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06/23/2006 03:32:25 PM · #1 |
"Why I Don't Comment More, Especially on Shots That Really Need It"
by Sheila
Because, no matter how nicely I word them, no matter how clear I make it that it is MY opinion, how the shot affects ME, what *I* feel would improve how *I* (and possibly others) would rate it, I will receive emails during the voting telling me that I'm wrong. Some will be rather argumentative, some will have a more coercive tone, giving me the feeling that they want to coax me into increasing my score.
Maybe I'm just thin-skinned, but I really don't appreciate feeling attacked for trying to be helpful. And there's always the chance that, since I'm not a professional photographer, I'll make a mistake in terminology or the like, then see my comment thread-posted in derision. It hasn't happened to me, but I HAVE seen it.
I also don't like getting PM's during voting that "explain" their shot.
If it needs explaining then generally you failed to convey to me your intentions, and that's something that you need to take into account. If I was the only one who failed to see it, don't worry about it; one vote change of 1 or 2 points won't make that much difference. If several mention it, think about that.
In my second challenge entry, "Footwear", I had 31 comments, mostly DNMC. It DID meet challenge. The main subject was a pair of slippers. But I failed to make that obvious, so my shot bombed. Yes, technically the voters were wrong, but it was MY fault they were. My first reaction was to tell them, defend myself, but instead I watched my score tank and LEARNED something more valuable than a good score.
Yes, I could go "bag head" to avoid getting PM's during voting, but people complain about THAT too.
And then there's the people who only mark complimentary comments as "helpful". Why should I suggest anything that might improve the shot if they only want to hear that it's "nice"? I don't do "nice".
I'll tell them WHY I think it's nice, but I don't give out vague, meaningless pats on the back.
I always appreciate it when I get messages AFTER voting that thank me for a helpful comment, but I don't expect them. It's just not feasable for most people to individually respond to every comment, as well as doing their own voting and commenting. Hey, we need SOME time left to actually use our cameras, right?
So if you want me to comment more;
-Don't PM me trying to sway my vote.
-Don't dismiss my opinion out of hand if you don't agree with it. Take it into consideration and see if there may be any merit in it.
-Don't publicly deride me.
-Don't assume I gave you a low vote because I gave you a suggestion for improvement.
-Don't get angry if I prefer to maintain anonymity (both of the voter and the entrant) during voting.
-Do feel free to contact me AFTER voting if there's something you'd like to clarify nicely.
-Do accept that I'm giving my opinion and, though you may not agree with it, respect my right to it. No, I'm not a professional, but neither will be most of your viewers, inside of DPC or out.
-Do treat voters and commenters with the respect you hope to receive.
-Do lighten up, and remember that there IS life beyond DPC! :D
Sheila |
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06/23/2006 03:39:54 PM · #2 |
I agree to all your conditions! In fact, they're my standard policy.
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06/23/2006 03:45:20 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
In my second challenge entry, "Footwear", I had 31 comments, mostly DNMC. It DID meet challenge. The main subject was a pair of slippers. But I failed to make that obvious, so my shot bombed. Yes, technically the voters were wrong, but it was MY fault they were. My first reaction was to tell them, defend myself, but instead I watched my score tank and LEARNED something more valuable than a good score. |
and you know why it scored poorly (if it did, i have not looked).
had you gotten 3 comments "WOW,a 10" and similar, and still gotten the score you call 'bombed' how would you feel?
Yeah, it's not fun being told 20+ times DNMC, but at least you learned from that. 3 "I love this shot!" and getting a 5.1 does not make one improve, it reinforces mediocrity.
So you are not a "pro" and can only say what you like or don't like - well that's how your voting - so you should be able to put it into words.
As for helpful comments, i don't generally mark one word or ego feeding comments has helpful. Cause in reality, they aren't.
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06/23/2006 04:42:07 PM · #4 |
Sheila, I couldn't agree with you more.
Langdon, please think about doing the "opt-in for comments box"..... it would HAVE to improve the situation so much with just a small change.
Please!!! |
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06/23/2006 04:49:24 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by Beetle:
Sheila, I couldn't agree with you more.
Langdon, please think about doing the "opt-in for comments box"..... it would HAVE to improve the situation so much with just a small change.
Please!!! |
Seconded! :D
I would be sooooo much more willing to offer my observations to those who I know want them! I do recognise that some people are here just for the competition and don't welcome suggestions. Give us a tool to help focus on those who DO want them as a learning aid (eg. ME!). |
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06/23/2006 04:50:10 PM · #6 |
I agree that would be a very useful feature.
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06/23/2006 05:53:38 PM · #7 |
Okay, I've brought this up with teh SC, but now I'm trying to get my brain around it.
