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10/12/2003 05:12:20 PM · #1 |
It's quite upsetting that the photo I supplied is being voted a 4.7 something when it is obviously the best photo I have submitted so far. In the desolation challenge, I submitted an out of focus landscape shot that also recieved a 4.7 something.
I have got no negative comments so far, so what the heck is wrong with my picture. Your votes say I have failed the project if we look at it as a percentage.
When I vote, I am grading like a teacher. I give a 5 which means that yes, the photo is on topic and acceptable for the challenge, though it was not striking, it is good work. You pass. 4's and below are reserved for anything so very off topic or with really bad flaws that it would be a failing grade (which is not many). 8's, 9's, and 10's are reserved for photo's that are obvious contenders for the win. I grade those based on personal opinion, because I can't usually see any major tech. flaws.
With Votes Cast = 1641 and Avg Vote Cast = 6.0024 I must be way too generous!
Sorry for ranting, I guess I will have to wait to see the voting results.
Message edited by author 2003-10-12 17:14:24. |
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10/12/2003 05:37:29 PM · #2 |
To complain about the voting is just a mistake man and I know it because I have done it quite recently ending up writing words which did not match my thoughts.
I am not telling you that the voting system is perfect. I partecipated to more than one conversation even proposing alternative ways of voting.
Sometimes it can be inconsistent, so what? Its inconsistency (as well as its consistency) is impossible to prove because of the nature this kind of competitions.
Everybody can vote, regardless his/her actual experience in photography and even experts can have a bad day at home and vote "inconsistently" in one occasion.
Ultimately, it comes to having fun and to stop doing it when you don't have fun anymore. And, also, start it again whenever and if you fancy it again.
Don't waste your time thinking of inconsistency (like I wasted mine with fantasy trolls). There are better things to do. |
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10/12/2003 06:11:48 PM · #3 |
Come on, the points are just there for a bit of fun. It's the comments that are of value, not the points. Unfortunately you contradict yourself here EL-ROI when you say that "8's, 9's, and 10's are reserved for photos that are obvious contenders for a win". If you vote like you expect the masses to vote then you're like a sheep, and you in effect devalue the whole voting process. I find this quite ironic, but never mind.
If you get valuable comments then participating is worth your time. If you're here to win, fine, but don't expect not to be bemused by the whole voting process. |
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10/12/2003 06:12:36 PM · #4 |
When I vote, I am grading like a teacher. I give a 5 which means that yes, the photo is on topic and acceptable for the challenge, though it was not striking, it is good work. You pass. 4's and below are reserved for anything so very off topic or with really bad flaws that it would be a failing grade (which is not many). 8's, 9's, and 10's are reserved for photo's that are obvious contenders for the win. I grade those based on personal opinion, because I can't usually see any major tech. flaws.
**************************
Seems like a good way to ensure fairness. I outlined my voting criteria on my photographer's profile page. Still in certain challenges there is a majority or a derth of well executed photographs my tendency is to grade on a curve. This could be what you're experiencing -- not as much what you are entering, but the overall quality of all entries.
For example: In the Urban Landscape competition I gave out more fives than usual for 2 reasons. 1)There were a huge number of entries and 2)There was a large number of high quality photos. So I felt higher marks had to be reserved for the best of the best. Conversely I also gave out more 8's through 10's as well.
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10/12/2003 06:19:50 PM · #5 |
when it is obviously the best photo I have submitted
Everyone has there own idea what are their best pictures. And I think you have some nice Pics. So, lets just see what the final results are. :)
Message edited by author 2003-10-12 18:23:38. |
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10/12/2003 07:06:53 PM · #6 |
Depends on if you went the artsy route. Artsy photos don't seem to get too how of a score. If it a decent clear photo they seem to give out higher scores.
Not to worry because most of the scores would probably eliminated because of the 20% rule.
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10/12/2003 07:14:15 PM · #7 |
| I know I am going to regret saying this later but around here the stale studio stuff seems to do better than the real art. |
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10/12/2003 07:16:59 PM · #8 |
I don't even know what real art is, therefore I can't create it with my camera.
