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12/24/2003 06:16:55 PM · #126 |
Originally posted by Gringo:
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
It's written clear enough to me. I don't understand all the clash about it. |
Ditto.
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12/24/2003 06:18:26 PM · #127 |
I look forward to submiting my original, if i ever make the top 10 again.
I trust DPC with my pics.
If they break copyright laws they have more to lose than me.
Great idea..
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12/24/2003 06:21:52 PM · #128 |
Has anyone just looked at the very bottom of THIS page? It is even written there. How do you protect your prints...it has your name and copyright on it, not a big giant explanation and agreement on it, right?
THis has gone on long enough, so, As my grandpa use to say, shit or get off the pot. |
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12/24/2003 06:23:45 PM · #129 |
And finally, by agreeing to the Terms & Conditions of the site, you also agreed to abide by the Challenge Rules (should you choose to submit to a challenge), with one of those rules being to submit an unaltered original of your photo upon request.
Exactly, and those how submit full quality files have no rights under the current agreement. I also notice that the two owners of the site haven’t posted a picture, not to say they haven’t been around, since late 2002. So, who IS running this site since I can't get a straight official answer from anyone?
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12/24/2003 06:25:20 PM · #130 |
Has anyone just looked at the very bottom of THIS page?
Under current copyright laws, that is only the content displayed on the site, not the full quality images you submit under the "proof of validity" rule. |
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12/24/2003 06:28:28 PM · #131 |
Originally posted by deafwolf:
Under current copyright laws, that is only the content displayed on the site, not the full quality images you submit under the "proof of validity" rule. |
Handing over an image to someone does not suddenly invalidate your copyright.
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12/24/2003 06:29:26 PM · #132 |
Originally posted by deafwolf:
I also notice that the two owners of the site haven’t posted a picture, not to say they haven’t been around, since late 2002. So, who IS running this site since I can't get a straight official answer from anyone? |
Drew and Langdon, who I'm sure would love to be able to have the time to submit their own pictures, were they not running this site in addition to having fulltime jobs, are the adminstrators of this site. I'm sure they would be glad to give you an official answer or discuss any issues you want to bring forth...during a period of time which is not Christmas Eve. Give them some time and I'm sure they'll help you. |
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12/24/2003 06:30:09 PM · #133 |
| Paul, I've taught copyright laws and copyright violation costs. I completely understand what is fact. |
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12/24/2003 06:31:50 PM · #134 |
| Sorry mk, like I said, I'm not a hardass. I understand about Christmas Eve, so I'll drop it, for now. Merry Christmas and all my best wishes to you and your's. :) |
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12/24/2003 06:32:17 PM · #135 |
Originally posted by deafwolf:
Paul, I've taught copyright laws and copyright violation costs. I completely understand what is fact. |
So, am I wrong?
Let's say I send an image to the site council for validation. Do I:
1) Lose my ownership of copyright?
2) Grant DPC and/or its staff copyright?
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12/24/2003 06:34:06 PM · #136 |
| Dumb maybe, but what does the word "all" mean in the sentence at the bottom? |
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12/24/2003 09:39:03 PM · #137 |
//www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html
WHO CAN CLAIM COPYRIGHT
Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who created the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright. |
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12/26/2003 09:41:44 AM · #138 |
Personally... I would never send anyone a RAW photo file to anyone. I just recently won a photo contest. Not digital, but conventional. I won a Nikon camera for 2nd place. They never asked me to send the actual negative in the mail for verification that the actual photo was mine, but they did request a summary on how I made the shot, inlcuding a very reduced size of the actual scanned negative, that was done on a transparency adapter, which in result, would not be able to produce even a quality 3X5 wallet print. Their reason for this was to PROTECT ME FROM COPYRIGHT FRAUD.
I did everything they asked, and got the camera.
I would never send a RAW file for a 1st place "RIBBON", let alone anything in the top 10, that does not give me anything either. First of all... you don't get a prize on this site. You get a "ribbon". Pretty much adds up to bragging rights... which is cool... but I would never send in a RAW photo to somebody I don't know and trust, just to get a "RIBBON" or bragging rights. I would happily take the DQ, and then be happy to let people know how I made the shot, which is good enough "bragging rights" for me.
Vincent
Message edited by author 2003-12-26 09:45:29. |
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12/26/2003 09:47:35 AM · #139 |
| Hey Paul, how a copyright is established or regeistered is not the issue, its the protection of that copyright. *grin* |
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12/26/2003 10:57:06 AM · #140 |
If all they need is the exif data for the pic as proof, can't one just send them a low resolution photograph that has been saved in save as (not save for web) in Photoshop? All the exif data are preserved when you save a picture this way. They can still have the proof of date etc. and you still have your original high resolution file and your sanity.
Message edited by author 2003-12-26 10:58:49. |
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12/26/2003 10:59:27 AM · #141 |
Originally posted by deafwolf:
Hey Paul, how a copyright is established or regeistered is not the issue, its the protection of that copyright. *grin* |
And our problem is how to run an honest competition if we aren't allowed to check if the winners are following the rules. You are more than welcome to offer a practical suggestion for doing that. We are not incognizant of your concerns, although I find them (in this case) to be rather hypothetical. And you DO have a legal agreement with a reggistered business entity; it's not like I'm asking you to just email the file to me .... |
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12/26/2003 11:00:34 AM · #142 |
Originally posted by flip89:
If all they need is the exif data for the pic as proof, can't one just send them a low resolution photograph that has been saved in save as (not save for web) in Photoshop? All the exif data are preserved when you save a picture this way. They can still have the proof of date etc. and you still have your original high resolution file and your sanity. |
We only need EXIF to prove the date. But we need to see the actual, original pixels in order to see if the picture has been edited outside of the rules.