So, essentially what you are asking for is a box that a person checks upon submission that says "Yes, please leave a comment on this picture." or something of the sort.
My initial reaction is that it is a pretty good idea, but I don't know if this is the best route. Using the critique club as an example, until something was "required" a huge portion of the entries had that box checked.
I would almost suggest that it be "not" checked by default (thus marked somehow that comments are needed/wanted), and can only be checked after the submission is made. Sometimes it is better to add a step or two to "prune" the situation.
Again, the more I think about it, it does seem to be a good idea, but I don't know the best way to implement it. |
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06/23/2006 05:59:57 PM · #8 |
Karmat thank you so much for at least bringing it up for discussion!!
The way I see it, it needs to be something where we actively have to tick one box that asks for comments, but also another that is some sort of pledge to accept all kinds of comments and not complain if they are negative.
I know that means TWO boxes, but for those of us who really want comments, that is not too much.
Those who don't want to tick them, won't get comments - which is exactly what we want - a way of knowing who truly does want them.
It is not only good on a per person basis, but also per photo.
There are times where I really don't need them, yet other times I desperately do want feedback.
We would be able to funnel our energy to where the feedback is wanted, instead of wasting our breath AND getting abused for our efforts. |
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06/23/2006 06:02:54 PM · #9 |
That would be totally fine with me, if I understand what you mean.
When we submit, we mark a box saying that we welcome comments, if we so choose. Then, during voting, if we see the box unmarked we can still comment, but are aware that they may not be welcomed or appreciated. But if it IS marked, we can feel reasonably free to leave our suggestions, kindly and thoughtfully given, without fear of reprisal.
Sounds great! :D
eta:
THANKS, KARMA!!!
Message edited by author 2006-06-23 18:15:29. |
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06/26/2006 02:30:35 PM · #10 |
another solution, easier to implement than a checkbox for every challenge, is to have a checkbox in people's preferences. Something like:
comments slut _
comments snob _
Your preference will appear with your challenge photo. "Comments snobs" are all those people who say they only want "constructive" comments with "specific" information, plus those people who only want comments from people who score better than they do. "Comments sluts" are people like me who think any comment (as long as its honest) is better than no comment. Checking off "comments slut" is an implicit promise that you're not going to complain about comments you get.
I leave it to the SC to pick more appropriate terms... :)
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06/26/2006 02:44:55 PM · #11 |
comments wretch_
Up is not so much an ambition, it's just the only way left.
:) |
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06/26/2006 02:53:10 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
I leave it to the SC to pick more appropriate terms... :) |
Might be hard ... |
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06/26/2006 02:56:59 PM · #13 |
I've posted this before ... from another site, where the comments are actually applied to your work, they list several options for receiving feedback:
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06/26/2006 03:01:37 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I've posted this before ... from another site, where the comments are actually applied to your work, they list several options for receiving feedback:
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I like that. maybe...
"I'd be interested in any feedback you can offer."
"Constructive criticism only, please."
"I don't need comments right now, thank you."
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06/26/2006 04:39:11 PM · #15 |
I dunno, if a person is getting nasty pm's in response to comments left, it might not be a bad idea to rethink tone and manner. Having empathy and humility does not mean one is vapid and superficial. If the intention is truly to help, keep the photographer receptive to your words.
Perhaps this site should have a 'how to comment' faq.... a little basic psych. |
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06/26/2006 04:41:14 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by meanwile:
Perhaps this site should have a 'how to comment' faq.... a little basic psych. |
Tutorial |
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06/26/2006 04:44:34 PM · #17 |
Thank you. That suffices. Now, how to get it into actual practice....
edited to say 'thanks' 
Message edited by author 2006-06-26 17:11:13. |
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06/28/2006 02:52:35 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
And then there's the people who only mark complimentary comments as "helpful". Why should I suggest anything that might improve the shot if they only want to hear that it's "nice"? I don't do "nice".
I'll tell them WHY I think it's nice, but I don't give out vague, meaningless pats on the back. |
See, I'd rather that people didn't mark *anything* helpful as opposed to the standard "mark it helpful just because it's a comment". Personally, I mark constructive comments helpful, not the "nice shot" once. There are some that I've marked helpful even though the overall tone of the comment (at least to me) was quite rude.
My frustration is people who want to be constructive, but do it in such a tone that they come off as complete asses in the process. "This is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong" without any suggestions or technical comments. |
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06/28/2006 03:08:14 PM · #19 |
How about ...
I value comments and won̢۪t shoot the messenger. |
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06/30/2006 12:33:56 AM · #20 |
oops
Message edited by author 2006-06-30 00:36:08.
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