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10/12/2003 07:26:51 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
I know I am going to regret saying this later but around here the stale studio stuff seems to do better than the real art. |
With the urban landscape challenge I figured a ton of building so I went the artsy route and being punished. A couple of people understood what I was trying to do. Yeah,10 comments(most ever).
Message edited by author 2003-10-12 19:34:24.
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10/12/2003 07:50:08 PM · #10 |
I think it's a proven fact that, in this arena, stock type photos do better in most cases. There is a reason for this that is quite simple. We have a very diverse group of participants coming from different cultures and different backgrounds. What is 'artsy' to one may be complete garbage to another. There is nothing wrong with trying to get outside the box with your thoughts and photography. In most cases, unless you have some universal hook in your photo, you will not create large amounts of appeal across the entire voter base. It is possible to break the cultural barrier. I know this to be true. I also know that it takes more than just a mediocre attempt to pull it off.
I also like 'artistic' photography. I would love to be participating in a group that enjoyed more of that as a whole.
Your 'stale studio shots' have merit also. You see them in magazines and other periodicals, as well as billboards and most forms of advertising every day. Maybe this is the key to why the 'artsy' stuff isn't so popular. Maybe the majority of the voters don't spend much time in art galleries contemplating the deeper meaning in photographs. They do read magazines and watch tv though...
just some thoughts...
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10/12/2003 10:03:22 PM · #11 |
Something I learned early on here is that you can shoot for a high score or you can shoot for yourself. I've chosen to shoot for me... Next week I have an "Exposed" shot that I think is wonderful, but I know it will score somewhere between a high 3 and a mid 4... This low expectation will make next week very nice for me because all th "too grainy" and "not sharp focus" comments will slide off me like water off a duck... I'm living for the 2 or 3 people that will see what I see in this image...
"Art" (whatever that is) is not the same as massive general appeal...
Note : This also gives me a good excuse for a sub 5 average :)
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10/13/2003 04:33:42 AM · #12 |
Funny how so many people use the word 'artsy' in replace of Sh*t.
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10/13/2003 05:18:18 AM · #13 |
Referring back to the first post in the thread, on voting ....
Don't forget that it is fair if people vote differently, as long as that one person does so for all photos.
For instance, I may vote and have an average of 6, for instance. Woohoo, I vote high, EVERYONE "benefits".
Someone else may vote low, have an average of say 3. Owwwww :( They vote low, EVERUONE "suffers".
Voting higher or lower than the average voter only influences the results of the competition if you are either not consistent or else only vote partially on a challenge.
I still think the voting system here is about as fair as you are realistically going to get. |
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10/13/2003 05:23:29 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by jonpink:
Funny how so many people use the word 'artsy' in replace of Sh*t. |
I completely agree with this. It seems a number of people have a fairly contrived view of what 'art' is; and it's usually related to a photo not getting a high score. |
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10/13/2003 06:36:57 AM · #15 |
This is basically a cut and paste of a message I left in another discussion. Its sill relevant here I think.
I am starting to think that some (not all) people that frequent this site are just habitual wingers. Between the âwhy am I only getting fivesâ (4.7) set of people, the âhow dare you criticize my American flag pictureâ and âhow could my pic get 6 ones?â Iâm at a loss why these people still frequent this site.
I reckon they should start up a new site of their own, this site shall: -
1. Always appreciate your outstanding skills as a photographer.
2. Will always recognize that your picture is of superior quality than the pictures you think are of a poor quality and vote accordingly.
3. Always recognize that a picture of an American flag no mater how boring, bad or just plainly been flogged to death is always worth a 10.
4. Agrees with you that anyone that gives a low score (not me) for an American flag picture is an anti American, non-patriotic, freedom-hating terrorist that wants to do you harm.
5. Anyone that submits a âsnapshotâ shall be dragged up before the snap shot police and given the cat o nine tails for having wasted your time during the voting process.
