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12/09/2005 02:52:48 PM · #1 |
I want to ask a question: pictures that are published here in the Challenges, is it ok if they have been published before on large websites in the photographer's country of origin? So publisher can have vote for those photos from his country friends and are also member here ? I ask because I thought it was an anonymous competition. If this is the case, it would be beneficial to note in the regulations.
Icerock |
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12/09/2005 02:58:04 PM · #2 |
I'm not sure there is a hard and fast rule that will get you DQd, but I know some folks here have others besides the wife and kids look at images before entering them - so it is more a matter of scope than concept.
Remember, the image must be taken during the challenge period.
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12/09/2005 03:56:34 PM · #3 |
Sounds to me like IceRock is asking about something quite different than asking the wife and kids help you decide which shot to enter. Perhaps the community has gotten to the point where we need to review our policies/rules regarding anonymity.
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12/09/2005 04:00:07 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by IceRock:
I want to ask a question: pictures that are published here in the Challenges, is it ok if they have been published before on large websites in the photographer's country of origin? So publisher can have vote for those photos from his country friends and are also member here ? I ask because I thought it was an anonymous competition. If this is the case, it would be beneficial to note in the regulations.
Icerock |
It is supposed to be anonymous but many here suspect block voting does go on. |
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12/09/2005 04:00:56 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Sounds to me like IceRock is asking about something quite different than asking the wife and kids help you decide which shot to enter. Perhaps the community has gotten to the point where we need to review our policies/rules regarding anonymity. |
Hear! Hear! or is it Here! Here! ? hmmmm
I agree! |
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12/09/2005 04:38:32 PM · #6 |
I don't believe there's any rule that covers whether you can post a picture on another web site before or during a challenge. Posting it (or a link to it) in the forums here would be frowned on. And just for clarification, by "published before", I presume you are keeping in mind the fact that pictures must be taken within the challenge period. You can't use a picture taken weeks, months or years before the challenge, whether they were posted somewhere else or not.
Another thought that just occured to me as I was about to click "Post"...
If you do include a picture that has been posted on another web site, and that is a popular enough site that voters have a chance of maybe seeing it in both places, you may "confuse" those voters, in that they may think that the picture submitted here was stolen or copied, which can sometimes have a negative impact on their score. (I'm not arguing rightly or wrongly, just stating a fact.) |
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12/09/2005 05:16:47 PM · #7 |
After rereading the Challenge Rules and Terms of Service, the only thing I see which might be applicable in this case is:
Ownership: The photograph you enter must be taken and post-processed by you. You may let someone else press the shutter if you are unable to, but you must be the one who set up the shot and configured the camera. If you wish to collaborate with others when creating your submission, you will need express permission from the administrators beforehand.
If an image is posted prior to submission for the purpose of review by other photographers, this action may be interpreted as "collaboration" among all parties involved. To the extent that all parties involved benefited from analysis of a potential submission, it could be agrued that any submission by anyone involved in an illegal or unrecognized collabortion should be considered tainted and subject to disqualification.
edit: anyone for someone para. 2
Message edited by author 2005-12-09 17:22:17.
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12/09/2005 05:50:18 PM · #8 |
Jammur, in the past, that paragraph has dealt more with groups that collaborated specifically on challenge entries. For example, if I were teaching a photography class, we may have one account that we submit through. And I would have to have permission to do so.
If I post to pbase or photosig or somewhere, and get opinions of my online friends, it is not against the rules, though many would argue it is against the spirit of the competition.
While I can see the value in keeping entries anonymous, I can also see the value of learning from those who know more. |
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12/09/2005 05:59:14 PM · #9 |
The photos are your property -- DPC can't limit your use of them. If your challenge entry includes your kid, and you want to post a copy for the grandparents to look at without waiting for the voting to be over, you are free (and encouraged) to do so.
What violates the rules is attempting to manipulate the vote here. Merely posting your image elsewhere, and even (privately) asking a few friends for their opinions, is fine -- a completely insignificant number of voters will know your photo. Posting a link to the photo here in in the forums is not OK, as it advertises the identity to your photo to the DPC community as a whole.
Again, it is vote manipulation which is the violation, not "breaking anonymity" -- we once had someone put his name in the title, and in the Self-Portrait challenges, we will often know who the photographer is as well.
Message edited by author 2005-12-09 18:00:18. |
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12/09/2005 06:02:27 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by ScottK:
You can't use a picture taken weeks, months or years before the challenge, whether they were posted somewhere else or not. |
The loophole here would be the month long "Free Study", or the year long traditional "Best of" challenges, which could easily appear in more than one place.
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12/09/2005 06:07:53 PM · #11 |
So, photography by committee is permissible.
Glad we clear that up.
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12/09/2005 06:09:34 PM · #12 |
| Well, let's not forget that those month or year studies usually attract a large crowd. Your friends are gonna have to vote on 80-100 pictures to get your "10" to count. If they do it with any thought, then why not? If they don't, I assume the troll alarms will snag them out... |
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12/09/2005 06:12:12 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Jammur:
So, photography by committee is permissible.
Glad we clear that up. |
Are you volunteering for voter non-collaboration policing? I suppose we'll all have DPC key loggers installed, and you can watch the e-mail of 47,000 memebers?
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12/09/2005 06:13:43 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Jammur:
So, photography by committee is permissible.
Glad we clear that up. |
I suppose you don't talk to anyone all week until your challenge entry is "in the can."
