. But, being into photography, I anticipated this problem, and delt with it before it arose, so everyone was happy. I talked to the pro before hand about my family, explaining I was the first to get married on one side, and the 3rd on the other, but the last one was 5 years ago on that side, so to be prepared for lots of camera happy relatives. I then got my brother and sister to spread the word around my family to not shoot over the photographers shoulder - there would be lots of time to get the shot, and that the pro would leave time during the posing for the family to get in there. We shot at 3 locations, and family was only allowed at one - the other 2 were the photographer, myself, my husband, and 2 of our groomsmen to drive us around and carry water for me. It worked out wonderfuly.
And the other thing that happened, and this was because the Justice that married us requested this, was the Justice made an announcement just before we went over to sign the marriage licences that only the professional photographer was to take the pictures of the actual signing of the licences - and that everyone would pose afterwards for all the family to take the pictures they wanted. This worked out wonderful - one of my favorite shots is from this from the pro that would of been tricky to get with my family going picture happy all around her.
I guess the key is communication before hand. Not the easiest if you are a guest, but a phonecall to the bride a few days before, or arriving early to talk to the pro before everything gets started, will solve all of this 'should I or shouldent I' delima of possably stepping on toes.
It is a wedding, and the pro can not stop the guests from taking pictures. They can ask that pictures not be taken from directly over their shoulder, and they can ask guests to move out of the way for their shots, but that is about it.
As a bride, I can only suggest that you sort it out before hand if possible. I can honestly say that if any confrontation had happened during my special day, there would be hell to pay for making me step into a situation to pull rank as bride. Espically given that the situation would be between adults that should be able to work out their differences.
|
|
|
|
08/23/2005 04:02:00 PM · #68 |
I personally would be carefull I have shot a few weddings and didn't mind another photographer taking pics behind me I only asked them to not take pictures when the camera was up to my eye (which is all of the time).
Although, I have been some what in your situation. I was a friend of the bride and groom and they called me up the night before saying, "Help, our photographer is a dits can you come tomorrow and take pictures for us?" I said sure and quoted them a "friend" price and left it at that. I showed up the next day and started taking pictures like normal and then I saw her....The Other Photographer. Needless to say she wasn't to happy to see me there at all. So I gave her the space that she needed and let her do her job. I continued to do mine as well though.
After the wedding I went to the reception and I was taking a few pictures here and there and the bride and groom told me to come and take family pictures for them. It had been a half hour so I looked around and didn't see the other photographer there so I said sure. well 10 minutes into the formal shots I ended up backing into the photographer when she was taking a picture. OPPS! well the end of the story is I got paid for the pictures against my will cause I felt so bad. ( But I am not complaining )
All that to say, "Test the Waters."
Sorry for the long post |
|
|
|
08/23/2005 04:10:37 PM · #69 |
Just my .02 worth here. In my contract I have a clause about no other professional gear being allowed. Under the contract if someone is shooting with pro-gear, (just about any DSLR can be considered such), I can walk and keep the $$$. Have I ever done this, NO!!! That would be stupid. It's in there so if a guest becomes obnoxious by getting in the way or setting off my slaves I can ask them or the Wedding Coordinator to have them stop. I have never had to even threaten this but it covers my butt if the guest gets stupid about the situation. That is how I explain this clause when asked.
Most guests who have been taking shots at the weddings I have covered have been very nice, (except for the few drunks at the receptions.) I don't mind suggestions either, the Bride and MOB dosen't always list everyone they want so I feel it's safer to cover the bases.
I shoot both posed formals and PJ style candids in my coverage, I could care less if someelse is shooting the event also, I've already been paid. I've even suggested better angles and lighting tips to guests at weddings, there not stealing my work.
Almost all my weddings come by word of mouth, (approx. 20 per year). Being polite, but firm with the out of hand shooter is the best method in my book.
On the subject of interference though, would you or caterer put up with it if "Aunt Sally" went into the kitchen and told the caterer how to prepare the meal? This is why you hired a pro, if you don't trust them or they can't or won't give you the coverage you need then you should find someone else. Not ask cousin Jimmy to come in and cover the pro "just in case." This hasn't happened to me in quite a while but it is very annoying. |
|
|
|
08/23/2005 05:10:52 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by rlinn3:
In my contract I have a clause about no other professional gear being allowed. Under the contract if someone is shooting with pro-gear, (just about any DSLR can be considered such), I can walk and keep the $$$. |
It's your contract and you can do what you want. But I hope you don't honestly believe that a real photographer would need "pro gear" to capture amazing images. There are any number of "real" photographers out there who could use an inconspicuous Leica M6 at a wedding and their results would smoke just about anybody here on DPC (including myself) who was there shooting with a camera case full of pro-gear.
If you are confident in your abilities to capture images better than some guy who happens to have money to blow on "pro gear", who cares how many other drunk "Uncle Bob"'s there are swinging around D2H's?
Message edited by author 2005-08-23 17:11:51. |
|
|
|
08/23/2005 06:21:54 PM · #71 |
| EddyG, read the rest of my post! I have never done that and never would, it's a stick for keeping obnoxius people at bay. Also the rest of my post says in effect, "I could care less who else is shooting, I've already been paid" |
|
And if you are thinking about throwing any snapshots in the trash, convert them to B&W and crank up the contrast before you do. That can often help save them; call them "artistic images" if the need arises.