6. Finally this new site should be flexible enough to change their voting system every week as to allow everyone to have high scores all the time.
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10/13/2003 06:47:54 AM · #16 |
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10/13/2003 06:50:16 AM · #17 |
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10/13/2003 09:20:47 AM · #18 |
Good replies everyone. Thanks. I was just venting a little up there.
I am having fun, and I will have to wait to get my portfolio built up a little more so I can see the areas I am improving in. Heck, I only entered 4 challenges so far. I am just impatient!
This post below seemed to put things into perspective for me.
Originally posted by DebN2003:
Seems like a good way to ensure fairness. I outlined my voting criteria on my photographer's profile page. Still in certain challenges there is a majority or a derth of well executed photographs my tendency is to grade on a curve. This could be what you're experiencing -- not as much what you are entering, but the overall quality of all entries.
For example: In the Urban Landscape competition I gave out more fives than usual for 2 reasons. 1)There were a huge number of entries and 2)There was a large number of high quality photos. So I felt higher marks had to be reserved for the best of the best. Conversely I also gave out more 8's through 10's as well. |
Thanks DebN2003! |
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10/13/2003 09:42:36 AM · #19 |
Surely we are judging the image as a whole, not compared to others in the challenge, thus your voting is unfair.
So I felt higher marks had to be reserved for the best of the best
Why not give a high mark for a good photo, doesn't matter if you give 100 10's does it?
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10/13/2003 09:56:01 AM · #20 |
I understand where you are coming from but I look at it as a way of determining how I need to improve. I have several 4.5's to 4.9's but I am not crying about the whole issue. I appreciate the comments I do get but I will continue to grow. Everyone who submits a photo here is good in their own way and I salute everyone. The world is not fair and if it ever gets fair we would not be having these discussions. Roll on and good luck.
Message edited by author 2003-10-13 09:56:41. |
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10/13/2003 01:40:43 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I don't even know what real art is, therefore I can't create it with my camera. |
Mmmm.. I think to disagree with you in this case John.
IMO Art has nothing to do with knowledge and your statement helped me to look into it.
Again IMO, Art is just one thing: expressing yourself at the highest grade possible. By doing so, you will also express all the interactions you had with the many entities that make-up our universe.
Such a level of expression will always find somebody, if not everybody, who will admire it.
Ultimately, Art is rare exactly because it is so difficult to express ourselves. And it has always been so.
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10/13/2003 02:56:35 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by glimpses:
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I don't even know what real art is, therefore I can't create it with my camera. |
Mmmm.. I think to disagree with you in this case John.
IMO Art has nothing to do with knowledge and your statement helped me to look into it.
Again IMO, Art is just one thing: expressing yourself at the highest grade possible. By doing so, you will also express all the interactions you had with the many entities that make-up our universe.
Such a level of expression will always find somebody, if not everybody, who will admire it.
Ultimately, Art is rare exactly because it is so difficult to express ourselves. And it has always been so. |
Being inquisitive about the nature and meaning of art is a healthy stance, IMO, and a profitable one. I have, however, no hope (or desire!) to ever resolve the issue.
John's seemingly naive statement provokes probing, not analysis. It has been my experience, that all too easy an answer, especially ultimately, ultimately leads outward, away from the gist.
I also question the view that the purpose or motor of art is, specifically, to express ourselves... |
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10/13/2003 03:07:56 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
I know I am going to regret saying this later but around here the stale studio stuff seems to do better than the real art. |
Would you care to define what the 'real art' is then ?
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10/13/2003 03:09:04 PM · #24 |
My statment here was too unclear.. lol... I know what art is when I see it. When I see it and deem it as 'art', I don't know that anyone else will agree.
So, my purpose can't be to create art for others.
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10/13/2003 03:12:49 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
My statment here was too unclear.. lol... I know what art is when I see it. When I see it and deem it as 'art', I don't know that anyone else will agree.
So, my purpose can't be to create art for others. |
Lol, this one is even fuzzier, John. |
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