I'm not sure what your point is. We have one class of developmentally disabled adults who sometimes submit one entry amongst them, and I'm sure some (other) parents help their young kids upload entries -- I know groups of DPCers occasionally go on photo excursions together, but otherwise I'm unaware of any "committees." What's the problem again?
Message edited by author 2005-12-09 18:14:11. |
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12/09/2005 06:18:25 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Merely posting your image elsewhere, and even (privately) asking a few friends for their opinions, is fine -- a completely insignificant number of voters will know your photo. Posting a link to the photo here in in the forums is not OK, as it advertises the identity to your photo to the DPC community as a whole. |
I was under the impression that even posting a link is not against the rules. It is discouraged, but not a violation of any rules.
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12/09/2005 06:19:39 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Well, let's not forget that those month or year studies usually attract a large crowd. Your friends are gonna have to vote on 80-100 pictures to get your "10" to count. If they do it with any thought, then why not? If they don't, I assume the troll alarms will snag them out... |
I don't see voting blocks as a issue. In fact that idea would seem the most difficult route to vote manipulation. However, I have been here long enough to realize the effect a few good PS techniques can make to improving an image from a 5 to an 8. Why change a few peoples votes, when you can change everyones?
BTW, isn't the spirit of competition what really counts?
If not why do we get so upset when an athlete uses steroids?
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12/09/2005 06:26:23 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by IceRock:
I want to ask a question: pictures that are published here in the Challenges, is it ok if they have been published before on large websites in the photographer's country of origin? So publisher can have vote for those photos from his country friends and are also member here ? I ask because I thought it was an anonymous competition. If this is the case, it would be beneficial to note in the regulations.
Icerock |
I don't think I have to be a monitor in this case. It appears that Icerock is a whistle blower.
He is informing us about a conspiracy.
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12/09/2005 06:32:01 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Jammur:
BTW, isn't the spirit of competition what really counts?
If not why do we get so upset when an athlete uses steroids? |
I think in this case, and as I tried to point out before, it's not about the steroids, it's about policing them. How is DPC supposed to make sure that no one shares files?
No options really come to mind, a key-logging or other DPC installed software to make sure that no-one is blogging/posting/e-mailing can be circumvented just by downloading the image, not deleting it from cam/card, applying the same effects/PS on another computer and send it out.
It's not like we can blood/urine test for file sharing here is it?
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12/09/2005 06:35:07 PM · #19 |
I've had a question sort of along these lines as well....
I frequently look through Recently Uploaded Photos in order to have fun and make some comments. There are photos I see on there which quite specifically fit an upcoming challenge. And then, sometimes, I am not surprised when I actually come across one of them IN the challenge.
I guess I just thought that we weren't supposed to be putting possible challenge submissions into our portfolios....at least until the challenge was over... |
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12/09/2005 06:37:20 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Jammur:
So, photography by committee is permissible.
Glad we clear that up. |
I suppose you don't talk to anyone all week until your challenge entry is "in the can."
Discussing ideas is one thing, but critiqing actual entries?
I'm not sure what your point is. We have one class of developmentally disabled adults who sometimes submit one entry amongst them, and I'm sure some (other) parents help their young kids upload entries -- I know groups of DPCers occasionally go on photo excursions together, but otherwise I'm unaware of any "committees." What's the problem again? |
From your statement I assume each of these collaborations is done with the knowledge and, at least passive, permission of the SC, therefore I can find no problme in these cases. Its the unauthorized clandistine collaborations that trouble me.
Message edited by author 2005-12-09 18:50:13.
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12/09/2005 06:42:34 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by ladyhawk22:
I've had a question sort of along these lines as well....
I frequently look through Recently Uploaded Photos in order to have fun and make some comments. There are photos I see on there which quite specifically fit an upcoming challenge. And then, sometimes, I am not surprised when I actually come across one of them IN the challenge.
I guess I just thought that we weren't supposed to be putting possible challenge submissions into our portfolios....at least until the challenge was over... |
You know, I never even thought about that before.
I think this just needs a little bit of sobriety here, getting drunk on injustice is kind of addictive. Some people take lots of photos, and happen to change their mind at the last minute on what they will enter, it could be an honset mistake.
The point is: is a particular contestant trying to form voting blocks, or trying to sway others with their votes? I think it's an honset question. But again, how do you really police such behavior? Since it's not in the rules, more of an implied rule, technically people can share their image without the intent towards collusion. If if there were collusion, this would be a hard witch to hunt.
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12/09/2005 06:54:38 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by Jammur:
From your statement I assume each of these collaborations is done with the knowledge and, at least passive, permission of the SC, therefore I can find no problme in these cases. Its the unauthorized clandistine collaborations that trouble me. |
Quite so ... permission is generally active and explicit : )
Really, I don't think we've had a significant problem with "unauthorized collaborations." |
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12/09/2005 06:56:50 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Really, I don't think we've had a significant problem with "unauthorized collaborations." |
That is probably correct but it's possibly the case that we don't know about them?
Message edited by author 2005-12-09 18:59:29. |
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12/09/2005 06:58:28 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Really, I don't think we've had a significant problem with "unauthorized collaborations." |
Neither did the DNC before Watergate :p
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12/09/2005 07:01:04 PM · #25 |
Posting the link isn't against the rules, but how it's done might be.
"Hey y'all -- check out my entry in the ___ challenge and then give me a good vote" might be an example of illegal use of a legal action.
(borrowed your link for formatting purposes) |
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