Message edited by author 2003-12-26 11:00:54. |
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12/26/2003 11:09:33 AM · #143 |
Holy cow. I've been away from the site for a day because of the holiday so I haven't been following this thread. I still haven't read it all because I'm about to head out the door, but I had to chime in. By the reaction of some of the folks in this thread, you'd think we are asking for their first-born child.
For reference, every submission to DigitalPhotoContest.com requires "the original, unmodified digital camera image" be uploaded at the time your entry is submitted. And they have daily photo contests. So it isn't like DPC is doing something "wild and crazy" here by validating the winning entries.
If you don't like the rules here, don't submit here. Simple as that.
(I'm really tempted to lock this thread.) |
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12/26/2003 11:16:56 AM · #144 |
Paul, I'm in complete agreement with you on both points. I feel you should be able to verify the image to run a fair competition. I also feel there should be some ownership guidelines set up as the raw image is being passed. When I add a soundtrack to a film, I have to sign agreements with the production company and director(s) before the “raw” cut of the film is sent to me. It's all just business, nothing more. Here, below is an example of ownership clause from one of my contracts that could be added to the terms to possibly help, or at least a starting point. Thanks also for your professional attitude Paul.
6.3. Ownership. You shall at all times retain all right, title and interest in and to the Artist Materials provided by you hereunder (including, without limitation, the copyrights therein and thereto), subject to the non-exclusive rights granted to DPChallenge.com under this agreement. You are free to grant similar rights to others during and after the Term of this agreement. You have the right to terminate this agreement at any time by notifying us in writing (for the purpose of this agreement, e-mail is considered as "in writing"). We agree to terminate this agreement within five business days of our actual receipt of this notice. Termination of this agreement will terminate all rights granted for all submitted Artist Material under the terms of this agreement. |
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12/26/2003 11:22:06 AM · #145 |
Eddy, they already have an ownership clause.
Copyright:
DPC was founded on the principle that photographs belong to the photographers who took them. At the bottom of every page is the statement, "All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers. Digital photos may not be used without their permission." Your photos will only be used for the purposes of the contest and the archives of Photos of the Day. All images are bordered with the same border to give aesthetic uniformity, but also to mark them recognizably as DPC submissions. |
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12/26/2003 02:57:10 PM · #146 |
I'm new here, and just stumbled onto this thread. I have not read many of the posts, but I might later, maybe this weekend. I also have not fully reviewed the site/user agreement or any other agreement for this site pertaining to copyright issues and the like (I'll probably read more if I become a member and continue to participate).
It would seem to me that the site would want: 1) a non-exclusive (and royalty free) license to post the submitted photos on the website with regard to the challenges and in the archives; and 2) a non-exclusive (and royalty free) license to make and post on this website thumbnails of the submitted photos (as these may be considered derivative works and the copyright owner has the exclusive right to make derivative works). Offhand I cannot think of any other right the site would need or want, but I haven't thought much about this.
With all that said, is there a provision in some agreement for this website that someone contends transfers some or all copyright ownership in a photo by submitting a copy of a modified version for a challenge, or by submitting a copy of the original to the site council for verification? I'm not suggesting that there isn't such a provision, but if there is a specific provision that is troubling people, I'd appreciate it if someone would point me to it so I don't have to search the entire website!
Thanks!
P.S. Nothing in this post constitutes legal advice or expressly or impliedly creates or intends to create an attorney/client relationship in any form whatsoever. |
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12/26/2003 03:11:37 PM · #147 |
Matt, no there is nothing about giving up rights in the sites terms. In fact, it's a great site. I've learned a lot about the digital world here which is why I joined. The discussion I'm having is nothing more than addressing the concerns of the top 10 winners which have to provide the actual image file, which again is not a problem in itself, but the terms provides no safeguards against providing such a file as far as ownership or duration of terms with your work.
The site is top notch though and I would still recommend it to my friends. The people in charge are smart and for the most part very professional with my experience so far. |
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12/26/2003 03:49:07 PM · #148 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
//www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html
WHO CAN CLAIM COPYRIGHT
Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who created the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright. |
You can sue for more when it's registered, but you'lll still get quite a bit without registering with the copyright office. It's well worth it.
The problem I have is that it is up to you to "discover" improper usage. And since this is a global site, it would be hard for to catch someone selling my photo as one of theirs in Britain or India... ;D |
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12/26/2003 04:11:55 PM · #149 |
it is your work to keep track of who's using your files and where.
most other contests i have read the submission rules to mention ( if its the case ) that by submitting the photo you are granting the contest holder full right to use, reproduce, and publish your image. in so taking some of your rights away - and preventing you from suing them for entering a contest they offered to you.
i see no mention of anything like that here, and would feel fine submitting a photo for review - i would ask that the original file be deleted after review upon submitting it.
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12/26/2003 04:28:27 PM · #150 |
Originally posted by MeThoS:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
//www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html
WHO CAN CLAIM COPYRIGHT
Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who created the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright. |
You can sue for more when it's registered, but you'lll still get quite a bit without registering with the copyright office. It's well worth it.
The problem I have is that it is up to you to "discover" improper usage. And since this is a global site, it would be hard for to catch someone selling my photo as one of theirs in Britain or India... ;D |
You can't actually sue at all without registration, although your attorney might well work out a settlement.
The only people who would have access to the original files are the SC members, so you really have only a few places to look ... in a legal action we can be easily traced via our ISP.
And as soup mentions, the originals will likely be deleted as soon as the photo is proved or DQ'd, to save storage space if nothing else.
Why doesn't the EXIF format allow for a user-programmable field to include photographer/copyright info ... or does it? |
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